Special Characters

[Aezeal]

So who has played with special characters?
Which special characters are worth their points?

So this is what I think:
WORTH IT
- The Sisters are worth their points and unless you take the worst interpretation of their rules (considering all the discussion) they will be well worth it.
- Durthu has good combat stats, level 1 mage in a relevant magic school (good signature spell for our army, augments and hexes he could cast while in combat), KB shooting. He is quite a bit more points than a regular treeman though but I do think he is worth those in the right army.

Doubt
-Drycha: lots of points for 3 wound 4 attacks (lord stats) but with 1 T more and 2 magic levels in a good magic school. Lords has ASF, Drycha hatred and fear. Her special rules make her stronger (in the right army). Has only a 6+ ward though and can't get items obviously. I'm just thinking that a seperate lord with 50 points of items and a level 2 mage might (even though a bit more expensive) might be a better choice. If you do it you obviously do it because of the roused to wrath special rule butmy problem with that is it's hard to plan because you don't get 3 units to deploy that way but D3. So you need to get at least 2-3 units you want to deploy that way.. and might up using only 1 of them.

Not worth it
-Araloth. A kitted lord would do better I think, the option to get a horse or stag alone is nice.
-Orion. Lots of thing discussed about using him.. but I'm not convinced anything in our army (well except dryads maybe) would not be a better investment.

And that is is since we only have 5 special characters.

Please let me know your opinions.

[Coldpsyker]

Anecdotal evidence here- used the twins on a dragon recently, they were my MVP of the match- it was against a double terrogheist scream vamp list, and the sisters were my wild card that filled in the gaps- fast moving with excellent shooting and CC abilities is nothing to be sneezed at.

[arolig]

Worth it:
Naestra & Arahan - effective vs any army. but if you play dwarfs or empire, don't bring them, or hide them well. Cannons really hurt N&A. I've used them a couple times, gonna keep bringing them from time to time.

Doubt:
Durthu - He has more attacks and higher strenght, attacks and LD 10 goaing for him. But he is vounerable to cannons, flaming and great wapons. All for almost 400 pts(expensive).
Lvl 1 wizard is pretty meh... Sure he can boost a unit of eternal guard or wildriders, so you should have that in a list with him. I don't have him, but I've used him once, he ripped High elves, but we played with random generated lists, so it was strange, and he was my only wizard.

Araloth - Only sporting a 4+ ward and a poor armoursave, let's look at the positives. Skaryn the Falcon, use this in combination with your waystalker, lore of death, arcane unforging and arrows of korneous to character snipe. If you take Araloth, bring some of this aswell, atleast a waystalker for a nice possible combo. Stubborn is if you realize that even tough Araloth is 260 pts, he has to be expendable, Now dryads, wildwoodrangers and skirmishers not in woods become tarpitting anvils. His Unbreakable also makes him a character you can charge out of units(or redirect/tarpit), prey he does not die in that combat on his own (WS 8 and 4+ ward should give you some chances). Consider how well he can do in combat if you charge him in, together with another unit beside him, will they direct everything at Araloth? If he charges an enemy that is stupid enough be fight him in a forest then he might even win combat(5 attacks) and run them down. I have not tried Araloth yet, but I will. I doubt he will be worth it, but he seems fun.

Not worth it
Drycha - I have the model, because I bought a lot of wood elves cheap. I have not used her, and I doubt I will use her, because I don't like to field forest spirits. I see her ability being potentially good for hiding treemen(durthu) until warmachine hunter take care of enemy cannons. I feel like putting her with eternal guard or dryads. And running a branchwraith with her perhaps, to dish out Earthblood for her unit. Running her with a shadowsinger should secure you the withering and okkams, or else run a shadowweaver. She hit like bricks, but no ASF, so she needs to do the hurting turn 1. She seems a bit overpriced (as all our special characters except N&A do). 200 pts would be ok for her I think.

Orion - Our Coolest character IMO, but overpriced, had he only been 400 or 450 pts, then well hello there.

[Ember of the Hidden Paths]

I use the sisters every game, so much fun, although we run with the best interpretation in my local group. They aren't very good in big combats however, only suitable as anti chaff, and I am yet to see either arrow bring the pain. On the other hand, dragon in hero slot for triple dragon 2k end times is fantastic. Love them

[Lord Sloth]

I've used both Araloth and Orion in fun and competitive games and have to say that Araloth is great and worth it and really shines if there is a beast mage near by.

Orion is fun and fluffy to play but not worth it in tourneys or small games. Although I haven't used him with the new FAQ... combine with lvl4 life or beast mage he may just be a real terror on the battle field.

I haven't used any of the others but I have had Drycha used against me in a couple of games and have to say I'm not impressed with her at all.

[Coyle_Ravane]

I have used Orion and Durthru.

Durthru was alongside a L4 life ancient, a L4 undeath ancient, and 2 regular treemen (rest if the army was 4 TK and 60 dryads). As the strongest of 5 treemen in a 2400pt list, Durthru was fun to use and pretty effective, although I'm not sure he was quite worth his cost. If course, since he's the only way to get a third fighty treeman in a list this size, it's a moot point.

Being able to summon large ranked units of skeletons to flank his opponent and match their ranks to deny steadfast allows him to break ranked units with ridiculous ease.

Orion is a lot harder to use, but if you build the army around him it can he effective. The key is stacking a couple of units around him to deliver multiple simultaneous charges with the devastating charge rule.

I've found it powerful but inconsistent. I have heavily beaten my friends cheesiest tournament list 3 games in a row, then been tabled on turn 3 without destroying a single unit of his in the next game. Massive victory the next game, tabled the one after. All 5 games used the same lists, everything was the same, it just seems to either work great or fall apart.

[bjoernuhlig]

[quote] L4 undeath ancient[quote]
cant take death on an ancient

edit: I stand corrected. can take UNdeath on an ancient. how did that go?

[Lord Sloth]

L4 undeath ancient

cant take death on an ancient

not death... undeath... new faq allows all wizards to take the new lore of undeath

[Coyle_Ravane]

Those games where before the faq but trialling end times rules. Amounts to the same thing.

[CauCaSus]

What about Durthu, Orion and the sisters on a dragon in the same army?

[Coyle_Ravane]

What about Durthu, Orion and the sisters on a dragon in the same army?

A warhammer army is like a pizza. Chucking lots more toppings on doesn't always improve it, picking toppings which complement each other does.

Those 3 wouldn't go together very well I think.

A pair of dragon lords and the sisters on a dragon, might work well though, and I know from experience that Durthru and 2 ancients works well (with 2 regular treemen).

[arolig]

Triple dragon apparently works yes.
I am thinking Drycha and Druthu could work well, you want to hide him afterall.

I've also tought of bringing a lot of special characters once. Maybe I will bring Drycha, Araloth and Sisters in the same game just to try, but no hopes here.
I can't stop thinking how better a Beastweaver becomes with this new opening to special characters.

[Aezeal]

What about Durthu, Orion and the sisters on a dragon in the same army?

A warhammer army is like a pizza. Chucking lots more toppings on doesn't always improve it, picking toppings which complement each other does.

Those 3 wouldn't go together very well I think.

A pair of dragon lords and the sisters on a dragon, might work well though, and I know from experience that Durthru and 2 ancients works well (with 2 regular treemen).

Why would the combo's you mention work and the other one not though?

I personally find that investing a lot in dragons makes you end up with relatively few attacks. The number of shots you could get for those points or the number of attacks from wild riders is pretty high (but as you know I'm pretty convinced that wild riders and glade guard are pretty much all our armies need anyway ) It's just hard to see 450 points in one model when you can put 15 wildriders in 2-3 units doing a total of 75 attacks S5/S4 attacks on the charge.... I mean dragon has other things going for it. but a high number of attacks (and at decent WS and S too) Always seems sooooo nice. (and what S5 can't bring down ... then you need hagbane!)

[Coyle_Ravane]

What about Durthu, Orion and the sisters on a dragon in the same army?

A warhammer army is like a pizza. Chucking lots more toppings on doesn't always improve it, picking toppings which complement each other does.

Those 3 wouldn't go together very well I think.

A pair of dragon lords and the sisters on a dragon, might work well though, and I know from experience that Durthru and 2 ancients works well (with 2 regular treemen).

Why would the combo's you mention work and the other one not though?

I personally find that investing a lot in dragons makes you end up with relatively few attacks. The number of shots you could get for those points or the number of attacks from wild riders is pretty high (but as you know I'm pretty convinced that wild riders and glade guard are pretty much all our armies need anyway ) It's just hard to see 450 points in one model when you can put 15 wildriders in 2-3 units doing a total of 75 attacks S5/S4 attacks on the charge.... I mean dragon has other things going for it. but a high number of attacks (and at decent WS and S too) Always seems sooooo nice. (and what S5 can't bring down ... then you need hagbane!)

Multi-dragon has been proven to work, by many different players. I'm not the only one here to have seen double, and more recently, triple dragon lists in action, and they do work. Personal experience tells me the 5 tree list works, as I've used it myself (even if 3 of the treemen where made from sticks glued together on a large base).

Simply taking 3 of our big special characters won't work that well, as they have limited synergy. Maybe you can build a strategy which makes use of their different strengths together, but I can't see it.

[NonnoSte]

What about Durthu, Orion and the sisters on a dragon in the same army?

A warhammer army is like a pizza. Chucking lots more toppings on doesn't always improve it, picking toppings which complement each other does.

Those 3 wouldn't go together very well I think.

A pair of dragon lords and the sisters on a dragon, might work well though, and I know from experience that Durthru and 2 ancients works well (with 2 regular treemen).

Why would the combo's you mention work and the other one not though?

I think the point in taking triple Dragon is just to present multiple threats at flying speed (you can engage almost anything by the second turn).

5 Treemen looks good to me for durability, instead.
They're stubborn and very hard to be taken down (except by cannon, but redundancy does help here, I guess), providing some strength in the meanwhile.

Mixing them to have a bit of everything simply seems to leave you with neither one nor the other.

Please correct me if I'm wrong Coyle (I haven't tried those yet, although it sounds intriguing at the least).

[Coyle_Ravane]

That's about the gist of it.

The treemen need the summoning to work at their best, as they need the ranks of the infantry, and they need summoned chaff.

I'm not an expert on the dragons, I just know I've seen it work very well. I would guess that it is the multiple highly mobile threats as Nonnoste says, which makes it work.

Maybe try ulthuan.net for more Info on multiple dragons.

[Aezeal]

That's about the gist of it.

The treemen need the summoning to work at their best, as they need the ranks of the infantry, and they need summoned chaff.

I'm not an expert on the dragons, I just know I've seen it work very well. I would guess that it is the multiple highly mobile threats as Nonnoste says, which makes it work.

Maybe try ulthuan.net for more Info on multiple dragons.

I guess I'm thinking a bit to much about the hagbanes I'm Always putting on the field. 3 dragons does seem dangerous vs woodelves though. 1 dies first turn and the next turn a 2nd probably, and if you engage with the 2-3th dragon in our deployment zone you will probably get side charged by wildriders. But other army's probably have a harder time dealing with them.

[Coyle_Ravane]

That's about the gist of it.

The treemen need the summoning to work at their best, as they need the ranks of the infantry, and they need summoned chaff.

I'm not an expert on the dragons, I just know I've seen it work very well. I would guess that it is the multiple highly mobile threats as Nonnoste says, which makes it work.

Maybe try ulthuan.net for more Info on multiple dragons.

I guess I'm thinking a bit to much about the hagbanes I'm Always putting on the field. 3 dragons does seem dangerous vs woodelves though. 1 dies first turn and the next turn a 2nd probably, and if you engage with the 2-3th dragon in our deployment zone you will probably get side charged by wildriders. But other army's probably have a harder time dealing with them.

Given the scaly skin dragons have I would guess you'd need about 50-60 hagsbane shots (assuming only -1 to hit from long range) to kill a dragon. Given that the dragon probably has a rider, around a third of your hits go to the rider, so that's 80 or 90 hagsbane shots to kill a dragon.

I don't think you're going to be killing a dragon each turn with shooting.

[Aezeal]

That's about the gist of it.

The treemen need the summoning to work at their best, as they need the ranks of the infantry, and they need summoned chaff.

I'm not an expert on the dragons, I just know I've seen it work very well. I would guess that it is the multiple highly mobile threats as Nonnoste says, which makes it work.

Maybe try ulthuan.net for more Info on multiple dragons.

I guess I'm thinking a bit to much about the hagbanes I'm Always putting on the field. 3 dragons does seem dangerous vs woodelves though. 1 dies first turn and the next turn a 2nd probably, and if you engage with the 2-3th dragon in our deployment zone you will probably get side charged by wildriders. But other army's probably have a harder time dealing with them.

Given the scaly skin dragons have I would guess you'd need about 50-60 hagsbane shots (assuming only -1 to hit from long range) to kill a dragon. Given that the dragon probably has a rider, around a third of your hits go to the rider, so that's 80 or 90 hagsbane shots to kill a dragon.

I don't think you're going to be killing a dragon each turn with shooting.

Hmmm when you put it like that... the lord on it will be dead sooner though, no randomization anymore then. But I agree that would be somewhat more GG than I usually put on the table.