Wildwood Ranger Horde

[thesustainablecenter]

So I'm trying to make a Swedish list and I'm thinking a unit of these guys comp well and hit hard enough to maybe get the job done. Wuss and on them would be great too but will see how essential that is. Any experience or feedback on this idea is appreciated!

[razorfate]

Hi there,
Wildwoodranger horde needs supporting magic (beast and metal) and magical items (stubborn helm and razor standard which they can only take as BSB banner) and in a bad magic phase they can vanquish as they had never existed.

Maybe they can be more useful if they are used as disposible 10 man strong MSU units, 110 (naked)-140 (fcg) pts value to hold some monsters, protect your archers and act as redirectors if necessary.

[tomrobo23]

It's ok as an idea but in reality WWR are a bit poor, i've used them in a horde of 33 in a few games and they are a continual dissapointment.

Fought 5 Warlocks when i was down to 28 men, the warlocks won and ran them down (bad rolls tbh, but that displays WWR issue with lack of rerolls and fighting other elves especially a 4++ which warlocks treat as 3++ on the dice roll)

fought 25 bloodletters (they charged) with a hatred herald, they were 7wide i was horded. I lost combat despite all my attacks (36) at I5 over I4 (again lack of rerolls and having to get through a ward save) and was run down.

12 Cold one knights with 3 masters, I kill 8 knights but lose 20+ men lose steadfast and break again.

None of these are bad foes for WWR really but they just lose all the time even with +1 attack at times, they go down too easy and can't hit back hard enough.

[Mollesvinet]

I would recommend a life weaver with crown of command and a 4++ ward save. It is incredible how much stubborn and either regen or +2/4 toughness does for these guys.

[Aezeal]

It's ok as an idea but in reality WWR are a bit poor, i've used them in a horde of 33 in a few games and they are a continual dissapointment.

Fought 5 Warlocks when i was down to 28 men, the warlocks won and ran them down (bad rolls tbh, but that displays WWR issue with lack of rerolls and fighting other elves especially a 4++ which warlocks treat as 3++ on the dice roll)

fought 25 bloodletters (they charged) with a hatred herald, they were 7wide i was horded. I lost combat despite all my attacks (36) at I5 over I4 (again lack of rerolls and having to get through a ward save) and was run down.

12 Cold one knights with 3 masters, I kill 8 knights but lose 20+ men lose steadfast and break again.

None of these are bad foes for WWR really but they just lose all the time even with +1 attack at times, they go down too easy and can't hit back hard enough.

Do you think the EG would have done better against the same opponents?
PS thanks for giving such clear combat results, thats information I (and probably others) can use (in this case I use it to prevent me buying WWR).

[razorfate]

I think eternal guard unit with characters in the front rank will be better supported than the wildwood rangers.
If supported as Mollesvinet suggested a glade guard horde would be useful too and fill the core tax at the same time.

[frenchi861]

I never played a hord of them, neither played them suported with magic. My experience with them is in a unit of 10 to 15 WWR playing 1000 to 1500 points. They died all the time. They lost combat against swordsmen (I was in the forest). The problem I see with them (unsuported) is that they don't get to re-roll and they don't have that much attacks. One unlucky CC phase and they are gone. EG on the other, even if not winning have more chance to stay. I don't beleive 1 charactere with Crown of Command with them will be enough, he can be targeted really easly.

Also, both EG and WWR need magic, but, in the case you charge and have a small magic phase, your EG will still be there your next turn and you might have another chance with you magic phase to make them more killy. I don't see WWR standing 2 CC phase against anything.

I love the model and I would love to see them work but I don't see how. Please, if any of you succed to make them work, let us know.

[Mollesvinet]

While the survival abilities of GG and WWR will be the same with the weaver in there, the GG won't be able to deal any damage.

Don't underestimate the survivability of the weaver in close combat. She has a 4++, WS10 and sometimes T5 or even T7. Furthermore, since she is a life mage she will heal herself with each cast.

[Aezeal]

I think eternal guard unit with characters in the front rank will be better supported than the wildwood rangers.
If supported as Mollesvinet suggested a glade guard horde would be useful too and fill the core tax at the same time.

Seriously GG are terrible in combat so this is just not true.

[tomrobo23]

I think it's important to remember that the value of a unit cannot be found in how good they are with a spell on them. Ungor are good when they're t7, dryads are good with mindrazor, zombies are good with speed of light next to a corpse cart. Eternal Guard can sit in a poison wood, take no negatives and gain poison, fight in an extra rank and reroll 1s. WWR can't (generally) because they lose steadfast and rarely have enough bodies in a horde to benefit from extra rank or to keep that advantage in a fight that and it's stationary allowing the enemy to send fast hard units that'll win that combat at them. That is essentially a free good spell (two spells really) which is easy to access through our own free wood for a defensive unit.

You cannot rely on magic, a smart opponent can save his scroll for that one vital turn, shut out your magic phase and win the turn and by extension the game, you need units which function well in their own right and can be relied on to hold after a bad magic phase your way or your opponents good phase. I don't think you can rely on WWR past their ITP (which has it's ups and downs but is certainly a pro for reliability) rerolls give you reliabilty, stubborn gives you reliability, s5 does give you reliabilty against almost every foe and indeed the fact they carry GWs is their only saving grace and reason to include them in any army, however you can get better sources of s5 who are more reliable.

[Mollesvinet]

tomrobo I know what you are saying, but the thing with life and a melee weaver is that you have two spells that both boost your defensive abilities. It should be possible to draw the scroll with dwellers early on. Even if you don't get the spells you are still stubborn because of the crown.

This is the only way I have run wwr, and honestly I couldn't think of any other useful way to run a large group of them.

[frenchi861]

@Mollesvinet: Was it worth it? Did they do anything good? How did they perform?

[razorfate]

I think eternal guard unit with characters in the front rank will be better supported than the wildwood rangers.
If supported as Mollesvinet suggested a glade guard horde would be useful too and fill the core tax at the same time.

Seriously GG are terrible in combat so this is just not true.

Hi Aezeal,
My glade guard unit (no more than 15 strong) had destroyed 12-14 Bloodletters in one combat turn without any magical buffs in one game. They were of course in a venom thicket.

[Aezeal]

hmm not sure about the numbers but luck must have been involved.

And against armor they are just terrible with S3 and no AP. Even with ASF and sometimes rerolls they usually don't kill anything in my experience.

[Phil Rossiter]

The Venom Thicket makes a difference here, Murderous and Martial Prowess on top of Poison and ASF is vicious.

I guess if you have Mindrazor an enemy could often stick and get razored in the WE turn.

[razorfate]

Lady Luck seldomly takes my side...
As Phil Rossiter said, the ASf and martial and murderous prowess rules on top of the dangerous terrain test and poison rule had made all the difference.

[frenchi861]

What about taking Lore of light with WWR? Life is good but it just make them harder to get kill. Lore of light help them to survive but also to kill. Does Birona’s Timewarp give them ASF?

[FriedTaterExplosion]

What about taking Lore of light with WWR? Life is good but it just make them harder to get kill. Lore of light help them to survive but also to kill. Does Birona’s Timewarp give them ASF?

Nope. They already have ASF... it's just being countered by the GW ASL.

[hutobega]

I'd say take 38 strong and two characters... Life magic for toughness or beasts for wyssans and another character doesn't really matter what but with magic resistance 3 amulet I think it could work just fine and the rest support the unit with arrow fire and maybe a unit of wild riders for flanking!

[Mollesvinet]

@Mollesvinet: Was it worth it? Did they do anything good? How did they perform?

They took out a bunch of plaguebeareres with a herald of nurgle. Sadly they had regeneration and I failed to get any flaming into them, otherwise i would have slaughtered them quicker. See for yourself:

http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2 ... 99#p350166

We had to stop at turn 4, otherwise they could have engaged a unit of khorne dogs (corn-dogs) and killed them easily as well. Lack of ASF hurts, one turn i only hit with 4 out of 22 attacks hitting on 4+....

[Q10fanatic]

Every elf with a GW needs boosted Hand of Glory. Better WS lets you hit on threes while your opponent (maybe) hits on fives. The increased initiative prevents other elves from getting re-rolls. Helps your offense and defense.

[frenchi861]

WWR with Lifeweaver Crown of Command and 4++ + highweaver on unicorn, what do you think about that? Is that not too defensive?

[Mollesvinet]

Magic res is good. My only worries is no look-out-sir for the unicorn. T4 is nice though.

Up to you if you want to take the chance!


Nice idea with hand of glory, would also give you counters and healing for the mage (altough not as reliably).

[tomrobo23]

I don't get it tbh. High weaver works because they go in sisters (our hardest unit to kill) and buff their resilience with tokens, don't think the lore is great for rangers past hand of glory and tokens are very easily nullified by killing squishy rangers. past that it means she's not hard to kill in combat either really?

[frenchi861]

I wasn't thinking to put the Unicorn inside but use her as my General and using the lore of High to be more aggressive with my spell. I dont think putting her in the unit is a good idea. On a unicorn, she is a unit by herself.

Now, if I understand, Lifeweaver is a must with WWR, and on paper it sounds right but Lifeweaver doesn't help them to kill staff. To help them to kill, I can see a Metalweaver (+1 to Hit and Armor piercing, also the Scaly Skin can help them survive), a Lightweaver (+1 Attack, and Speed of Light can help them survive, as well as the net), Beastsinger with Wysan.

So, if you can choose 2 lv4 caster, which combination will you choose?