help, how to beat OnG

[Rafiki]

My most regular opponent is an OnG player, and i have only beaten him once in a 2v2. Which i mostly ascribe to dumb luck and his mistake.

He usually takes a horde of savage orcs some 30-40 with a nasty lord and a shaman with shrunken head(gives the unit a +5 ward).
even then he can still bring two doom divers, a giant spider and the loose units.

Now i could really use some advice on how to punish him for it, ways to break it!
I know he will never make the mistake of charging a large group of wardancers in a forest(venemous) again, so i need other ways.

[hutobega]

Poison shots against the spider is an easy kill. use eagles to make those savage orcs either stick in place or charge and redirect at funny angles. the doom divers use scouts poison shots as well OR get something fast into them asap. DFoes he bring mangler squigs? if he does also poison shots will work wonders on them too! poison works well against OnG. and redirecting. you can't stant toe to toe really. Wild riders would mow down a bunch of savage orcs but not worth the casualties since he will no matter what gets tons of attacks against you avoid at all costs.

[hutobega]

Hopefully gives you a few ideas at least.

[Mollesvinet]

I beat an O&G list similar to what you are facing in a recent battle report of mine. It was partly due to a mistake by my opponent, though it would be the same outcome if i had not failed a charge before that.

Check it out for inspiration:

Wood Elves vs Orcs and Goblins

[nXken]

Slow them down as much as you can
Make them take DT-tests. (Curse, forest, ...))
Dwellers, ... on the entire unit
Snipe out the characters (they provide the buff to the wardsave)


Indeed massive amounts of shooting and redirection.

The Savage deathstar is a wonderful unit (you can do the same on boars by the way )

[Rafiki]

I have tried to slow him down once, using shadow and while that worked to a degree, he learned to simply make sure to dispel it.
I have tried to use curse of anraheir, but he disagrees that it works on open terrain, even though he is fine with tomb kings version that does the same.
As for magic in general, i can never get it to work, never get the double sixes when i try, often have problems getting the spells i need through, having problems like using 5 dices which he dispels with 4 even when my weaver is in forest.
As for sniping i tried once, failed. And recently decided to try again, so next time we face up i will be bringing a waystalker with bow of loren.

I already autoinclude two great eagles. I also like to bring three warhawk riders i have found them good at taking out warmachines with easy along with chariots on the flanks, and getting them where he does not want them. Meanwhile the poison arrows deal with the spider. But either i roll bad or he rolls good, either way i usually need 35-50 hagbane tips to bring down the spider.

He brought black orcs once, but my waywatchers removed a rank like clockwork each round. So he has never brought any of them against me since. I am not entirely sure of the price of black orcs, but he appeared to feel that they were falling way to easy compared to their points.

[Mollesvinet]

Just met a guy who also thought this way about curse on anraheir, thought everyone agreed by now.

I pointed out to him that open terrain is the first type of terrain on the list of terrain types in the rule book. He agreed with this interpretation after that. Too me it is very clear, and i don't see any reason for confusion.

Good luck in your battles and don't give up. Just because a certain strategy fails one time doesn't mean it will never work.


Oh and about spells, try not to be depending on a single spell to save the day. An enemy can almost certainly dispell one of your spells of his choosing, so make sure you have more spells that are worth casting!

[Leohindus]

Agree with the above post, hagbane arrows are great vs O&G. If you have trouble with an infantry block just avoid it, re-direct with an eagle if needed and kill everything else. Our mobility is a big advantage v.s O&G, you should be able to pick and choose your fights so you only melee when it is to your advantage.

[NonnoSte]

An ever-working tactica is to mount a Deathweaver in a unit of Sisters, vanguard them forward and march 18" first turn, then send an IF Purple Sun up his flank.
Pretty dumb, but he won't like that.

The only other real disadvantage of that Savage Horde is that they're slow.
You could go with an avoidance army and run circles around them all the match through.
Foot of Gork and Doom Divers sill still be big issues, but at least all the point he's spending on the Savage Orc Death Star are simply wasted.

An Highweaver with MR in a Sister Bunker looks sensible too.
Just be sure to unforge either the Shrunken Head or the MR before you attempt a Fiery Convocation on the unit of Savage Orcs.

[Rafiki]

Nice way to combine our mobility and the deathweaver, negates the normal drawback of casting a vortex.
Maybe add the powerscroll to ensure IF

And slow... the deathstar is over on my side in 2 turns, unless i redirect them

[Mollesvinet]

Better read up on your power scroll. According to FAQ it only lowers casting cost by 50%, and only non-boosted versions.

It is still a very useful item though.

[Rafiki]

hmm, so they figured that making all doubles were too powerfull after they wrote the big red book.
Not too surprised, on the other hand that might allow one, to sneak a small purple sun through in a magic phase where he thinks he is safe.

[Coyle_Ravane]

Wouldn't dark magic be good here?
Boosted word of pain could neuter that block, if you can get it through, and black horror is great for the turn 1 vortex along the line trick, since it tends to travel further than purple sun.

Then you've also got stuff like doombolt, for killing chaff, or PoD on a block of EG in a venom thicket.

[NonnoSte]

The problem with Black Horror is that it allows ward saves (2++ on Savage Deathstars, thanks to 5++ form war paintings and MR3) and Orcs are Str4. So a Purple sun on average kills double the models (I2), other than giving you back power dice.

[Polycotton]

O&G are very slow. You can very easily build an army that is charging or shooting his Doom Divers from the second turn. Warhawks, Poison Scouts and Poison Glade Riders are handy for this. Looks out for Fanatics.

You can avoid his Deathstar all day and redirect it with Eagles.

As has been mentioned, that Giant Spider is free points to around 30 shots from Poison Arrows.

I find the Law of Shadow is great for slowing them further or dropping Pits on them, aside from the usual Withering. High Magic is great for wounding his General/BSB and destroying their ward saves/magic armour/Crown of Command. I've tried Death Magic numerous times but haven't had much joy assassinating my regular opponents characters.

If people want to run Deathstars they need to deal with the fact that opponents will sometimes just have to avoid them all game and destroy the rest of their army. I have an Ogre opponent who often runs a Gutstar that I have no hope of tackling, so I destroy the rest of his army and avoid it until the end by which time I have whittled it down with archery and magic and can finish it off with a combo charge.

[Aezeal]

I really think an item that gives a 5++ on a whole units is pretty nasty really, overpowered seems a good description.. what does it do.. make a 6++ a 5++ (we need something like that for our wardancers then...and ofc our wardancers need to be improved cus they stilll would not equal savage orc boar boys.

[Hyarion]

While the metagame has changed considerably, I agree a 5+ ward save to a whole unit is quite good, but when we had access to Rhymer's Harp, almost nobody ever took it unless you were going for a 70 strong EG Phalanx.