Flamespyre a good fit for a Wood Elf Army?

[Rebel Jai]

End Times rules and games are all around, but I mainly stick with my pure Wood Elf army with all the usual unit choices. Does anyone think that a Flamespyre Phoenix would make a good addition to a shooty + forest spirit-infantry list? My thought is to replace the Great Eagles with a Flamespyre to go war machine hunting and perform as a distraction unit.

[chickenbane]

I recently had a game against high Elves where i faced both types of Phoenix. Out of the two the Frostheart is more of a pain to deal with. The making the opponent always strike last and -1 strength really boost it in combat. Just personal preference really.

[Aezeal]

I don't think you can really compare them with eagles though.. they can't be used as redirectors very well.

How do both types of Phoenix compare with the treeman though?

[Phil Rossiter]

Much faster and don't have that horrible vulnerability to Flaming war machines and spells, in fact the Flamespyre laughs at them.

Treemen have good armour and are Stubborn but the Frostheart's -1S and ASL abilities make it a very good blocker anyway. Flamespyre is weaker in combat but Wake of Fire can be good and coming back from the dead followed by a rear charge can ruin any opponent's day.

[Rebel Jai]

Thanks for the comment so far! How do you feel about the Wake of Fire attack against warmachines? Or should I charge a Flamespyre into combat with warmachines?

[NonnoSte]

Wake of Fire will still wound the war machines on 6s because it's considered a shooting attack.
On the contrary, in hand to hand you'll get even the thunderstomp, because you're fighting against infantry models.

Between the two Phoenixes, I think the Flame one is the best suited to harass (it's great to deal with small units of archers, war machines, fast cavalries and other light troops), while the other really shines if it can be thrown in combat, possibly along with other units, to increase both their effectiveness and their survivability.

[Phil Rossiter]

I believe Thunderstomp doesn't work vs unit type War Machine.

But I agree combat much better here than Wake of Fire.

[Blackcat]

Honestly having played numerous games against my housemates high elves we have found that the frost phoenix is the harder of the two options. Wood elves honestly don't need war machine hunters. We have an army of them. What we do need is better combat units and monsters. The frostheart provides both. It is brutal is combat and even more painful when used in support. Having wild riders supported with a frostheart is devastating, what about supporting your combat block of eternal guard with a flank charge? The -1 to strength really pays dividends especially when used with even more debuffing from magic support.

The only time a flamespyre phoenix is worth it is when it is ridden by an anointed prince because they get additions to the roll to be rebirthed. Or if you have multiple phoenix's.

Fluffwise the flamespyre phoenix just doesn't fit either. A giant monster that is constantly burning in a forest? Nope. Oh you want that monster to be around an army of forest spirits who are all flammable? Nope nope nope.

[Mollesvinet]

Fluffwise the flamespyre phoenix just doesn't fit either. A giant monster that is constantly burning in a forest? Nope. Oh you want that monster to be around an army of forest spirits who are all flammable? Nope nope nope.

Haha, good point! I would go for the frost phoenix, it is really a lot better than our treemen. Sad but true.

[sunstrider]

Fluffwise the flamespyre phoenix just doesn't fit either. A giant monster that is constantly burning in a forest? Nope. Oh you want that monster to be around an army of forest spirits who are all flammable? Nope nope nope.

Dude at the end of the Khaine end times book the phoenixes went and chilled in Vaul's Anvil. And given the fact that elves can ride these phoenixes, that implies they can control what their flames burn, so it only doesn't fit if you don't want it to.

Anyways, I agree with the general sentiment that although the flamespyre phoenixes are good, we already have a whole army that can harass as well as it can. So I'd take the frostheart if I had the option, although I haven't gotten any end times games in yet. Taking an Anointed of Asuryan on a flamespyre is an interesting option though, risky but can play some nasty mind games with your opponent.

[Blackcat]

Fluffwise the flamespyre phoenix just doesn't fit either. A giant monster that is constantly burning in a forest? Nope. Oh you want that monster to be around an army of forest spirits who are all flammable? Nope nope nope.

Dude at the end of the Khaine end times book the phoenixes went and chilled in Vaul's Anvil. And given the fact that elves can ride these phoenixes, that implies they can control what their flames burn, so it only doesn't fit if you don't want it to.

Anyways, I agree with the general sentiment that although the flamespyre phoenixes are good, we already have a whole army that can harass as well as it can. So I'd take the frostheart if I had the option, although I haven't gotten any end times games in yet. Taking an Anointed of Asuryan on a flamespyre is an interesting option though, risky but can play some nasty mind games with your opponent.

It was more of a joking sentiment but I didnt know they could turn it off, I thought it was more that the riders were immune to the fire. I havent read much of the end times except for when araloth goes into the garden of nurgle. I still dont think wood elves would be cool with a giant flaming bird. At least my wood elves wouldnt be

Gamewise frost hearts are definitely better.

[sunstrider]

Fluffwise the flamespyre phoenix just doesn't fit either. A giant monster that is constantly burning in a forest? Nope. Oh you want that monster to be around an army of forest spirits who are all flammable? Nope nope nope.

Dude at the end of the Khaine end times book the phoenixes went and chilled in Vaul's Anvil. And given the fact that elves can ride these phoenixes, that implies they can control what their flames burn, so it only doesn't fit if you don't want it to.

Anyways, I agree with the general sentiment that although the flamespyre phoenixes are good, we already have a whole army that can harass as well as it can. So I'd take the frostheart if I had the option, although I haven't gotten any end times games in yet. Taking an Anointed of Asuryan on a flamespyre is an interesting option though, risky but can play some nasty mind games with your opponent.

It was more of a joking sentiment but I didnt know they could turn it off, I thought it was more that the riders were immune to the fire. I havent read much of the end times except for when araloth goes into the garden of nurgle. I still dont think wood elves would be cool with a giant flaming bird. At least my wood elves wouldnt be

Gamewise frost hearts are definitely better.

I mean even wood elves gotta be warm just like everyone else. A flying campfire would do the job well >.<

[Coyle_Ravane]

I can't really see Asrai being much happier with a giant bird which makes the sap freeze and burst the trees open than one which sets them on fire really. Although at least they don't have to worry about it spreading like fire does.