9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Orion » 09 Nov 2015, 15:55

How do we make him S8?
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 09 Nov 2015, 17:04

He did have a 25pt Magic Weapon option but they've just removed it. That said, S7 should get the job done and Treemen have always been good vs chariots. Catching some of the faster stuff might be tricky.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 09 Nov 2015, 21:02

Just saw the new edition. So no magic weapons for mr avatar and one less strength for the wardancer. Both are still good options though. Also no innate defense for wild riders so back to 4+ with shield, although they did gain an initiative which is really helpful against other elves and chaos warriors!

Sad to see armour piercing dissappear from magical arrows :'(
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 09 Nov 2015, 22:02

Yeah, they seem to be scaling back shooting a bit and trying to buff combat. On reflection EG retain a little offense if they stay in the woods. I like the new Acorn. King's Guard look like HE elites, minus the defensive advantages. Wondering about Razor Standard on Treekin BSB but don't know if it still exists! Half way through the rules, I already have a shed-load of notes on differences.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Billthesurly » 10 Nov 2015, 04:21

I just printed the dog-gone thing out on Saturday. Now it's been supplanted? Great. Back to the drawing board. They'd better not get in the habit of doing this too much or they'll piss people off. Enough of it and they'll just go away. That said, I DO understand that some tweaking is in order. At least it's all free and not in some 35 dollar hardback book that we have to buy. (and that only gets updated every 6 years or so) :thumbsup:

Losing AP off of the fey arrows kinda bites but at least we can choose to use them or not. So when a foe gets close we can hit them with the AP arrows instead of the fey ones if we want to. And now the Wildriders (Wild Hunters) are about exactly the way I remember them from 8th ed. I don't miss giving a Treeman (of any kind) magic weapons because we never could before. All of the point cost shifts don't really hit me because I haven't played with 9th age yet.

I guess I still overall like what I'm seeing. No, definitely like what I'm seeing.
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 10 Nov 2015, 09:22

The rules are still in the testing stage so I think they plan to revise them a few times for a while. I would imagine they will reach a set form some months before the ETC (in August) at least, to allow teams to prepare. I finished reading the Core rules last night. Similar to 8th but more exhaustive (they don't want to issue FAQ's). My first impressions of the WE list are largely remaining, though a few things have become clearer. Still have to read all the Lores and Army Books!
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 10 Nov 2015, 14:09

Billthesurly wrote:I would like to hear about the really big, game altering changes in advance rather than stumbling across them in play.

I've put up my own take on these in this thread Bill:

viewtopic.php?f=43&p=354802#p354802

Edit: I thought Forest Walker only gave AP in combat inside woods. On closer reading it looks like it's always on. So the whole army always has AP (1) in combat. Could be huge, especially for Treekin for example.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Coyle_Ravane » 17 Nov 2015, 22:31

My first impression has been very positive. Highlights being:

- 4+ armor save spearmen hitting most enemies on 2+ with ap.
- greataxe infantry 2 attacks hitting on 2+ at S5 with ap? Yes please.
- sisters cheaper as non spellcasting harassment unit, and gaining multiple shots. Spellcasting option still solid.
- S4 bladedancers. they can actually kill stuff again.
- falcon riders pleasantly buffed.
- dryads back to s4 with skirmish option. might use them again now.
- kindreds. especially dancer and guardian both very good. viable combat characters at last.
- treefolk elder as bsb could be a very useful option. Can't help contemplating bsb with "fight in extra ranks" banner leading a 4x3 formation of treefolk.... 34 treekin attacks + 4 elder attacks....
- riders being able to trade bow for a shield, wanted this in the last 2 editions.

As for negative, well, we lost our arcane items, nothing else really bothering me.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 17 Nov 2015, 22:53

Eternal Guard still don't look quite strong enough to me, though there are things they can do. I believe King's Guard don't get the +1 to hit, losing ASL instead. They are better than before but at 14pts basic just don't match up to the HE equivalents IMHO.

Coyle_Ravane wrote:viable combat characters at last.


:)

We can argue about that but they've certainly improved. The Treekin BSB is very tempting, both from a modelling and a gaming PoV. Third rank on Treekin is interesting and on King's Guard looks like a no-brainer. Shooting definitely took a slight nerf but nothing huge I reckon.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Coyle_Ravane » 18 Nov 2015, 00:09

Just realised the treefolk elder doesn't have the option for any magic items, so no magic banner :(

By viable, I don't mean I expect our melee characters to be especially brilliant, just that they won't be actively bad any more. A captain with guardian kindred, light armor, shield and spear already looks pretty decent for his cost

You are right of course, the kings guard would be hitting on 3+, but it still looks pretty good, especially compared to 8th, and I found they worked even then.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 18 Nov 2015, 09:27

I believe BSB's inherantly are able to take a magic banner per core rules but I'm not 100% on this.

My Stag Lord was playable under 8th. King's Guard look playable under 9th. The difference I think is that we have to work hard for them to shine, whereas Wild Riders were and are idiot-proof.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby PointedDoom » 25 Nov 2015, 02:35

I've been looking over the books and I love what I see....one thing did catch my attention and unfortunately I have overthunk it. The ward dance has a -1 Str. To whom does it apply. As far as I can tell it dosn't specify. At first I thought it was the dancer, then I thought it was the attacker, then perhaps both. I've settled I think on the first one but i'm not sure anymore. Any thoughts on this? Other than that I just want to play it so bad, trying to convince my cousin to carve out time.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Rafiki » 25 Nov 2015, 09:50

Its the wardancers, i cant possibly see how you can be in doubt
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 25 Nov 2015, 12:51

As some kind of Ambassador :D for Sylvan Elves here on asrai.org I'd like to say some things about the 9th Age's Sylvan elves.

Billthesurly wrote:I just printed the dog-gone thing out on Saturday. Now it's been supplanted? Great. Back to the drawing board. They'd better not get in the habit of doing this too much or they'll piss people off. Enough of it and they'll just go away. That said, I DO understand that some tweaking is in order. At least it's all free and not in some 35 dollar hardback book that we have to buy. (and that only gets updated every 6 years or so) :thumbsup:

Yup, mr. Bill, you will have to get used to it. Your drawing board might be re-visited few times in near future. Thing is we are in Beta stage now. More or less things are as they will be. Only minor tweaks are expected, but as an insider I can confirm there might be even some major stuff going on. :ninja: In next two to four weeks time we should have our Sylvan Elves book done. At least playable rules without background fluff and art which will come later. What we need desperately, and seems like we never have enough, is the playtesting feedback. So guys, if you have any, please provide us with it. I already gave mr. Mollesvinet's BR links, but I bet I can get more. You can go there or you can give them to me, or get it somewhere here on the forum. I hope I won't miss them. We need every little opinion and experience we can get; from your opinion about one unit, over different combos and army lists, to whole battle reports. Everything counts.

Here's a little picture how brewing things work at 9th Age.
You have community of players who are discussing about their armies. There is a team of Army Support guys for each army who are in contact with other players from the community (I'm one of those Army Support guys, yeeey!). We provide opinions, suggestions, proposals, reports, etc. to another team called Armybook Committee which task is to create rules for designated armies. Then, those rules are presented to Rules Team which decides what to do with the propositions, how to implement them into existing rules and what to polish up more to be implemented. After the rules has been accepted by Rules Team, there is one last final step - Balance Team go across the whole thing comparing armies and their rules all together and advising Rules Team and Armybook Committee Team back what to do, what to boost, what to nerf.

Few answers you are looking for:
Coyle_Ravane wrote:Just realised the treefolk elder doesn't have the option for any magic items, so no magic banner

We are taking care of it now. Some people are playing Elder with magic banner allowed, some people don't. Guys from Committee already said it should have magical banner, we are waiting for confirmation from Rules Team. It is a bit fluff killer, but overall okay.

Phil Rossiter wrote:My Stag Lord was playable under 8th. King's Guard look playable under 9th. The difference I think is that we have to work hard for them to shine, whereas Wild Riders were and are idiot-proof.

As things are at the moment, both Stag Lord and King's Guard gonna get some changes. But I have to add to your statement, mr. Phil, Wild Huntsmen maybe are idiot-proof and auto-include, but they have pretty good alternatives. At least that's what I think.

PointedDoom wrote:I've been looking over the books and I love what I see....one thing did catch my attention and unfortunately I have overthunk it. The ward dance has a -1 Str. To whom does it apply. As far as I can tell it dosn't specify. At first I thought it was the dancer, then I thought it was the attacker, then perhaps both. I've settled I think on the first one but i'm not sure anymore. Any thoughts on this? Other than that I just want to play it so bad, trying to convince my cousin to carve out time.

That dance applies to dancers only. They get 3+ Ward save, but -1S. Don't forget those guys are S4 now. ;)
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby PointedDoom » 26 Nov 2015, 06:29

Thanks just got myself wrapped up there for a bit. Some of those changes will include Orion yes... :drool: would hate to lose him as he is my favorite model by far.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 26 Nov 2015, 09:16

PointedDoom wrote:Thanks just got myself wrapped up there for a bit. Some of those changes will include Orion yes... :drool: would hate to lose him as he is my favorite model by far.

Special Characters will have to wait a bit. After everything else is finished and ready, Special Characters will reappear.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 27 Nov 2015, 22:18

Hi Yuri,

I have an 8th tournament this weekend, but after this I intend to change more or less completely to 9th edition. I will try to make battle reports and share impressions from both sides of the battlefield as much as possible.

(Although losing my S8 wardancer hero and S8 treeman lord makes me think it is better to keep quiet about the overpowered stuff! Haha)
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 28 Nov 2015, 18:02

:thumbsup:

I already shared your battle report, mr. Mollesvinet, with 9th Age community and I'm looking forward for some more.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby PointedDoom » 28 Nov 2015, 23:42

Been reading more in the new brb (going to have to find a new acronym as it isn't actually red. DEB yes digital edition book.....OOOOO DERB Digital Edition Rule Book yes DERB. Ok I have a terrible sense of humor.) I play against dwarves and such that have war machines. the warmachine misfire chart says to role a d6 and consult the chart. that i get....how does one get 0 or less on a D6? I swear i've looked up and down the whole thing several times and I cant figure it out. Anyone have any ideas.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Billthesurly » 29 Nov 2015, 06:28

Red? I always thought it was the "Basic Rule Book". Now you're telling me it was the "Big Red Book"? Over three years on this site and I still don't know what all's going on.

So I like DERB too. :thumbsup:

The only thing I can think of is that there must be some weapons that take extra modifiers to their misfire rolls - probably found in a specific army list. (Sounds like some Ork and Goblin type foolishness to me.)
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 29 Nov 2015, 09:51

Billthesurly wrote:The only thing I can think of is that there must be some weapons that take extra modifiers to their misfire rolls - probably found in a specific army list. (Sounds like some Ork and Gobblin type foolishness to me.)

This.

I think maybe firethrowers and such.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Niedfaru » 29 Nov 2015, 12:32

Phil Rossiter wrote:
Billthesurly wrote:The only thing I can think of is that there must be some weapons that take extra modifiers to their misfire rolls - probably found in a specific army list. (Sounds like some Ork and Gobblin type foolishness to me.)

This.

I think maybe firethrowers and such.


Exactly so:

DERB p65 wrote:If a '6' was rolled, the Flame Thrower has misfired: the shot is discarded, and the Flame Thrower must roll on the Misfire table with a -1 modifier.


There may be others in specific books too.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby PointedDoom » 29 Nov 2015, 20:06

Thanks for the reply's, i'm the go to for my friends when there is a question about the rules so i have to figure them out before any questions are asked. Especially since my friends girlfriend is a bit of a rules lawyer she once tried to deny me Forrest strider in poisonous woods because the dangerous terrain test in the description was from bugs and snakes and such and not actually the trees. I'm not trying to nit pick the rules just trying to get ahead of my friends so i'll have answers. I still havn't figured out the vampire covanents supernatural reflexes rule for example.

Never mind I figured out the supernatural reflexes apparently it is the rule lightning reflexes and the name hasn't been changed in parts of the rules.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 02 Dec 2015, 11:43

Yuri wrote:We are taking care of it now. Some people are playing Elder with magic banner allowed, some people don't. Guys from Committee already said it should have magical banner, we are waiting for confirmation from Rules Team. It is a bit fluff killer, but overall okay.

More on this in action:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=28955&p=354911#p354911
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 02 Dec 2015, 15:19

Phil Rossiter wrote:
Yuri wrote:We are taking care of it now. Some people are playing Elder with magic banner allowed, some people don't. Guys from Committee already said it should have magical banner, we are waiting for confirmation from Rules Team. It is a bit fluff killer, but overall okay.

More on this in action:

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=43 ... 11#p354911

Believe it or not, Rules Team are still undecided about this matter, so I can't even tell what is going to be with Treefolk BSB. I am aware of the situation, and there is probable buff coming to Treefolk (they are getting S5 back, it seems). So BSB with magic banner would be over powered, I agree. Especially if they get that S5 back (this is not decided yet).

Anyway, here is some of the possible changes coming next week. I say possible, because some of those aren't 100% sure. In any case, I'd like to report some of your opinions back to 9th Age teams.
Eisenheinrich wrote:I’ll keep the list of changes on which RT and SE ABC have agreed upon so far updated here in this post:

Week 1:
All Treants, Matriarch and Dryads lose AP(1)
Avatar of Nature is -1 BS (BS5)
Dryad Matriarch’s point costs increase from 65 to 75 pts
Blade Dancers lose option for shields
King’s Guard is split from Forest Guardians (Forest Guardians stay exactly as they are, King’s Guard are moved to Special, have access to a 50 pt magical standard, are max. 30 models and cost 13 pts)
Sisterhood receive Poisoned Attacks also for their shooting attacks, but they lose MS(2) by default and base point costs are increased to 120 pts
Falcon Riders are 5 pts cheaper per model
Also expect name changes all across the board (e.g. we got (High) Druids now, and Kestrel Knights and Briar Maidens, etc. ;) . The background team did a pretty good job there :thumbsup: )
Week 2:
Treefolk Elder and Treefolk (aka Thicket Shepherd and Thicket Beasts): Stubborn in Forests
Dryads: may add up to 1230 models; Units of max. 15 models may take Skirmishers special rule (10 pts)
Blade Dancers: may add up to 1510 models
Grove Riders (probably): may add up to 510 models
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