End Times - Double Deamon Prince

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Hflord
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End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Hflord »

My search through forums was fruitless, thusly - how do I, at 2,000 points, beat double deamon princes. 1 is slannesh (usually with caco) and 1 is nurlge. Both are lvl 4, both fly, both 1+, etc. I am trying every character, double dragons, even looked at Orion...nothing. I manage to drop one with withering plus shooting/combat, but never the other. Anyone have list ideas or tactics that work, maybe something I"m not thinking of? Should I bring less lord/hero and bring more archers? Arcane Bodkins? I dunno!!!
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Tropic
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Tropic »

What about this combination on a Glade Lord?
  • Fencer's Blades
  • Glittering Scales
  • Pidgeon Plucker Pendant
  • Featherfoe Torc
  • Great Stag
Put him in a unit of Wildwood Rangers with several ranks and challenge the Daemon Prince. WS10 means he needs 5+ To Hit, rerolling successes. Thunderstomp can't be done because you're mounted. You can win by attrition thanks to ranks, banner and other benefits you might add in to augment your resolution.
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Sunshine coconut
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Sunshine coconut »

if you put him with EG instead of WWR then you'll get stubborn in case the DP gets lucky.

Could you try lvl 4 metal mage? surely they'd go ok?
Monsters shot down by arrows: Cockatrice, Stonehorn, Thunder Tusk, Manticore, Chimera, Blood Thirster, Galrauch, Abomination, Brood Horror, Jabbaslythe, Hydra, Kharibdyss, Stegagon, Necrosphinx, Warsphinx, Terror Gheist, Varghulf, Giant, Frost Phoenix aaannnnnnd Treeman :(
nXken
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by nXken »

Light council vs daemons?
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Aezeal
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Aezeal »

Light council with banishment could work
Other armor negating spells
Metal spells (will give a certian number of hits which will wound on 2 +, no regular AS allowed, that should help)
Shooting in general
Waywaytchers in particular: negating armor will at least help against the 1+.
Maybe just try to tie one up with chaf/redirectors etc.
I think they WWR might be a good idea but they might just want to avoid them.
Sisters on hawk shoot hard.

Can you post their stat lines and items? I don't know their stats, KB probably isn't an option right (else wardancer suicide assassins)?
But if they are monsters and can't be KB they can't be in units so should be targetable by all metal spells.

And looking from the bright side: those 2 models will tie up a large part of his points and won't even have like 10 attacks between them and no rank bonus. Might be that regular troops could do more damage.

I must admit to lacking in game experience but all in all I'd say:
Get full on metal mages (should help vs the rest of his army too).
Sisters on eagle.
Waywatchers.
Once the spells and waywatchers do a few wounds you could try to finish them with regular shooting.
If you have the WWR I'd use them in the army because high Str and 2 A vs fear is Always good, having said that the chances of getting the DP's with them are not that high considering mobility.
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by popisdead »

Out of curiosity are you going to see this soon? Or is this just a worst case scenario?

I still haven't seen anyone summon spam in 40k with daemons.

It would be tough indeed. Denying Thunderstomp would be my first priority, especially combined with Soulfeeder.
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Hflord
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Hflord »

My current counter is death mage, lord on dragon with spirit sword, neastra and arahan on a dragon, then core and all that. It's costly in characters, but seems to deal with the double deamon princes. It cannot beat Nagash, though it did get him down to one wound...

My concern is that this is for a tournament and I'm focusing too much on the hardest of netlists and not on a well rounded (esp. siege wpn heavy) lists.

My core is currently 40 eternal guard as a primary objective holder, I'm now concerned that I won't deal with siege wpns fast enough.

My standard list is current netlist or variation thereof. So this double dragon, end times, is very tough transition for me.
WhispersofBlood
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by WhispersofBlood »

Hflord wrote:My search through forums was fruitless, thusly - how do I, at 2,000 points, beat double deamon princes. 1 is slannesh (usually with caco) and 1 is nurlge. Both are lvl 4, both fly, both 1+, etc. I am trying every character, double dragons, even looked at Orion...nothing. I manage to drop one with withering plus shooting/combat, but never the other. Anyone have list ideas or tactics that work, maybe something I"m not thinking of? Should I bring less lord/hero and bring more archers? Arcane Bodkins? I dunno!!!
Is this end times? If its not how is your opponent is using multiple 500 point lord choices?

Anyway if its slaanesh 5 Wild riders with mindrazor pretty much solve the issue here. Only has 4 wounds. If its Nurgle Amber spear from lore of beasts or Alpha strike with waywatchers.
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Sunshine coconut »

I reckon a few metal mages would do it. Really if you can get searing doom and plague of rust. even a single cat of plague of rust will drop him to a 3+ against or archers and 4 wounds isn't hard to drop.
If you could tie one up with a EG horde too. That would be half the game :) maybe even a wound or two :)
I don't think I'd try to best themwith a combat character... Our guys just don't cut it...
Monsters shot down by arrows: Cockatrice, Stonehorn, Thunder Tusk, Manticore, Chimera, Blood Thirster, Galrauch, Abomination, Brood Horror, Jabbaslythe, Hydra, Kharibdyss, Stegagon, Necrosphinx, Warsphinx, Terror Gheist, Varghulf, Giant, Frost Phoenix aaannnnnnd Treeman :(
CauCaSus
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by CauCaSus »

Also, in a tournament, look as to how you can best minimize your losse rather than tooling up against a specific list when you might not even face it.
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Phil Rossiter »

It's worth bearing in mind that Daemon Princes are Unbreakable. One will have Dragonbane Gem, the other maybe Dragonhelm.

What's your usual list Hflord?
Hflord
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Hflord »

I ended up beating the double deamon prince lists at 2k points consecutively. It was a standard list with some exception:

net stuff (shadow weaver, hagbane GG, etc)
Lord on Dragon, spirit sword, charmed shield, dragonbane gem

The biggest thing was to chaff the nurgle DP for most of the game. I deployed so a cacophonic choir couldn't get me first turn, charged the slaneesh DP and withered it/spirit sword it. Killed it. Then was the nurgle DP, I shot at it a ton, never killed it, but kept feeding it small units and eagles while I was able to kill other units.

The spirit sword and shadow weaver I continued into a tournament and it did okay, but never shined and the weak armor of the lord was shabby. My newest list (triple dragons for 2.5k) hosts some 4++ lords and the sisters. I've not tried it against the double DP and I'm concerned since I've no wizard, but we'll see.
Aezeal
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Aezeal »

No wizard at 2.5K.... that is... brave/stupid
Hflord
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Hflord »

stupid...so far it's working, but leaving a magic phase to my opponents whims has not been exciting
CauCaSus
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Re: Sv: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by CauCaSus »

Hflord wrote:
The biggest thing was to chaff the nurgle DP for most of the game. I deployed so a cacophonic choir couldn't get me first turn, charged the slaneesh DP and withered it/spirit sword it. Killed it. Then was the nurgle DP, I shot at it a ton, never killed it, but kept feeding it small units and eagles while I was able to kill other units.
Why did he let you charge him? Why did he charge your eagles? Didn't thw DPs have wings?
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Warren0101 »

To my knowledge both DPs can’t have 1+ save? They can both have Chaos Amour but only one can have Scaly Skin so I played one guy who had his Nurgle DP with 1+ and Slannesh one with enchanted shield which took him to a 2+ save.

Find out which one has the 1+. Arrow of K is good for this or use one of your smaller GG units. Once you know which one has the 1+ save, this is the guy you shoot with waywatchers. I use 2 x 8xWW so I use them to shoot off the DP, hopefully with the help of withering. The other DP I focus on sending in Wildriders because without the -1 to hit you get 4 guys who are hitting on 4+ and wounding on 4+, so averaging 3W also with only having a 2+ save this means he is only getting 5+ 5+ save. This will hopefully weaken him up, yes he will then kill the Wild riders but that should hold him up for a turn and then you can re assign WW. Another technique is finding out which DP has the 2+ Save because if you pummel him with true flight he only has a 3+ save. With enough wounds you can do a number on him!!! Especially if you use the Hail of Doom on him too.

Don't get me wrong, double DP is really hard to deal with but I’ve done it a few times. However its hilarious when you take both off in one turn!!!

WoC are one of the armies I’ve got a really good record against, I normally play the rush armies, DP, BSB, Chimeras, Skull crushers etc.
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Re: End Times - Double Deamon Prince

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I would be most concerned about more numerous characters on Discs or Daemonic Mounts. They still have great armour saves and T5 but better Wards and they're cheaper.
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