Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

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joeschmidt
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Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by joeschmidt »

Hey guys,

I have been mulling this one over since I bought the book. Here is what I have gotten so far:

Eternal Guard
+ Core
+ Stubborn is great
- S3/T3
- 30+ needed for strong unit


Wildwood Rangers
+ Great Weapons
+ Monster Hunters
- Special
- T3

I am leaning towards Rangers, and just filling up the core with Glade Guard/Riders (or Dryads if I am feeling fluffy). How do you think you will run them? What unit sizes best suit their various abilities?
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Waywatching »

I personally intend to use Eternal Guard. They'll hold better and are (slightly) more survivable. It also means I can fill up my core with Eternals and Glade Riders so I can opt for scouts over Glade Guard.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by minionboy »

I'm torn as well, really though it's a matter of Core. If you're fine with your core full of Glade Riders and Glade Guard, then go with Wildwood Rangers. If your'e building an army where you need the points in special, but are sure you want a combat block, then EG will be fine.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Tethlis »

Good questions. This is one I've been giving a lot of thought to. I've tried WWR, and have been fairly pleased, but they aren't in the same class as the elite infantry from the other Elven armies. You have to manage your expectations to a degree.

I am wrestling with the idea of Eternal Guard Core, with Special invested in Hagbane Scouts.

Or Glade Guard Core, with Special invested in Wildwood Rangers.

If going with the first option, I think that the Acorn of Ages with Venom Thickets is pretty much mandatory to give hitting power to the Eternal Guard. Strength 3 is never good by itself. In fact, I hate it so much that I still distrust it on sheer principle, even though stocking up on Eternal Guard would free up points for Scouts which are a big improvement over Glade Guard.

I've been pleased with the Glade Guard + WWR so far, so next up I'll try the Eternal Guard + Scouts.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by popisdead »

Rangers. It is access to STR 5 which we don't get much of. Plus the unit has good rules that are unique without having to just pay a pt or 2 more than other infantry.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by arolig »

joeschmidt wrote: Eternal Guard
+ Core
+ Stubborn is great
- S3/T3
- 30+ needed for strong unit


Wildwood Rangers
+ Great Weapons
+ Monster Hunters
- Special
- T3
Look at it this way:

Glade Guard:
+special arrows
+core
-rank and file
-deploys during regular deployment

Deepwood scouts:
+special arrows
+Skirmish and scout for +1 point(compared to GG), this means stubborn in forest, hard to hit and makes you finish you deployment faster
-special



If you fill core with Eternal Guard, you have lots of pointspace for the awsome scout unit.
If you fill special with rangers you can't take as many scouts, becouse you should have some bows at the start of the game(thus something else than glade riders)

You could ofcourse take eternal + scouts and then rangers!
You can have EG or WR's but you more or less must have scouts or GG's
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Keldamyr »

I haven't tried this out yet, but I'm planning on using 2-3 small units of Eternal Guard to pin down units so I can flank charge next turn. I'm thinking 10-15. Probably 15 to be more sure that they survive a charge. I'll use them as redirecters kinda like how we use eagles, take the charge, and then pass a stubborn check, meanwhile exposing the flank to a charge from Wild Riders or something similar. One concern is that the EG will get shot up but if I have a couple units of Wild Riders and Waywatchers and other high priority targets, then they'll be safe until I get them in combat. I'm testing it out tonight or tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Drstrangelove »

For me it's Eternal Guard, simply because I want to take Deepwood Scouts instead of GG, and thus I have no other way to fill Core.
Plus I do feel like getting points out of EG is MUCH harder than WWR: the combo of Stubborn and reliability of rerolls to hit in getting you some combat res (esp now that all the highest armour targets are going to get Waywatcher-ed to death before hitting our lines) makes it very hard to crack them, very easy for enemies to lose combat if they roll badly and allows plenty of time for wild riders to turn up and bring the pain.
My concern with WWR is that they are going to be best run 7 wide for max damage, so won't be steadfast too often and are at risk of breaking if their dice screw them around (which happens often enough when you don't have rerolls. Rerolls really do make things heaps more consistent).

With a branchwraith for some earthblood regen saves, I think it's going to be a rare opponent that manages to turf my 30 EG from their venom thicket castle.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Renufus »

Tethlis wrote:Good questions. This is one I've been giving a lot of thought to. I've tried WWR, and have been fairly pleased, but they aren't in the same class as the elite infantry from the other Elven armies. You have to manage your expectations to a degree.

I am wrestling with the idea of Eternal Guard Core, with Special invested in Hagbane Scouts.

Or Glade Guard Core, with Special invested in Wildwood Rangers.

If going with the first option, I think that the Acorn of Ages with Venom Thickets is pretty much mandatory to give hitting power to the Eternal Guard.
Strength 3 is never good by itself. In fact, I hate it so much that I still distrust it on sheer principle, even though stocking up on Eternal Guard would free up points for Scouts which are a big improvement over Glade Guard.

I've been pleased with the Glade Guard + WWR so far, so next up I'll try the Eternal Guard + Scouts.
Going to have to disagree with you on the bolded. I think if you're running Rangers, you do it with the intention of using them as a late-game sweeper and a 'threat radius' to keep overly aggressive units in check early. For that purpose they do very well. The purpose EG serve is much different. By placing your free venom thicket about a third of the way up the table and camping a unit of 30 EG in it you're saying 'here is a big block of points, now come and get it.' But that unit is now stubborn, pumps out a boatload of poisoned attacks with rerolls to hit and wound, and becomes exponentially more dangerous if you can threaten even a minor shadow debuff. Plus anything they do beat in combat isn't going to be steadfast due to the forest, so your opponent has to either be darn sure any unit he commits there can get rid of them quickly, or has some kind of rule that will allow him to grind it out such as stubborn or unbreakable. Essentially, it's a unit that will either draw a significant amount of attention away from the rest of your army, or will deny a large chunk of points to your opponent if he chooses to ignore it.

I'm not entirely sold on the Acorn after reading the book and learning that those woods have to go down before table sides are picked. I feel this kind of undermines the role of the EG, as if you get the 'wrong' side of the table you've spent 100 points that really hasn't supported the unit any more than your free wood already does.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. Take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Blackcat »

To be honest I am going to run them both. I have 30 eternal guard already which I intend to keep using as an anvil and simply have unit of 15-20 rangers to be a hammer. The rest of my points will be waywatchers, glade guard and a spellweaver.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Yuri »

I'd say take old metal eternal guard because they look awesome, and take wildwood rangers for the same reason. Then, paint them as best as you can. Are you playing this to win or to have fun, and what is more fun than to see two good looking armies clash against each other? :sexy:
I'm kind of joking. Ofcourse we are all bloodthirsty after all these years of waiting. :paranoid:

This topic might be good summary of an upcoming LEAF article.

If we are talking in non-comped environment, I agree with you mr. Arolig, but I'd like to point out yet another useful thing about Scouts. You can deploy them only 5 man strong which is option I've been waiting for our archers since 6th ed. (or it was in 5th edition?) . MSU all the way!
But, most people are playing in AC environments and deploying that many scouts (plus waywatchers) might be a problem. In those environments you'll need glade guard.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Beithir Seun »

I think they both have a place. As someone who made regular use of Eternal Guard with the old book, the value of Stubborn anvils cannot be underestimated. Sure, they're only S3 but they now have AP as standard (rather than having to take the Razor Banner), which makes them that little bit more effective. The loss of the extra attack from the front rank can be mitigated by getting them into woods (of which, with the Acorn, we can potentially have four "free").

Rangers I plan, initially at least, as using as a replacement for Treekin - the hammer to support the EG anvil. They'll give the S5 attacks that we need (and previously used Treekin for) and although they're nowhere near as tough as Treekin, they can take numbers to mitigate that and they'll be striking before most things thanks to I5, which should hopefully reduce the number of attacks they receive in return.

As others have noted, taking EG as Core means you can fill your Special up with Scouts over Glade Guard. I never thought I'd see the day where people were choosing Scouts over Glade Guard though :smirk:
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Drstrangelove »

Beithir Seun wrote: I never thought I'd see the day where people were choosing Scouts over Glade Guard though :smirk:
And what a happy day it is :D
although I expect it will get comped to blazes, alongside Waystalkers and Waywatchers, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Beithir Seun »

Drstrangelove wrote:
Beithir Seun wrote: I never thought I'd see the day where people were choosing Scouts over Glade Guard though :smirk:
And what a happy day it is :D
although I expect it will get comped to blazes, alongside Waystalkers and Waywatchers, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.

I'm glad I don't play in a comped environment then - time to finally get some use out of those Waywatcher and Scout models :D
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Drstrangelove »

Lucky! Maybe I'll move to the UK.
What are you using for Scouts? Trying to locate some special models.

on topic: what unit size for EG now? Always used to be 30+ or go home, has it changed?
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by overtninja »

Drstrangelove wrote:
Beithir Seun wrote: I never thought I'd see the day where people were choosing Scouts over Glade Guard though :smirk:
And what a happy day it is :D
although I expect it will get comped to blazes, alongside Waystalkers and Waywatchers, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.
We'll have to hope they don't comp it too hard, because if they do WE will be right back to having no good answer to 1+/t4-5 models any more. :\

It'd be better if other people were forced to actually field bodies on the field instead of making an entire army out of invincible superhero units. Also, if people are afraid of big, mean ol' Waystalkers shooting single sniper shots a round into things, I think they should be laughed at.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Drstrangelove »

Already I've seen comp systems with Waystalkers being a 0-2 choice.
I don't think it will take long for the world to catch on.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Beithir Seun »

With Eternal Guard now being Stubborn in their own right (and thus, not needing characters to babysit them), I think the potential for a variety of unit sizes has increased. Sure, if you want a solid anvil unit you're going to have to invest in 25+ models, but there might be some value now in running small units of 10-15 as roadblocks and flankers. I definitely think they've become more viable with the new book, but people may be put off from running big units like they used to simply because of the loss of the Rhymer's Harp - not having a unit-wide Ward Save available is a massive loss. With that in mind, I think people will be reluctant to put big points into a single unit, and would instead consider running multiple smaller units, if anything.


As for models - I have several of the plastic Glade Guard models made up as Scouts, but also the metal 5th Ed Scouts as well. I love the 5th Ed metals, they've very characterful models.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by overtninja »

Drstrangelove wrote:Already I've seen comp systems with Waystalkers being a 0-2 choice.
I don't think it will take long for the world to catch on.
Eh, that's not too bad - still an unprotected wizard dead in a turn or two. I can't see any reasonable human going for 5 Waystalkers in a list anyway, as that is a huge sink in points and honestly rather daft to do. I mean, it'll probably kill things and be trollgnificent, but mostly just very annoying. ;p
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Luminith »

Drstrangelove wrote:Already I've seen comp systems with Waystalkers being a 0-2 choice.
I don't think it will take long for the world to catch on.
That's pretty damn arbitrary. I hate when they make comp for armies when they're so new that no one knows what's op and what's not
Do I like Warhammer? Are you kidding, I've got wood!....elves...
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by overtninja »

Luminith wrote:
Drstrangelove wrote:Already I've seen comp systems with Waystalkers being a 0-2 choice.
I don't think it will take long for the world to catch on.
That's pretty damn arbitrary. I hate when they make comp for armies when they're so new that no one knows what's op and what's not
The trouble with Waystalkers is that they are perhaps the only model in the game that can actually make good use of the Sniper rule, and are therefor terrifying. :p
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by NonnoSte »

overtninja wrote: The trouble with Waystalkers is that they are perhaps the only model in the game that can actually make good use of the Sniper rule, and are therefor terrifying. :p
Well, meneaters are quite effective when given sniper + poison/vanguard
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Drstrangelove »

I'd be scared if I ever got a mirror match........even if I gave my Weaver a 4++ (which I don't) it only takes 2 Waystalkers to kill her with average rolls over the course of a game.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Yuri »

I run 21 fcg today. Well I've lost so hard that I still feel ashamed, but thats not the point. These guys held unit of ~20 nurgle warriors with halberds and some tough BSB (with some spell that lowered my S and T by 1). They were holding for full two rounds. I think thats pretty enough if you ask me.
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Re: Eternal Guard or Wildwood Rangers?

Post by Kaintxu »

21 EG or WWR
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