Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Share your tactical prowess and learn new ways of beating your foes with all the might of the Asrai.

Moderator: Council of Elders

User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

I'm dithering about how many boxes of Wildwood Rangers I'll need.

There's no question in my mind that I must have some, but two boxes, three or even four?

Let's imagine we're talking about all-comers lists in the 1k to 2.5k range. I'm using Glade guard core and lots of them, so the bad guys will be coming to me and I want Rangers handy to take down the thinned-out blocks.

My first instinct is that 21, full command, 7x3 formation sounds good. Add the Banner of Swiftness or maybe Eternal Flame where points permit. That's anywhere between fifteen and twenty-nine Str5 whacks at respectable initiative. Even at the lower end of the scale that's pointy enough that the enemy won't be committing anything but a dedicated hammer unit to mop them up. All for 261 points less Banner.

Trouble is, that's a whole 'nother box of minis for one model...

For that, why not twenty, five wide?

Or, conceivably, we could go all they way to a horde of forty - plus banner that's nigh 500 points, but standing in an Abyssal Wood that's a huge chunk of points that's very, very scary for anyone to come and get.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Why not go 20 and deploy 7,7,6?

If you have a foot BSB he can join the unit if necessary because it'll need re-rolls.
User avatar
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
Posts: 17411
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Beithir Seun »

The current setup I have in mind is a unit of 20 accompanied by a Glade Captain with GW, formed up in 3x7. I will admit that the inclusion of the Glade Captain is partly because I don't want to have to buy a third box for one model, either (but I probably will eventually anyway!)
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Fitz
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 368
Joined: 03 Jan 2009, 17:31
Armies I play: Dwarves, Wood Elves, Tyranids
Location: The Ashdown Forest

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Fitz »

I'm pretty sure that the universe wouldn't explode with judicious use of well modelled unit fillers either. I fully plan on fielding the 20 models I have ordered as a unit of 30 at some point and I'm going to derive as much modelling joy from creating some nice scenic tree-fillers as I will from building the kit itself.
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by hutobega »

20 with the Araloth model as my captain or whatever with Hail of doom arrow just to keep him in a forest most likely waiting to pounce on enemies that get to close to my line
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
Pigey
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 182
Joined: 27 Nov 2013, 20:21

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Pigey »

Anybody on MSU with these guys? I wondered if some more exprienced people than me could give some advice on a possible MSU with WWR.
User avatar
LadyLoec
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 112
Joined: 07 May 2014, 19:31
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Empire, Warriors of Chaos, Skaven, Dark Elves, Dwarves
Location: Peterborough

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by LadyLoec »

Once we see the sprues for them, it should be more apparent whether you'd be willing to get the 3rd box for 1 model or not. Depending on the spares/conversion potential/etc, it might be worth having the remainder in your bitbox for projects anyway.
User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

Phil Rossiter wrote: If you have a foot BSB he can join the unit if necessary because it'll need re-rolls.
I always use a foot BSB, I just don't really think our characters have any business being on the front lines. He's got a flag, a bow and a Hail of Doom Arrow, he has no business going toe to toe with anything that I want Rangers to fight. High and Dark Elf characters get stuck in and best of luck to them, but we're clearly not supposed to be in mellee with ours.

Lady Loec makes a good point, though. I get the feeling that there is significant conversion possibilities in this kit.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
Merlin Elf friend
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 129
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 13:11

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Merlin Elf friend »

Just an off the wall thought; could a Branchwraith be used for that extra model also, she could get Earth Blood for regening unit?
jer732
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Aug 2008, 14:37

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by jer732 »

Branch wraith has a different base size so would be put off to the side.
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Ioreth Starmantle wrote:I always use a foot BSB, I just don't really think our characters have any business being on the front lines. He's got a flag, a bow and a Hail of Doom Arrow, he has no business going toe to toe with anything that I want Rangers to fight. High and Dark Elf characters get stuck in and best of luck to them, but we're clearly not supposed to be in mellee with ours.
With respect, this is way too simplistic. Yes, WE's can work very well without combat characters, that doesn't mean they don't work. They are a useful option, depending on list. I guess if you're playing a bowline then Hail of Doom makes some sense but I've always felt that a model costing well over 100pts should be doing more than just one mega-shot.
Pigey wrote:Anybody on MSU with these guys?
I wondered the same. The lack of protection is a serious issue for larger units but with MSU you can afford the loss of one or two units better and something like Convocation hurts a lot less.
Merlin Elf friend wrote:Just an off the wall thought; could a Branchwraith be used for that extra model also, she could get Earth Blood for regening unit?
She won't fit in the unit (differing base size) but she can sit on the end and might be very useful for a WWR block.
Merlin Elf friend
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 129
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 13:11

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Merlin Elf friend »

Good point; second choice would be Glade Captain with some protection, GW, and HoDA; an unexpected Stand and Shoot reaction could come in handy!
User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

Phil Rossiter wrote: With respect, this is way too simplistic. Yes, WE's can work very well without combat characters, that doesn't mean they don't work. They are a useful option, depending on list. I guess if you're playing a bowline then Hail of Doom makes some sense but I've always felt that a model costing well over 100pts should be doing more than just one mega-shot.
I think I see it the other way around. I'm not bringing him along for one mega shot, I'm bringing him for Leadership rerolls, the HoDA is just a bonus. But given that he is worth over a hundred points, provides a very important service and yields bonus victory points, I don't want that guy getting stabbed if there's somewhere safe he can stand and wave his little flag.


As for your more general point, we can do frontline combat characters, it just seems like playing against the grain of the book for no real advantage. For the cost of an arse-kicking glade Captain I could have a whole 'nother rank of Rangers.

I think my words were 'don't have any business on the front lines' and 'not supposed to be in mellee', which seems about right. We can build a mellee character, but he doesn't really bring anything to the table and the book doesn't seem written to support it.

Which I'm actually okay with. We all have to follow our hearts and if you want frontline fighty characters, god speed.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Phil Rossiter »

All BSB's grant re-rolls. We need to get more use out of the character than just that. What you equip the guy with depends. Shooty (seems you might want Bow of Loren as well Ioreth) is Ok if you're running a bowline. You still need to watch out for your bunker getting shot, magicked or charged though. In some ways, a unit of 20 or so elves that can fight is a safer place as I can relate from experience.

It's also generally a good idea not to assume you know everything about a book that's been out for five minutes. All over the world, in tournaments, leagues, gaming groups players were trying all sorts of things with the old book and are now with the new. Do either of us know everything about these?

You are not buying a whole new fighting character, you are multi-tasking the BSB you need anyway. Being able to advance that guy when necessary can be useful. Tanking hits you don't want to take on 6+ AS can be useful, S6 can be useful. Yes, a fighting character makes most sense in an aggressive list. I suggest you try a few games with one before condemning it out of hand.
User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

Phil Rossiter wrote:
It's also generally a good idea not to assume you know everything about a book that's been out for five minutes. All over the world, in tournaments, leagues, gaming groups players were trying all sorts of things with the old book and are now with the new. Do either of us know everything about these?
Good point, well made.

I still stand by my 'go stand way over there, Mr. BSB' feelings, but it does remain to be seen how much a fighty character can actually bring to the table once the dust has settled.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Phil Rossiter »

When six months have gone by and I and anyone else running combat lists have had our asses handed to us multiple times I'll eat humble pie on this. But not until!

:)
User avatar
Polycotton
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 May 2014, 06:29

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Polycotton »

Beithir Seun wrote:The current setup I have in mind is a unit of 20 accompanied by a Glade Captain with GW, formed up in 3x7. I will admit that the inclusion of the Glade Captain is partly because I don't want to have to buy a third box for one model, either (but I probably will eventually anyway!)
When going big I'm planning on going 7x3 and using my as yet unopened Wood Elf hero with Great Weapon as the 21st model for the unit as I don't see myself needing a Wood Elf hero on foot much. I will definitely run two units of 10 in certain matchups as well.
User avatar
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
Posts: 17411
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Beithir Seun »

Polycotton wrote:
Beithir Seun wrote:The current setup I have in mind is a unit of 20 accompanied by a Glade Captain with GW, formed up in 3x7. I will admit that the inclusion of the Glade Captain is partly because I don't want to have to buy a third box for one model, either (but I probably will eventually anyway!)
When going big I'm planning on going 7x3 and using my as yet unopened Wood Elf hero with Great Weapon as the 21st model for the unit as I don't see myself needing a Wood Elf hero on foot much. I will definitely run two units of 10 in certain matchups as well.

Exactly the model I was thinking of as well :smirk:

I'd like to see how small units of 10 could work. As always, I'm a little concerned about whether they'd survive long enough to have an impact, as it seems ridiculously easy to wipe out 10 practically unarmoured models from a safe distance, but I guess they have the advantage that in such a small unit they might go unnoticed/ignored by opponents who will have more important targets to worry about...
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Skadoosh
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 30
Joined: 05 May 2014, 13:53

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Skadoosh »

Here's a idea I'm throwing around in my head.
the units of 20 Rangers with a Shadow Dancer. I'd equip the shadow dancer with Gltitering Scales or potion of str if I'm feeling lucky. Shadow dancer offers a lot to the unit. He can accept challenges, he can deny ranks(remember you get rank bonus's in woods but not steadfast so this is a huge deal to deny those 1-3 combat res), he can grab an extra attack for when you pop the potion, and he can get KB and either have a good chance at knocking the head off a chaos lord or forcing a general or bsb to decline a challenge. He's a little expensive, but a much better fit for the unit than the glade captain who is see as just too frail to ever want to be in one of my main combat blocks.
User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

I considered the Shadow Dancer m'self, but the truth is, for all his advantages (as you list) he's expensive, still not very difficult to kill and cannot carry the Moonstone, which is the only job I'd want a character in a Ranger unit to do.

Although I do agree, ASF KB would be nice to have if you get the chance for a whack at the enemy's characters.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
User avatar
SpanielBear
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 136
Joined: 01 Jan 2014, 02:21

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by SpanielBear »

One thought I had was having a moonstone BSB in a ranger unit, and a shadow dancer close to the woods where you intend to teleport. BSB delivers the unit, then the shadowdancer uses his lore to switch places. Your BSB is nearby but no longer at risk (assuming your shadowdancer was in a safe enough place), and the shadowdancer is able to do his thing with a unit champion to absorb unwanted challenges.
Have Fun, Stay Sane, Enjoy the Madness.
User avatar
Polycotton
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 76
Joined: 05 May 2014, 06:29

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Polycotton »

Skadoosh wrote:Here's a idea I'm throwing around in my head.
the units of 20 Rangers with a Shadow Dancer. I'd equip the shadow dancer with Gltitering Scales or potion of str if I'm feeling lucky. Shadow dancer offers a lot to the unit. He can accept challenges, he can deny ranks(remember you get rank bonus's in woods but not steadfast so this is a huge deal to deny those 1-3 combat res), he can grab an extra attack for when you pop the potion, and he can get KB and either have a good chance at knocking the head off a chaos lord or forcing a general or bsb to decline a challenge. He's a little expensive, but a much better fit for the unit than the glade captain who is see as just too frail to ever want to be in one of my main combat blocks.
I like the idea of the jack of all trades Shadow Dancer but he seems like a risky fellow due to how easily he is killed. Killing blow can be a great mind games tool though. People often don't want to take the risk no matter how small. Having said that I like how cheap a unit of 21 Rangers are and don't really want to bulk them out with a character. Eons ago when I played Wood Elves regularly I never had any units worth more than 200 victory points aside from a Treemen so a 125.5 slave unit of Rangers is already pushing things, I was definitely in the MSU assault army crowd.
User avatar
Ioreth Starmantle
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 89
Joined: 20 Oct 2013, 13:22
Armies I play: Bretonnia, Vampire Counts
Location: Isle of Wight

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

I've got a couple of old Island of Blood Swordmasters in my bitz box. I'm thinking with a little greenstuff and spares from the Ranger sprue I can make a champion to get 21 bods out of two boxes.

To confirm the posibility of this I just had a look at the pictures on GW's site and... does anybody else think that the model on the left - the one closest to us is a woman?


It'd be really nice to think that GW is doing mixed combat infantry units for something other than Dark elves.
'Learn well Nature's sole law, for it is thus: Hunt or be hunted, kill or be killed. Know too that the only reason anything ever dies is because it no longer deserves to live! Should have fought harder, should have grown stronger.'
- Ioreth Starmantle, Waywatcher Highborn
User avatar
Rogue Sun
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 365
Joined: 10 May 2011, 06:09
Location: Colorado, US

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Rogue Sun »

Ioreth Starmantle wrote:It'd be really nice to think that GW is doing mixed combat infantry units for something other than Dark elves.
You might want to take a look at the Wardancer models at some point... ;)
User avatar
Kojibear
Master Greeter
Posts: 239
Joined: 01 Dec 2010, 11:49
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Space Marines - Orginal Chapter, Cryx, The Viktorias (Malifaux), Elves (Cutlass)

Re: Rangers, Formation & Use Thereof

Post by Kojibear »

Ioreth Starmantle wrote:
To confirm the posibility of this I just had a look at the pictures on GW's site and... does anybody else think that the model on the left - the one closest to us is a woman?


It'd be really nice to think that GW is doing mixed combat infantry units for something other than Dark elves.
If it is a female elf, her name is most likely Brunhilda and she is the toughest of the lot! :nod: ;)

You know GW could have sculpted a few female rangers, there are other cool scuplts that could have given them inspiration. Take this one for example:
http://studiomcvey.highwire.com/product/smm25-grizzle

or this:
http://www.axfaction.com/#!product/prd1 ... st-hunters

or this:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

:D
Locked