Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Share your tactical prowess and learn new ways of beating your foes with all the might of the Asrai.

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gabba88
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Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by gabba88 »

Hi! Which do you prefer? I think that using a static line of glade guards the wild riders are more helpful to eradicate enemies demicated by our arrows...
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Drstrangelove »

Completely different roles despite the same S value (at least when WR are charging).
WWR hit hard, but WR hit like a TON of toilet blocks. WWR on the other hand can grind out a combat.

One can find room for 5 WR in every list, finding space for 20 WWR (min size probably) is harder.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Luminith »

Id say both have potential for damage. WWR are great in a fear forest. And if you back them up with some augments/hexes, they'll have a good chance of breaking an enemy in said forest.
Wild riders are fantastic shock troops, but you rally want to pick your battles.
So I guess the real question is...what the hell are toilet blocks?!

All kidding aside, I think the best strategy is to team them up. it'd be great to have 14 (2x7) WWR and 5-6 WR combo charge.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Drstrangelove »

.......the things made of bricks with toilets inside them?
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Beithir Seun »

As Drstrangelove said, I don't think they're directly comparable because they fulfil different roles, and don't actually have that much in common to make it an either/or choice. It will obviously depend on what else is in your list, but there's no reason you can't run both in the same list as Luminith said.

I certainly plan on experimenting with teaming these units up - I face a lot of Undead, and the main problem I've always had is that I can't inflict enough damage to break their units open before they're resurrected. A unit of 21 WWR (3x7) with a flanking unit of 5 Wild Riders would put out 38 WS5 S5 and 5/10 (depending on the Frenzy question) WS3 S4 attacks on the charge - easily enough to inflict a good 15 or so casualties on typical Undead infantry, which could see you crumble a decent sized unit in a turn. Definitely something I want to try out.

EDIT: Forgot about Devastating Charge, so the WWR and WR in the example above actually put out 43 WS5 S5 and 10 WS3 S4 attacks on the charge - even better!
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by hutobega »

Toilet blocks...that's a new one!
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Luminith »

Beithir Seun wrote:As Drstrangelove said, I don't think they're directly comparable because they fulfil different roles, and don't actually have that much in common to make it an either/or choice. It will obviously depend on what else is in your list, but there's no reason you can't run both in the same list as Luminith said.

I certainly plan on experimenting with teaming these units up - I face a lot of Undead, and the main problem I've always had is that I can't inflict enough damage to break their units open before they're resurrected. A unit of 21 WWR (3x7) with a flanking unit of 5 Wild Riders would put out 38 WS5 S5 and 5/10 (depending on the Frenzy question) WS3 S4 attacks on the charge - easily enough to inflict a good 15 or so casualties on typical Undead infantry, which could see you crumble a decent sized unit in a turn. Definitely something I want to try out.
That's a solid plan. Its nice to see some cc hitting power from the elves in our army :) I don't know what kind of magic you prefer, but I think dark has some great potential against undead blocks. If you can hide your weaver in the WWR unit, word of power (I forget the names of the spells) would be very beneficial. Word of pain and bladestorm (again, don't know the names haha) is an awesome combo against a large horde of undead.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Beithir Seun »

Yes, Dark Magic definitely has a lot of potential. I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of putting my Weaver in a combat unit, and the benefit of adding +1S from Power of Darkness against Undead is minimal (they usually only have 5+AS on their infantry, so S5 is enough to nullify that anyway, without the boost). But Word of Pain to reduce WS followed by Bladestorm to force WS tests is a fantastic combo :evil: I quite like the thought of embracing our dark side :D
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Luminith »

Agreed haha
I wouldn't have put her in the unit. I think a dark spellweaver was made for a sisters unit. The +1 str for the javelins, and if you roll 3 extra powerdice you can heal her back up with shield of thorns.

Back to the topic at hand; I will personally be taking 10 wild riders in every list I make. They always have a role, no matter what style you play. WWR require special attention and list tailoring to make them shine.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Morewar »

Luminith wrote:Agreed haha
I wouldn't have put her in the unit. I think a dark spellweaver was made for a sisters unit. The +1 str for the javelins, and if you roll 3 extra powerdice you can heal her back up with shield of thorns.
Or on a unicorn, for S7 on the charge :D and the MR2 would, on top of the usual 4++, give her a 2++ against the PoD side effects.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Tethlis »

It's worth mentioning that Wild Riders still put out a lot of attacks, even when they don't charge. 4 Attacks per model is nothing to shrug at, especially when two of them are ASF and Armor Piercing as standard. Obviously they aren't durable, but I'm appreciating the fact that they don't become useless after expending their charge in the same way that most Elven cavalry is. It's really nice that they can charge a unit that doesn't have many Wounds, kill the majority of it, and continue to grind well in subsequent rounds of combat. I ran two units of 6 Wild Riders versus VC tonight, and they were golden all game. The two units accounted for a Terrorgheist, 6 Crypt Horrors, two MSU units of Ghouls and ~40 Skeletons with a minimum of external support.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by NonnoSte »

I'm sorry Tethlis, but I'm pretty sure they don't maintain Armour Piercing in rounds where they have not charged. AP is a specific rule for Asrai spears, which Wild Riders use only on the charge.
I misplayed that too yesterday.
And I also played them with frenzy only for riders. They still rolled over several imperial knights anyway...
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Tethlis »

NonnoSte wrote:I'm sorry Tethlis, but I'm pretty sure they don't maintain Armour Piercing in rounds where they have not charged. AP is a specific rule for Asrai spears, which Wild Riders use only on the charge.
I misplayed that too yesterday.
And I also played them with frenzy only for riders. They still rolled over several imperial knights anyway...
Can you expand on this?

Asrai Spears have two profiles, a mounted profile and a foot profile. Obviously we're only concerned with the mounted profile here. The weapon profile does indeed say that the +1 Strength bonus only applies in the turn that Wild Riders charge... But there's nothing that says the spear itself, or its Armor Piercing advantage, doesn't continue to work as normal. Since it doesn't say that Wild Riders must switch to a hand weapon, or provide another qualifying statement indicating that the spears stop working over prolonged rounds of combat, I don't see why Wild Riders couldn't continue to use them and receive the Armor Piercing bonus as a result.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by NonnoSte »

On the general rules for cavalry it's stated that, when not charging, the riders of cavalry models cannot use lances or spears.
So I'm reading this as they're using one handed weapons in those combats.
Or else I'm getting it wrong?
(I don't think that page reference is going to help here, since i've got just the italian IoB rulebook)
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by Lassoto »

NonnoSte wrote:On the general rules for cavalry it's stated that, when not charging, the riders of cavalry models cannot use lances or spears.
So I'm reading this as they're using one handed weapons in those combats.
Or else I'm getting it wrong?
(I don't think that page reference is going to help here, since i've got just the italian IoB rulebook)
It does indeed say that on 'normal' spears, asrai spears however are an entirely different weapon, so unless it says so in the armybook they still use the spear in subsequent rounds.

I don't have my armybook yet :angry: so I can't check whatever rules asrai spears have.
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Re: Wild Riders VS Wildwood Rangers

Post by NonnoSte »

Wow, I didn't even tought about NOT treating them as normal spears.
I assumed they were normal spears with AP on top of them.
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