dryad tactics

Share your tactical prowess and learn new ways of beating your foes with all the might of the Asrai.

Moderator: Council of Elders

edmondj
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 50
Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 08:03

dryad tactics

Post by edmondj »

Good day everyone,

Ever since the new book came out, we've all been trying to work our heads around the new dryads. Since they were one of the few viable choices in the old book (not to mention one of the cheaper models to get a hold of), most of us have some units available, painted up and ready to be fielded.

Alas, with the heaps of fun to be found in alternatives in the new book, our dryads have been mostly reduced to shelf decorating. At least, this seems to be the consensus.

But in this article, I would like to discuss some ways in which I feel dryads can still be a solid choice.

The trick to judging a unit's merits lies in understanding the role you wish to confer upon it. And this decision should be based on understanding the stats and special rules of the unit under consideration.

Let's take treekin for a second, another unit that most people feel have taken a hit. If you look at the stats of treekin, you will realise that this is a correct assessment, because in their current profile, they fall in between two roles, not excelling at either (and being expensive because of this duality).

On the one hand you would want them to be hammers. They have 3 attacks, with 3 attacks in the second rank as well. And they have stomp. However, they lost a point of strength and at strength 4, they fail to break through any armour or toughness. Moreover, their weapon skill is only average and they get no rerolls. As such, the only unit they will reliably cause wounds to is something with toughness 3 and something like light armour and shields (ironically, wood elves). However, these units will often have much higher rank bonuses and command options, so your treekin could still lose combat. So in short, as a hammer, not so good.

But wait, treekin became a lot cheaper in the new book, and their defensive stats have stayed exactly the same, so maybe they should be used as an anvil then? With toughness 5 and a 4+ basic armour save (and 3 wounds apiece), this might actually work!? Except that, since their damage output is so low they will probably lose combat. This in itself isn't too bad, but a good anvil unit should be relied upon to not run away. Ideally, this means unbreakable or more realistically, stubborn. If not these, then at the least steadfast. Unfortunately, none of these are options for the treekin. With no access to magic banners or items and typically few ranks, you're left with their anvil-lacking leadership value of 8, possibly aided by a general and bsb. But as everyone has been finding out the hard way, this does not cut it.

Moreover, even if treekin could perform either of these roles, then there is still the problem of competition. Eternal Guard make a much more reliable anvil. And as for hammers, we're absolutely spoiled for choice.

Anyways, this article isn't about treekin, it's about dryads! So let's do a similar exercise and see how their stats and special rules help or hinder them in various roles.

In the old role, they excelled as fighty redirectors. You could take them in units of 8 (keeping the cost of the unit under 100 points) and they skirmished, which gave them mobility. Both of these advantages have gone. The new dryads could still redirect, but much less effectively and at a higher cost. On top of that, we still have our eagles. And if you need more, you can get up to four units of five scouts, which come at 80 points with hagbane tips. And four more units of wardancers at 75 points. Either of those options make for better redirectors, cheaper and more mobile. If you still need more redirectors after that, you could use units of ten dryads for the role. They will be outperformed, but oh well. Also, send me your army list because who the hell needs more than ten redirecting units!!?

So dryads are no longer a truly viable choice for redirecting. But hey, in the old days, we used to beg for the new book to allow them to rank up right? So now that we have that, what about the big blocks? Do dryads work well as a horde formation? Can they win combats with the support of static bonuses?

The answer here, unfortunately, is no again. There's two main reasons for this. The lesser reason is their 25mm base size. This occasionally means less models attacking in combat, which is of course a pity. Mostly though, this makes already below average mobility poorer still. And finally, this makes it hard for elven characters to join the unit. This last problem leads to the second (and bigger) reason why dryads aren't a good big size combat unit. They can't create static combat resolution bonus other than their ranks. So if you put them against another big block of infantry, chances are you start the round of combat with something like -2.5 (banner, bsb, musician. Or banner, magic standard and musician or something like that) combat resolution already. This without even considering characters. Of course, the other unit will be more expensive (or have fewer models), but the point is, as a big block of infantry, dryads fail to find suitable targets for them. Too slow and too expensive to clear chaff, not enough static combat resolution to go against similar big infantry blocks.

On top of that, their strength 3 means that they do little damage. So chances are that even in a favourable matchup (medium size mediocre combat unit with nothing except regular full command … but really, who would take that?), the dryads will struggle. They may win combat, but it'll take them a long time to grind through the unit, if the break tests don’t help.

Let's mathhammer this to illustrate. Let's put 20 dryads in four ranks of five (220 pts) against a unit of 15 eternal guard with shields, full command and a gleaming pennant (215 pts). The dryads get the charge.

The eternal guard, without counting on a bsb or a general, have 83.3% chance of making their fear test. With the gleaming pennant this becomes 97.2%.

The EG will strike first and will reroll their to hit rolls. This is actually one of the uncommon situations in which the one point drop in initiative hurts the dryads. Usually, dryads will still have higher initiative so that doesn't make that much of a difference. Anyways, the EG hit on 3+ and will fight in three ranks, so fifteen attacks plus one extra for the champion. This amounts to 14.22 hits. Actually, if you really want to nitpick, 14.06 hits if you consider 2.8% of the attacks were made with fear.

The hits will wound on 5+. That's 4.69 wounds. And the dryads' ward save of 6+ brings this down to 3.91 kills.

Now the 16.09 dryads will strike back. The first rank has 2 attacks, the second rank only 1. That amounts to 15 attacks as well. They will hit at 4+ but get rerolls in the first round because of hatred. This will score 11.25 hits. These will wound on 4+ which makes for 5.625 wounds. The 5+ armour save of the EG will reduce this to 3.75 kills.

In short, the amount of firepower between the two units is fairly similar (the EG do slightly more damage). The EG get the banner but have one less rank than the dryads and so the dryads win this round of combat on the charge.

In consequent turns, if the dryads and the EG stick around, the dryads will have it harder to hit because of hatred no longer helping. They will also lose the charge bonus. On the other hand, their front rank having 2 attacks per model will increase the amount of attacks in their favour when compared to their adversaries. In a second round, the EG will kill 2.84 dryads and the leftover dryads will cause 2.5 casualties. Notice that the loss of hatred is far less important than the amount of attacks. This will come back later! In any case, the firepower still stays fairly similar, but now the dryads will have lost the charge bonus as well and chances are actually that the result is a draw, which would mean a win for the EG due to musician.

If the dryads are still around, then chances are actually improving for them with every round. The EG loses attacks faster and so their damage output goes down. The dryads on the other hand, keep on dealing similar amount of damage.

To conclude, in a good matchup for the dryads (medium average fighting infantry unit with no big extras), combat is a very close thing for two turns, then starts going more and more in their favour with every subsequent turn. So yes, they could take out units like this (that nobody takes), if they're a little lucky with the initial close results and if you don't mind waiting for three turns for them to do so.

Can we all agree that this is not the stuff of inspiration yet? Would you like me to make a simulation in which thirty dryads take on thirty EG (in this case, the EG won't lose rank bonuses and attacks that fast, the dryads will flee pretty much every time)

So dryads, as it seems, really aren't very efficient in taking on big blocks of infantry. A unit of 30 dryads is an overpriced, slow, inefficient hazard that unless if it stays away from anything remotely its own size and value, will be running more towards your own table edge than anywhere else.

So if not as a hammer, then how about an anvil?

This has been suggested here and there and the answer is quite short. With Leadership 8 and the lack of characters and command (and magic banners and such), they are far too prone to breaking. In this way, dryads are very much like treekin. They have the combat stats for being an anvil, but not the morale.

Nope; unfortunately and alas, none of these roles fit the dryads.

However, before we bury them forever, let's take another look at those stats and special rules. Let's see if there's something there to redeem them after all.

Movement 5, Weapon skill 4, Strength 3, Initiative 5 and Leadership 8 are all around average. However, toughness 4 bears some thinking about. Especially with a 6+ ward save. This makes dryads better than most (and much better than the rest of our non-monstrous troops barring sisters) at resisting fire. Bows will struggle to do a lot of damage to them and even crossbows will have it a lot harder than against regular elves. More importantly though, dryads are immune to psychology. This is a big deal. In an army that will take heavy casualties from concentrated shooting, you really want your opponent to focus on dryads.

A lot of people here have said that they don't like dryads in small units, as they draw fire from your opponent and as such provide easy points. This is, in my opinion, a complete mistake. You want your opponents to shoot at the dryads! That way they're doing less damage, and there's no risk of panic reactions. In this way, units of ten dryads can prove quite valuable to your army by attracting some gunfire. Even if your opponent scores the points (which again, he'll only get from annihilating the unit, as it won't panic), it's only 110 and more importantly, it means your other units survived. It's very unlikely for a game of warhammer to walk away without giving any points to your opponent and if ten dryads are easy to dispose of, then well, they are also disposable.

You could even use the dryads as a screen for a bigger, more important unit to walk behind (say, rangers). The dryads will provide cover and will take much more of a ballistic beating than the rangers could, thus ensuring the latter could actually make it to the front lines.

Interestingly enough, the immune to psychology rule actually favours small units. A unit of 30 strong would need to suffer 8 casualties in one shooting phase in order to take a panic check. Immune to psychology doesn't mean that much for such a big unit. But a unit of 10 would otherwise be a serious risk. Dryads however, just don't care and will happily soak up the pain for you.

So one use for dryads, in small units, is to attract shooting. Either by presenting points to grab or by working as a first line screen. In either case, a small unit is better.

However, this is still not the most important stat of the dryad. To me, what really defines them is the 2 attacks.

This is again, something that favours small units. Only the front rank will ever provide the 2 attacks of the profile, so the larger the unit, the less you make use of it. Think of it in this way, the 11 points cost of the dryad includes 2 attacks. If they only had 1 attack, they'd probably be worth only 8 points. So if you're taking a unit of 20 in ranks of five, you're basically buying 15 dryads at 11 points where they're only providing you 8 points of value (assuming of course, that the 11 points is a fair amount to start with).

The mathhammer example above made this clear. Despite losing hatred after the first combat round, the dryads will actually start performing better in consequent rounds against a similar size opponent in which the damage output is equal. This is because while you eventually start losing support attacks, as long as you keep the frontline intact, you keep on having double attacks for those, which means that your attack ratio starts going up compared to your opponent. This does not mean that dryads prefer longer combats! Quite the contrary (because they lose hatred after the first round). It means that dryads work better 10 vs 10 than 20 vs 20 or, even worse, 30 vs 30.

If you ever want to make dryads work for you, you need to make use of their asset, which is two attacks per model in the front. In other words, the smaller the unit, the more you're working with the strength of the unit, rather than the weakness (such as lack of mobility). To me, dryads are a lot like witch elves in that regard. Cheap, but with a lot of attacks. Their strength is low, but in small units their attack output is relatively high, which compensates. After all, 15 dryad attacks, assuming 11.25 hits with hatred will statistically speaking inflict 1.875 wounds even when requiring 6+.

Speaking of hatred, this too is a rule that favours small units. It's only for one round of combat, so big units (who tend to hang out in longer combats) see a diminishing return of investment. As an example, imagine two units of 10 dryads. They will each get 15 attacks in their respective first rounds of combat, meaning 30 attacks on hatred. Compare this to a single unit of 20. This unit will still only get 15 attacks on hatred, thus being less efficient at it.

Since we're discussing the special rules of dryads, let's take a look at another one. Dryads cause fear. This isn't as good as it once was, but it still can influence the game quite a bit. Funny thing is, fear is unit based. If a single model in a unit touches a fear causing enemy, then the entire unit has to take a fear test and suffer from the results if it fails. You may have guessed, but this means that fear is yet another rule that favours small units. Dryads can be used to project fear into combat. Whether there's ten or twenty or two hundred of them makes no difference in this regard.

These two special rules, together with the two attacks make dryad excellent support combat units. In fact, a good way to think of them is by drawing a comparison to the Empire's detachment system. Attach a unit of ten dryads to a bigger, stronger combat unit. Then use the dryads to provide a heap of extra hatred attacks and to cause fear. Even if the dryads don't make much of a difference, chances are they won't take too much damage themselves. And the fear might make the difference for the other unit. Your opponent needs to fail the test only once for combat to have a big shift.

Take this example. You have 20 eternal guard and they receive a frontal charge of a unit of 10 knights. At strength 6 and with the horses attacking as well, the knights will likely take out about 5 of your EG. Thankfully, the EG are stubborn, because they're probably only getting one kill in at most through the heavy armour. However, in your next turn, you can flank charge with the dryads and bring fear into play. If it (the fear) works, awesome. The knights are now cake. If it doesn't work, still great, 15 extra hatred attacks will likely cause another wound. Add another one from the EG and the knights are suddenly in big trouble (considering they're now only at strength 4).

Take another example. Reverse the roles, say your wild riders are smashing into a bunch of elven spearmen. Hopefully, they'll break them on the charge. But if they don't, you're suddenly in trouble. But ten fear causing hateful dryads in a follow up charge will ensure your victory.

Or let's assume a treeman in combat with a large unit of orks. The treeman's strength 5 will mean he's not going to be wounding as happily as he would like, at only 3+. This means that the damage he causes might be a bit too low. At best, this could prolong the combat beyond your desire. At worst, your treeman might be grinded down himself. But again, adding some dryads can make the difference here. Again, fear (especially considering fear has to be checked every round again). But if not, then still the sheer amount of attacks that the dryads add, with hatred to ensure a lot of hits in the first round.

To resume this tactical article: here's some roles in which dryads do not perform well

Redirecting (too expensive, too immobile)
Large Anvil Unit (hold up enemies for allowing the hammers to get in place, too much risk of breaking)
Tarpit/speedbump (hold up units. Too likely to flee for tarpit, too expensive and slow for speedbumps)
Hammer unit (not enough damage output, no command and characters)
Big combat block (not enough static combat resolution, no command and characters)

And luckily, here are some roles in which small units of dryads can perform well:

Support combat (Basically, join a combat between other units. The dryads will bring a ton of extra hits and some extra static combat resolution. Just be careful not to go into units that will cause more damage than the extra combat bonus will provide)
Fear projection
Fire Magnet (screen for your important units)
Free Roaming hunters (chaff, warmachines, previously decimated units)

As such, I would typically take two or three units of 10 dryads even in the new army book. One unit that functions as a detachment to the forest-sitting eternal guard with characters. Another one as a screen and later support unit for rangers or wild riders. And possibly one more to move around a bit more in a free role.

I appreciate that this may only be one point of view. I encourage everyone to share their opinion and to give arguments in favour of another use (or no use at all). Or arguments against what I propose. This is just my point of view. This is how I see dryads working, but it doesn't mean it's the only way to do so (nor even a correct way to do so).

Anyways, thank you all. Cheers.
User avatar
GeoffDiGeoff
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 121
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 13:49
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Dark Elves
Location: Surrey

Re: dryad tactics

Post by GeoffDiGeoff »

Nice write up :) I love my dryads, although I tend to run them in bigger groups, as an anvil, going for a flank charge for WR or WHR. Looking at what you've detailed, I'm going to trying running MSU of them. I can imagine lining up for a dual charge with 2 units of 10, one front, one side. Hopefully I'll get a game tomorrow to try it.

Thanks for doing all the work!
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I have 10 Dryads in my latest list. Firstly because I need a third redirector and Special/Rare is full up. I've found that Dryads will sometimes hold here or enough survive to block usefully later. Secondly as a light combat unit to push back enemy light troops or support charge (again Special/Rare is full). They're not mega-efficient but being Core is very helpful.
Etheneus
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 107
Joined: 27 Apr 2014, 19:23
Armies I play: Wood Elf
Location: Skövde, Sweden

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Etheneus »

Thanks for the writeup. I would love to bring my dryads (witch I painted like sprigans from Skyrim) to the table again. Now I feel confident I will.
User avatar
popisdead
Former Council Member
Posts: 3096
Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 04:22
Location: Blackwater Park

Re: dryad tactics

Post by popisdead »

Great write up, this should be a Leaf article.

I think people forgot Dryads have long been a great screen from xbows and bolt throwers.
everything plog
ork plog

"Yaaay for T7 Grots!"
User avatar
godswearhats
Elder of the Council
Posts: 1950
Joined: 19 Oct 2012, 18:20
Armies I play: Wood Elves
Location: Wexford, IE
Contact:

Re: dryad tactics

Post by godswearhats »

Pinned this article, for LEAF consideration.
Rank and Flank: A Warhammer: The Old World Podcast and Discord
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: dryad tactics

Post by hutobega »

I personally still love the idea of 10 man unit of dryads and a few branchwraith sprinkled around :)
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
GeoffDiGeoff
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 121
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 13:49
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Dark Elves
Location: Surrey

Re: dryad tactics

Post by GeoffDiGeoff »

Quick question, would you bother adding a nymph in a 10 man unit? I suppose yes if you plan on fighting but doesn't add anything for fear or fire magnet roles.
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Best reason I can see for that is to challenge out a powerful character, to make sure the unit tests Steadfast.

I think you have to have more than one possible use for the unit for it to be worth it.
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: dryad tactics

Post by NonnoSte »

Indeed a great analysis edmondj.
It's curious I came up with a similar conclusion about Treekin when I built my MSU army with the new book release. On paper a unit of 3 as a support assault unit shouldn't give away too much CR granting almost always a +2 if charging on a flank.
Anyway in the end I found it hard to manouver them well enough to ensure those flank charges (same problem they had in the old book) and I ended up using them solo on a flank to slow down fast flankers or to set WR counter charges.
Last edited by NonnoSte on 10 Oct 2014, 14:50, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Git
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 407
Joined: 05 Apr 2011, 11:34
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins, Skaven
Location: Norway

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Git »

I think this may be the longest pictureless forum post I've read all the way through. Very interesting, and well worth keeping in mind when considering our possibilities.
User avatar
Ember of the Hidden Paths
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 342
Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 11:18

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Ember of the Hidden Paths »

I have expressed dissatisfaction with dryads ever since they reared their head in this edition. Having read the entirety of your tactica, which I might add is one of the best I have ever read, I agree with you about the potential uses of dryads. Well put! And thanks a lot!
One does not simply take a Wild Rider charge...
Coldpsyker
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 66
Joined: 01 Feb 2014, 04:32

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Coldpsyker »

GeoffDiGeoff wrote:Quick question, would you bother adding a nymph in a 10 man unit? I suppose yes if you plan on fighting but doesn't add anything for fear or fire magnet roles.
You get an extra attack and the ability to give and receive challenges. It also gets hilarious very quickly if you roll with lore of beasts and get savage beast.
edmondj
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 50
Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 08:03

Re: dryad tactics

Post by edmondj »

Coldpsyker wrote:
GeoffDiGeoff wrote:Quick question, would you bother adding a nymph in a 10 man unit? I suppose yes if you plan on fighting but doesn't add anything for fear or fire magnet roles.
You get an extra attack and the ability to give and receive challenges. It also gets hilarious very quickly if you roll with lore of beasts and get savage beast.

I wouldn't take the nymph myself. It's ten points that could buy you something more fun like one of those cheap magic items (dragon helm, luck stone, charmed shield, banner odd eternal flame, potion of foolhardiness,... There's tons of good options). Or it could buy you a champion for your wild riders, where the extra attack is much more likely to do something for you and the ability to challenge could make a big difference.

Also, if you go for beasts and you get savage beast (neither of which are that likely), there's much better targets for that too. You would lose the hilarity factor I guess, but you'd like those extra high strength attacks to hit and the nymph doesn't have the weapon skill for it, unless you can cast it in the first round with hatred rerolls (imagine what that would do to a unit of knights)

Finally, thanks for the positive feedback guys! In very happy some of you are reconsidering dryads a little. I'm sure they won't make the core of the army in a serious build. But even then, one or two small units could be valid. If I convinced you of that, then I feel like a job well done!
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Savage Beast doesn't work on unit champs in 8th.

The question is whether it's worth upping the unit to 120 to slow a Dragon or similar rampaging through the army. Dryads can't flee of course. But part of their job is to die if necessary. If I had 10 Core points left to spend I'd probably go for it but it's not priority #1.
CauCaSus
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 352
Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 16:08

Re: dryad tactics

Post by CauCaSus »

This are the best arguments I've read for taking dryads since the army book got released.

Not sure the Fear projection is worth it because a lot of stuff is high Ld w/reroll or simply immune. Fire magnet relies on your opponent being bad at target priority or having stuff hidden behind the dryads (depends on the rest of your list if this is a problem). Free roaming hunters: sure I guess. Although we have other units that are better at it and cheaper as well.

Great write up though! Like I said, a lot better than the other pro-dryads posts I've read.
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

It's all about Core IMHO, that's the beauty of Dryads.

Probably the best redirector there for example.
User avatar
Noght
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 727
Joined: 10 Jan 2011, 13:53
Armies I play: Empire, Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins
Location: Normal, IL

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Noght »

My current Dryad tactic is to consider selling them and buying fun other fun stuff, say Glade Riders...

On an insane note, I bought more MageKnight Wood and Vine Golems to convert into Treekin, shooting for 3 groups of 6. :sexy:
"Spirit of the Game arguments are used by Role Players who get their A$$es kicked by Wargammers."
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Aezeal »

Well if you are talking about core.. I'm saying glade guard :D
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Absolutely, I've got 30 of them. But the last ten models are Dryads because they fill a tactical gap for the list.
edmondj
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 50
Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 08:03

Re: dryad tactics

Post by edmondj »

Phil Rossiter wrote:It's all about Core IMHO, that's the beauty of Dryads.

Probably the best redirector there for example.

Hey Phil,

You've been mentioning the core argument a couple of times now. It's a good argument, and I'll adapt the original post so that it includes this point as well. Thanks a lot for the contribution!

However, I really can't stress enough that it's not the point I was wanting to make. It's true that dryads can work as redirectors if you find no more place in your special allowance. Being core helps in that regard. But to me, the absolute number one reason in favour of dryads is that they're the best at what they do. Which is combat support.

I'll mathhammer you two more examples. First, a unit of three treekin (as NonnoSte had mentioned them as a possible alternative) and then a unit of wildwood rangers.

So the basic setup is as follows. One of your main combat units is dishing it out with one of the main combat units of your opponent. Let's say you have 40 eternal guard being attacked by 40 orc big 'uns. First, let us see what a second round flank charge of the dryads will do.

The dryads will strike first and will project fear. Let's ignore that for a while. There's 15 attacks hitting on 4+ with rerolls for hatred. That's 11.25 hits. Wounding on 5+ yields 3.75 wounds and with light armour that equals 3.13 kills. The orcs will strike back with only 10 attacks, yielding only 5 hits. These 5 hits will result in 2.5 wounds and with the ward save, that becomes 2.08 kills.

Now let's take the treekin. And let's first point out that the opponent I've chosen is pretty much the ideal matchup for the treekin. Unarmoured opponents would mean their extra strength point loses a bit of efficiency. Cavalry or such would mean you don't get stomp. And elves or skaven or such would mean you get to strike last and as such, risk having less attacks. Anyways, your treekin will attack 9 times, causing only 4.5 hits. These will only cause 2.25 wounds. Now the orcs attack, with 10 attacks causing 5 hits for 3.33 wounds. The 5+ armour save reduces this to 2.22 and the ward save to 1.85 unsaved wounds. This goes to show that while in this example, you indeed get all your attacks (including the stomps), it doesn't take a lot of bad luck to lose out. Slightly below average rolling will see you a treekin dead. And against higher initiative opponents, this could change the result drastically. The dryads on the other hand, as long as they have that front rank intact, will pump out a high number of attacks. Anyways, we still have 3 stomp hits, which will cause another 1.5 kill. This brings the treekin total to 3.75. That's about half a wound more than the dryads. But again, it's the ideal matchup for the treekin. And in the next round of combat, you're down one treekin anyways and your efficiency will plumet. Moreover, the treekin are almost a quarter more expensive and finally, yes Phil, they come out of special.

Each to their own, but I'd go for dryads between these two.

Now, let's take 10 wildwood rangers. Again, the chosen opponent (with armour, low intiative and most of all, WS4) favours the rangers. A WS3 opponent would swing the example in favour of the dryads as, ironically, would a WS5 one. Anyways; the rangers will have 10 attacks with rerolls at 3+ for 8.89 hits. Wounding on 3+ will then yield 5.93 kills. That's huge! The orcs will cause more damage as well though, with 10 attacks causing 5 hits for 3.33 kills. Still, if you were to compare damage caused to received for the dryads you'd get 1.5 (3.13 kills caused divided by 2.08 kills taken back). The rangers stand at 1.78. So in the first round, the rangers will actually be better statistically. However, as we've seen a couple of times already, things change in following rounds, when the dryads start getting more and more advantage from having 2 attacks in the frontline. In a hypothetical second round, the dryads will still have 86.11% of their attacks. (12.92 out of the original 15). The rangers however, will only have 66.67% of their attacks left (6.67 out of 10). And with every consequent round, this difference will grow bigger. Grow bigger in the same way that your ranger unit grows smaller and smaller, puny elves just not handling the hurt in the way my dryads can.

Bringing back the argument that the rangers do not cause fear; A failed fear test would greatly change the example above. And a unit of big 'uns is certainly not immune to it. Assuming LD9, there's a 16.67% change for the orcs to fail their fear test. At LD8 with a reroll, there's still a 7.71% chance.

Finally, the rangers are much more prone to suffer from missile fire before this example takes place. To me, this is the main reason why rangers do not work well as a 'detachment' unit. They're too vulnerable to fire. And since they rely on their entire unit for their damage output (whereas dryads mostly rely on their front rank), a single volley of arrows could take out far too much of their efficiency.

Anyways, thanks a lot for all the feedback guys!
Gwill_of_the_Woods
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 702
Joined: 23 Aug 2013, 10:45
Armies I play: Wood Elves, AoS - Dwarf/Empire mix
Location: Swansea, Wales

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Hi edmondj,

Really enjoying the summaries so far. One thing though, you mention that the WWR get re-rolls with their attacks but they don't due to losing the ASF bonuses because the wield great weapons.

I will actually give the dryads a go.
Long live the King in the Woods!!!
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: dryad tactics

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I disagree edmond because I don't think the example would come up in competitive play.

Every time I have fought O&G in a tournament the Big'uns block has been Savage, with Lucky Shrunken Head Shaman, BSB and often other characters. You might find a block of 40 EG in a decent WE list but it would be very unusual. 3 Treekin and 10 Rangers are I agree with you, way too fragile. But comparing a passable unit to bad ones is not enough to justify it IMHO.

A combat scenario where the WE unit gets a flank charge is also a bit optimistic I feel. What if the enemy gets a flank charge? What if the Dryads (who can't Flee) get charged?

The Dryads have made it into my list for the reasons I gave earlier. If you could give an example edmond of a decent (not necessarily strong) list with them in that would be very helpful. Particularly to show how they would do a better job than picks from outside of Core.
User avatar
popisdead
Former Council Member
Posts: 3096
Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 04:22
Location: Blackwater Park

Re: dryad tactics

Post by popisdead »

godswearhats wrote:Pinned this article, for LEAF consideration.
Awesome :thumbsup:
everything plog
ork plog

"Yaaay for T7 Grots!"
User avatar
liesmith
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1925
Joined: 27 Dec 2008, 21:58
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Beastmen
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: dryad tactics

Post by liesmith »

Phil Rossiter wrote:The Dryads have made it into my list for the reasons I gave earlier. If you could give an example edmond of a decent (not necessarily strong) list with them in that would be very helpful. Particularly to show how they would do a better job than picks from outside of Core.
I'd love to see an example list, too. I'm not disagreeing with the points made in this article and I certainly want to dust off the dryads, but some inspiration would be nice.
Locked