9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 02 Dec 2015, 17:12

I've got a game lined up against Thomas (Mollesvinet) on Saturday Yuri but I suspect we'll be using the rules as they stand. I'll be rocking High Elves. We will give feedback.

I think S5 basic would be OK for Treefolk but if so I'd remove AP and the option to buff to S6 with the Aspect. Point costs are important too of course. No way would I give Stubborn in woods, combat res is the limiting factor on these guys. Make them better fighters (S5, banners, musician) not this.

Other changes look less impactful. The max 15 Skirmishing Dryads is interesting, given that the winner of the tournament discussed in my link had a unit of 24.

"Blade Dancers lose option for shields"

Thomas will approve!

:)
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby PointedDoom » 03 Dec 2015, 20:33

Yuri wrote:
Phil Rossiter wrote:
Yuri wrote:We are taking care of it now. Some people are playing Elder with magic banner allowed, some people don't. Guys from Committee already said it should have magical banner, we are waiting for confirmation from Rules Team. It is a bit fluff killer, but overall okay.

More on this in action:

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=43 ... 11#p354911

Believe it or not, Rules Team are still undecided about this matter, so I can't even tell what is going to be with Treefolk BSB. I am aware of the situation, and there is probable buff coming to Treefolk (they are getting S5 back, it seems). So BSB with magic banner would be over powered, I agree. Especially if they get that S5 back (this is not decided yet).

Anyway, here is some of the possible changes coming next week. I say possible, because some of those aren't 100% sure. In any case, I'd like to report some of your opinions back to 9th Age teams.
Eisenheinrich wrote:I’ll keep the list of changes on which RT and SE ABC have agreed upon so far updated here in this post:

Week 1:
All Treants, Matriarch and Dryads lose AP(1)
Avatar of Nature is -1 BS (BS5)
Dryad Matriarch’s point costs increase from 65 to 75 pts
Blade Dancers lose option for shields
King’s Guard is split from Forest Guardians (Forest Guardians stay exactly as they are, King’s Guard are moved to Special, have access to a 50 pt magical standard, are max. 30 models and cost 13 pts)
Sisterhood receive Poisoned Attacks also for their shooting attacks, but they lose MS(2) by default and base point costs are increased to 120 pts
Falcon Riders are 5 pts cheaper per model
Also expect name changes all across the board (e.g. we got (High) Druids now, and Kestrel Knights and Briar Maidens, etc. ;) . The background team did a pretty good job there :thumbsup: )
Week 2:
Treefolk Elder and Treefolk (aka Thicket Shepherd and Thicket Beasts): Stubborn in Forests
Dryads: may add up to 1230 models; Units of max. 15 models may take Skirmishers special rule (10 pts)
Blade Dancers: may add up to 1510 models
Grove Riders (probably): may add up to 510 models


I wouldn't care for stubborn in forests for the treefolk. They got back their 5+ ward save that they used to have and with the addition of aspects can be made even stronger, add that to the fight in extra ranks magic banner and I don't think they need stubborn. Additionally if special rules are added to them there might be the (completely reasonable) inclination to increase their points. I would like that to stay where it is if at all possible. I remember when...treefolk were 65 points per model considering where they are now I really like them. I'm not so fond of the 15 model limit on the dryads for skirmishing as that would pretty much force me to get the musician aspect to give my dryads any sort of mobility option. Not that all there cant be a limitation but perhaps make it so that at least two units of dryads can take skirmishing. Everything else I'm perfectly fine with though.

I would like to make a separate note on our new magic items (which I ALMOST all love) the great weapon of skillful defense particularly. I feel that the increase of WS while sounding good is of minimal use as with a WS of 7/6 we already hit most everyone on base 3 already. The addition of one WS doesn't really effect that and defensively there is no effect as we will be hit on 4+ by anyone with a WS of 3 or 4 regardless.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Jossebuschman » 04 Dec 2015, 11:01

I will comment my findings in more detail later, I just want to say two things really quickly:

I totally agree that Bladedancers shouldn't have shields, so removing them is fine. But I do think they should have ahw instead of two attacks on their profile. This would give them I7 which is high, but not too high imo. They are Wardancers and should be able to hit before any other elf, except characters.
Note that I have not fully read the other books, so if there are no units with I6 in there just ignore me :P.

I love the fact that you determine Forest walker at the start of the turn. This really accentuates the forest ambush aspect of the Wood Elves.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 04 Dec 2015, 11:48

Jossebuschman wrote:Note that I have not fully read the other books, so if there are no units with I6 in there just ignore me :P.

High Elf book at least is full of them.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 08 Dec 2015, 23:15

Once again, new rules are out! Time for Beta 0.10 version.

Here you can find some textwall about the new rules added and changed in general:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php? ... #post97713

Here is the link to the new Rules book:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/pdf/the-ni ... 0-10-0.pdf

Here is the link to the Paths of Magic:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/pdf/the-ni ... 0-10-0.pdf

And here are the new updated rules for SYLVAN ELVES:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/pdf/the-ni ... 0-10-0.pdf

You can check out all things together here, just like the rest of the army books:
http://www.the-ninth-age.com/index.php?simple-page/

Cheers!
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Billthesurly » 09 Dec 2015, 02:57

Whoa hot damn - we got S4 arrows at short range again! Lassez le bon temps rouler!
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Jossebuschman » 09 Dec 2015, 16:59

Some nice things, but also some disappointing things.

Things I like:
-I really like the Black arrows, a throwback to the 6th ed book it seems :D.
-Cheapass archers/Sentinels
-No more shields for wardancers, +1S for Wardancer kindred
-No more ap for Dryads, this seemed a bit much

Things I don't like:
-Forest walker at the start of the turn was great, start of cc is a bit disappointing.
-No more choice in fey arrows. While I like the black arrows, It would be good to have some choice in the matter. Archers and Sentinels only have one choice (And the latter not the one I want) and the rest have no option at all.
-Briar Maidens only seem worth it if you go for the champ and even then are really expensive. I don't really understand why they lost their ms(2) and don't have poison shots.

Some things are a bit unclear:
Are Hawthorn points magical? (compare unit entry Sentinel and armoury)
Do characters really have an option for a spear? Are they not supposed to be light lances?
Same goes for Sacred spear of Calderon.

Other than that I would like to say that you guys are doing an awesome job!
I'll post my opinions on the ninth age forum as well, but unfortunately cannot acces it at work.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Nerul » 01 Jan 2016, 17:39

heath riders, they are useless right now compared to our other core choices. it would be nice if they had something like black arrows. :tear:

"dark raiders can take Rxbow ( S3-AP1-MS2) for 3 points" :crazy:
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 02 Jan 2016, 00:12

I guess they are still the go-to option for a pure avoidance list, though how effective that is now I have no idea.

I'm trying to work out what you do with the the 3+ AS dudes. Small Ambushing units? Big bus to escort characters? Being Core helps of course. I suppose they have the advantage that they can count ranks (unlike Briar Maidens) whilst not being Frenzied (unlike Wild Huntsmen).
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Jossebuschman » 04 Jan 2016, 16:18

I suppose they have the advantage that they can count ranks


That's the only use I can see for them right now, as harrasers they are useless without some form of fey arrow. Sending in ten of them alongside a unit of bladedancers for instance pretty much guarantees breaking most units. At around two hundred points for ten of them including command group, they are not too expensive. I have tried them out and am really struggling with how cumbersome they are, as a big fan of msu (not avoidance, but cc msu), they take a lot of getting used to, but I think they can be valuable in this role. The have an added advantage that they will probably not die very fast to missile fire, because who in their right mind will shoot at a 3+ glade rider when there are a lot more expensive and scary things running around?

Compared to Wild hunters in the same role, they are much cheaper (for practically the same survivability) and like I said don't attract a lot of arrow fire (and if they do you don't care as much).

They also lose ambush when taking 3+ btw, so that's not an option.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Nerul » 04 Jan 2016, 23:00

their only real use in our army right now is the ambush, if you want ranks go with forest guards(they are op right now) or even dryads w/out skirmish.
just take a look at marauder horsemen and dark raiders and then compare them to our heath riders...
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 05 Jan 2016, 00:55

Jossebuschman wrote:not avoidance, but cc msu

I remember guys doing quite nicely with combinations of Dryads and MSU cav for example before the 6th edition army book.

Nerul wrote:if you want ranks go with forest guards(they are op right now).

Interesting, why is that? Ranked cav are normally a great fast character delivery system. WE cav characters look respectable now but perhaps not quite bleeding edge.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Nerul » 05 Jan 2016, 01:39

for example, take a unit of 25 full command and banner of amir and put them in a forest. they cost 305
WS:5 str:3 t:3 in:5 Sv:4 Ld :8, 10 points per model
spears (armour piercing-fight in extra rank,lethal..)
parry (it's pretty strong right now)
forest striders : (they never lose their Steadfast or Rank Bonus due to Terrain)
Lightning Reflexes:(ws:5 they usually hit on 2s at least against other core units)
Bodyguard:(you can make them stubborn)
u make 21 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to wound in 5 man formation,you keep your rank bonus always in combat ress, and you are steadfast or even stubborn in a forest)
10 points per model.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Nerul » 05 Jan 2016, 02:15

Phil Rossiter wrote:Interesting, why is that? Ranked cav are normally a great fast character delivery system. WE cav characters look respectable now but perhaps not quite bleeding edge.



it was good delivery system before the 9th age ( im only speaking for wood elves right now) .when we could pick our fights because of fast cav rule (we also had more than enough poison arrows to destroy annoying warmachines and small shooting units pretty fast). if you put your characters now in a unit like heath riders with t3 and sv3 your just giving your opponent free points imo.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 05 Jan 2016, 09:47

I feel Eternal Guard are decent. The issue with them has always been the S3. AP helps but to kill most tough enemy units (probably not Core) they need magic buffs, which are harder to get off now. I believe they have to use the Spear so can't parry. Steadfast can be key, Stubborn is better but it needs a fighting character in the unit which depends on an overall army build where this makes sense. Woods make a difference but can leave them a bit static. However, there are tricks like the Path of Nature spell.

I'm not saying I can see a good build for the 3+ bus immediately. In general you want either 2+ or Fast Cav for such a unit. But they are Core and fairly affordable, so you get quite a few ablative bodies. The issue for me is whether we can make the accompanying characters nasty enough. They are the point of the unit and M9 Swiftstride, even without Fast Cav, is pretty respectable.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Yuri » 05 Jan 2016, 11:51

Actually, Forest Guard became not that good, yet again. Now spears by default provide AP which cancels our racial AP. But they were always tarpit unit more than offensive tool so S3 and/or AP isn't as good as Bodyguard or Steadfast. I wanted to see Stubborn instead of Bodyguard, but we got what we have. When talking about those two, I'd say Steadfast > Bodyguard. Few reasons but the strongest is cheapness due to needed character inside the unit. That character is expensive and very fragile (which can be improved but then expensiveness rises). Don't forget, Strider (Forest) allows Steadfast in the forest terrains.

Heath Riders have their uses. They are cheap and fast. Perfect for ambushing, screening, bouncing, wound counter, diverting, chaff cleaning, warmachine hunting,... I believe I mentioned enough reasons why they are good for. We all know they are elves - I'm very happy they don't cost too much and they can have more than 5+ save if needed. Black Arrows (or any other special arrows) would be too much and would break them.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Nerul » 05 Jan 2016, 21:37

@Phil Rossiter.my bad about parry,i didn't see the part that says they have to use the spear.

even the old vampire blender lord cant do anything in a unit of heath riders.if your only concern is to get your characters to battle we agree, if you spend the points you can do that.
its still a waste of points imo, because you have to spend alot of points on heroes and you still wont be able to take on a unit of feral orcs on the front for example.(we agree on that, we have rly good heroes but not nasty enough for something like that, and thats nice)

@Yuri. if your planning to use heath riders for chaff, dude they are very expensive for that (take eagles). you can spend your core point way more effective on stubborn-skirmish dryads, forest guards(they are still very good for heir points) and sylvan archers with black arrows. Our core is very good, its not like we have to pay the core tax on every game.

sry but i didnt suggest special arrows on heath riders, but at least something like black arrows or just ap arrows. did you check the marauders and dark riders to see what they can do ??
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Welshy » 03 Mar 2016, 18:07

Hello everyone! I have a random question. I haven't played since 8th, due to end times and now age of sigmar....
But this new 9th age looks very promising. Are lots of people playing it, and how is the tourney scene??
Sorry if this is derailing the thread, just looking for a general idea.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 03 Mar 2016, 23:14

Hi Welshy!

Welshy wrote:Are lots of people playing it

Yes. See the forums on their site for example:

http://www.the-ninth-age.com

Welshy wrote: how is the tourney scene??

USA

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=28989

UK

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=13

There are tournaments worldwide, not least because the ETC will play 9th Age in August. Continental Europe especially.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Welshy » 04 Mar 2016, 16:55

Hi Phil, thanks for the reply, I can see by your post count that you've been busy here!
I normally browse in work, and TWF is blocked hence me asking here. Good to see there are still active gaming groups.
9th seems like a great idea, I will dust off my models and see if anyone wants a game. Iv'e been out of the country so have lost touch with a lot of the guys on the tourney scene.
Anyway, thanks for the response. :)
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 04 Mar 2016, 17:13

I have just attended a tournament, and 9th age is very good I must say. The sneak peek for the next sylvan elves have been released, for anyone interested.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 04 Mar 2016, 22:11

You're welcome Welshy. Asrai has of course been very quiet but there's been a little activity lately. Basically the UK tourney scene is split between 9th Age and AoS, with 8th edition and Kings of War (and even Darklands) also played.

I'd forgotten Cardiff GT was your first 9th Age tournament Thomas. A lot of revisions coming very soon I understand.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 05 Mar 2016, 10:43

Hi Phil,

yeah I just had a game two days ago with a revised list. It was good fun. Might write a note about it later on.

With the new release coming out, training for the next tournament is a bit difficult.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 05 Mar 2016, 10:51

I'd be interested to hear about that game.

Yeah, 9th Age has gone quiet on Ulthuan, everyone's waiting for the damn update!

:)
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Welshy » 07 Mar 2016, 11:52

Phil Rossiter wrote:You're welcome Welshy. Asrai has of course been very quiet but there's been a little activity lately. Basically the UK tourney scene is split between 9th Age and AoS, with 8th edition and Kings of War (and even Darklands) also played.


Darklands?? Could you elaborate?

I was a very active 7th edition player, less so with 8th, then I was out of the country for a few years, so only really played some Mordheim. (still a great game...)
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