so....%50 characters....

[Leaf]

Well now that it's official lets go ahead and start brain storming what does this mean for us? Can we benefit or is it worthless? My first thought is march of the Ent's LOTR style.

(2500)
360 Treeman Anchiet Lv.4
290 Treeman Anchiet Lv.2
290 Treeman Anchiet Lv.2
290 Treeman Anchiet Lv.2

Rare
245 treeman- strangleroots
245 treeman- strangleroots


THE ENTS MARCH TO WAR!

[popisdead]

haha I thought the same thing. March of the Ents.

[Q10fanatic]

You'd need to include Durthu, just to have every possible Treeman represented.

[DocDropPod]

Remove the level 4 and stick Durthu in there! [emoji108]

[Furyou Miko]

I had the same thought, but how about... at 2500 points...

Core
Glade Guard (42+Bowman, Hagsbane Tips)

Special
3x Deepwood Scouts (5, Hagsbane Tips)

Rare
Waywatchers (8+Sentinel)
Waywatchers (9)

Heroes
13x Waystalker
Spellsinger (to make up the points to exactly 1250 and be the General)

Sounds like a lark, although I doubt it would win me any friends!

[Leaf]

Heroes
13x Waystalker
Sounds like a lark, although I doubt it would win me any friends!

Your right about that but hilarious.

What about triple dragons?!

[Coyle_Ravane]

I posted a list here a little while back with Durthru, a life ancient , in undeqth ancient and 2 regular treemen, plus a few treekin and a bunch of dryads.

I used it in about half a dozen games and it worked quite well. Life and Undeath go well together, especially with a bunch of big monsters already on the table.

[johho]

I Will surely boost up my Treeman Ancient lvl 3 to 4 now since I use him together with a lvl 4 spellweaver.
Lots and lots of magic

[jberrysf]

Glade Lord (2#, 544 pts)
1 Forest Dragon (Fly; Forest Spirit; Forest Strider; Large Target; Scaly Skin (3+); Soporific Breath; Swiftstride; Terror; Thunderstomp)
1 Sword of Anti-Heroes
1 Charmed Shield
1 Talisman of Preservation
1 The Other Trickster's Shard

Glade Lord (2#, 552 pts)
1 Forest Dragon (Fly; Forest Spirit; Forest Strider; Large Target; Scaly Skin (3+); Soporific Breath; Swiftstride; Terror; Thunderstomp)
1 Daith's Reaper
1 Armour of Destiny

Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts) Musician Trueflight Arrows
Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts) Musician Trueflight Arrows
Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts) Musician Hagbane Arrows
Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts) Musician Trueflight Arrows

The Sisters of Twilight (2#, 495 pts)
1 Ceithin-Har (Fly; Forest Spirit; Forest Strider; Impetuous; Large Target; Scaly Skin (3+); Soporific Breath; Swiftstride; Terror; Thunderstomp)

Wild Riders (6#, 168 pts) - Shields

Waywatchers (5#, 100 pts)

New Net Filth

[The_Wendol]

That is pretty filthy!

[popisdead]

4 Ancients, 2 Treemen, 40++ arrows and Drycha comes to about 2490 (I may be missing something) for maximum spamminess and allows a couple shenanigans (deep striking vs hordes).

[arolig]

Ditch one treeman for a lvl 4.high magic with Acorn of ages.
Now Drycha really comes into effect.

Make all you glade guard swiftshiver, so that high mage boosts BS with hand of glory.
Now, spam the rest with wildriders and sisters And BSB, so acients don't flee, ever!

[Nicholas Nitro]

I'm pretty upset about it, honestly. I think it eliminates the effectiveness of both heavy shooting and avoidance. Every army can fill up on cheap heroes with armor and horses. Even an all avoidance army would likely be pinned down in turn 2. Also, Vampire counts can take skeleton archers now(along with anyone who chooses to take undead lore), so I don't think we really 'dominate' the shooting phase like we briefly did after the book came out.

So with every opponent able to:
summon units an inch away from you,
bring several mounted combat heroes,
and summon/start with archers that always hit on 5+ and never run from bs shooting

I think my shooty-army has a very low chance of winning games now. I really don't want to change my play style, because it's why I chose wood elves (and therefore why I got into the hobby in the first place). I'm not too obsessed with winning, but I don't like knowing I've already lost halfway through the second turn.

[Q10fanatic]

You can now run a Light Council that gets to S10 Banishment, with whatever magic items you want, plus a BSB.

That seems like it would be fun to try out.

[The_Wendol]

I'm pretty upset about it, honestly. I think it eliminates the effectiveness of both heavy shooting and avoidance. Every army can fill up on cheap heroes with armor and horses. Even an all avoidance army would likely be pinned down in turn 2. Also, Vampire counts can take skeleton archers now(along with anyone who chooses to take undead lore), so I don't think we really 'dominate' the shooting phase like we briefly did after the book came out.

So with every opponent able to:
summon units an inch away from you,
bring several mounted combat heroes,
and summon/start with archers that always hit on 5+ and never run from bs shooting

I think my shooty-army has a very low chance of winning games now. I really don't want to change my play style, because it's why I chose wood elves (and therefore why I got into the hobby in the first place). I'm not too obsessed with winning, but I don't like knowing I've already lost halfway through the second turn.

I completely agree with this! Aside from taking multiple dragons or multiple treemen which I do not want to do I can see this new 50% rubbish really hurting us! All of our lord and hero builds pale in comparison to most other armies and with almost all of them having access to ridden monsters and beasts plus the lore of undeath our shooting is going to become much less effective.

We will have to see what other changes GW make for 9th......

[Coyle_Ravane]

There will be some nasty builds that take advantage of this, but for the most part, armies with only a moderate amount of characters and plenty of troops will beat most armies with a mass of characters.

If anyone is stupid enough to get a load of cheap mounted characters to use as chaff and tie up your army, don't worry, you'll annihilate those characters before the rest of their army can catch up, getting a load of easy points and leaving only half an army to fight against you.

And remember if your opponent starts packing every unit with a lord level combat character, we can bring 10 waystalkers and still have room a lv4 deathweaver for about 1200pts:lol:

[nXken]

And remember if your opponent starts packing every unit with a lord level combat character, we can bring 10 waystalkers and still have room a lv4 deathweaver for about 1200pts:lol:

Exactly my thoughts

[Phil Rossiter]

Cannon will be everywhere at first, which may make our enemies bring fewer monster lords.

I'm looking at Stag Lord in Sisters, lvl4 Ancient then an elf lvl4. A strong magic phase should really help counter enemy characters.

[Leaf]

I think we have a use for Arcane Bodkins now too, because of people running multiple high armor save characters, our elf cousins, chaos. It gives our shooting core an answer for some of these tough nuts. Honestly my tournament list is changing, but not a whole lot.

[Phil Rossiter]

Yeah, optimising Core load-out could be really important, as this may become a bigger chunk of our rank and file.

[Coyle_Ravane]

To save typing it out again, this is my thoughts on this copied from warseer:

From what I've seen so far, armies with only a moderate amount of characters (more or less what they could take before mostly) are generally stronger than armies with tons of points in characters, because you still have to take 25% core, so those points are coming out of special and rare, which is where the real strength of most armies lies.

For most serious builds, it does allow previously impossible combos, and we will probably see some people bringing a powerful fighty lord and a L4 caster when before they might have had to choose one or the other, but mostly they still won't be going much over 25% on lords.

There will probably also be a couple of really nasty combos, but that happens whenever any major change happens.

Overall, it won't make a huge difference to the more competitive lists,but will let new people start playing more easily.

Of course, then they'll see their character heavy list getting beaten by more troop heavy lists, and pay out for more troops, meaning they probably pay more in the long run than if they'd just gone for troops in the first place.

Easy access for new customers + higher long term spend = happy GW bosses.

[Phil Rossiter]

This may well be true of Wood Elves Coyle.

But for High Elves for example, see the following discussion:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=67444

Most popular approach seems to be, build monster lords/silver helm bus, spend what's left on Rare. These are good players, too.

From a WE perspective, access to a lvl4 Ancient without compromising a second (or third) Lord is well worth a look I feel. If that doesn't work I'll have a look at 2xlvl3 plus combat lord (wanting to keep some troops outside of Core) . The book has hardly been out long enough to explore existing builds fully and now we get these new options. My brain hurts!

[Coyle_Ravane]

That's because it's new and exciting. Just wait and see how long that lasts though, the Meta will adapt quickly and people will shift back as it is exposed as a really bad idea.

It does open up options though.

[Phil Rossiter]

To some extent I agree Coyle.

But HE's have depended heavily on Lords for some time and their monster builds are already competitive (see the existing Dragon/3 Phoenix list). It will vary between armies IMHO.

[Polycotton]

As far as casual play goes this is only a good thing. I've got mates fairly new to this edition who have trouble getting the character combinations they want with the current limits, they don't want any lords and want to spend a few more points on heroes for example.
Personally, it means I can get an eggsees all in one basket Vampire Lord, save points, and create amusing situations where I lose 550pts to an explosive miscast and my army crumbles.

For my Wood Elves it won't make any difference to how I build my armies.