Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Share your tactical prowess and learn new ways of beating your foes with all the might of the Asrai.

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kakwah
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by kakwah »

Have you had much luck with this new set up?
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Woollymammoth
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Woollymammoth »

I like to get in close and then flee if charged, so I need to have the musician for the +1 Ld on the rally.
I i think this was also mentioned this in DC Podcast Episode 3 and it confused me. Due to Feigned Flight FC rule, our FC automatically rallies and can act as normal after fleeing from a charge. You only need the +1 Ld when you are fleeing from panic or a break. Given that your FC are often riding around away from other units you're unlikely to panic from others though a magic missile may freak them out. The 10pts for a musician is hard to fully justify on FC, at least one you don't want in combat.

On SotT its especially unnecessary as their ward will likely prevent you losing 25% in one turn, and you have 9Ld with the Weaver. That being said, hiding the weaver behind command can be a safe way to hide. I have been running 9 with a Shadoweaver 5x2. Anraheir can be huge in preventing mobility and in a forest you can cast it like a lvl4. I might give up the musician and the champion in this case in order to save 20 pts.

My frequent opponent is a WoC player tailored to my utter destruction so I'm hoping what doesn't kill me (or what kills me) will make me stronger. My games have not been going well except for one where my shadow magic got really lucky and I nearly tabled him by the end of turn 3.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Woollymammoth wrote:
I like to get in close and then flee if charged, so I need to have the musician for the +1 Ld on the rally.
I i think this was also mentioned this in DC Podcast Episode 3 and it confused me. Due to Feigned Flight FC rule, our FC automatically rallies and can act as normal after fleeing from a charge. You only need the +1 Ld when you are fleeing from panic or a break. Given that your FC are often riding around away from other units you're unlikely to panic from others though a magic missile may freak them out. The 10pts for a musician is hard to fully justify on FC, at least one you don't want in combat.
I think you are misreading the rule for Feigned Flight. It does not state anywhere that the rally test is passed automatically. You still have to pass the test, but if you do, you're able to reform and move as normal. If you don't, you're still fleeing, and then when you eventually pass, you don't get that ability to move as normal on the same turn - which is why I like the +1 from the musician.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Woollymammoth »

That sucks. I read it too fast. Doing so is very dangerous then. I guess with the weaver you have to go over 10 which is the best chance you can have.

My first wood elf game i was mutilated by 40 bow goblins with the poison BSB. After that I started making very hagbane-heavy armies. If you hit on 6s your wounding on 6s which can be really potent, especially vs higher T armies like WoC and Ogres. Are you taking a lot of hagbane or sticking with mostly trueflight?
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

I think a mix is the correct approach for all-comers lists. They do two very different things. If you have other tools for dealing with high toughness, then you can focus on Trueflight. Conversely, if you have other ways for dealing with chaff, you can concentrate on Hagbane.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Q10fanatic »

The biggest issue with Hagbane is that those negative To Hit modifiers can stack up really quickly. Moved, long range, over another unit? GG are all of a sudden hitting on 7s, no poison.

Mostly that just means you have to careful where you deploy them. Try to minimize cover between them and high T targets, etc.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Skinks do ok with worse range and BS. Poison just takes practice.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Q10fanatic »

Skinks have two very important differences though. They only have 12 inch range so you would never be able to use skinks to take a monster or cannon out first turn. And they're Skirmishers, so they can move and reform much more easily than GG.

Now, Deepwood scouts have none of the issues that GG Hagbane have.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by UKlvrBM »

Q10fanatic wrote:Skinks have two very important differences though. They only have 12 inch range so you would never be able to use skinks to take a monster or cannon out first turn. And they're Skirmishers, so they can move and reform much more easily than GG.

Now, Deepwood scouts have none of the issues that GG Hagbane have.
I think you forget they cost half as much and can shoot twice. Skinks are great for their points.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Very interesting GWH. Bad luck at the GT, was it comped? Quick point that's come up a couple of times, Sisters don't get the Blessing.

Your bunker is interesting but wouldn't a failed Ld9 Panic test be very bad news? Also, while you get decent protection, isn't a miscast likely to blow up the unit?

Magic arrows are very situational. I've gone with Hagbane and it's worked very well against the high toughness running around my meta but vs elves it could be suspect I think. Probably a mix is the way to go.

Agree on Treemen, less killy but still solid, I'm keeping mine. Treekin as before fine vs slow armies but don't rate them vs speed. Dryads dodgy but perhaps not useless. EG are OK, WWR might have some legs I think.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

I've been using Skaven rather than Wood Elves for last three to four months, and had a lot of good success with them (my friend's army). Partially this is because I've felt no real excitement at the lists I've been able to build with the new book - everything felt quite bland to me.

In order to try and rekindle things with the army, I'm looking at putting together the following list:

Durthu
TMA L4
Drycha
30 Dryads w/champ
25 Dryads w/champ
9 Treekin w/champ
Treeman
Treeman

Comes in at exactly 2500 points.

I'm also intending to try a variant without Durthu and one Treeman, but with Orion. Will let you all know how each list goes.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by hutobega »

TREE's HAVE FUN! lol I think it could work just fine especially with the two lords hmmmm so much leadership so much stubborn.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Tried this list last night against a Legion of Chaos - Beastmen with some Nurgle stuff and Glottkin. I lost by 400 points when my TMA took a wound after 4 rounds of combat with a chariot and fled after failing LD 10 stubborn check. Still, fun game.

Some notes: dryads and treekin are very unmaneuverable. 9 treekin are hard to fit in a forest for Drycha's ambush.

Dryads do nothing in combat without magic support. However, with decent ranks they will hold on for a long time.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by NonnoSte »

Hi,
Just out of curiosity, how badly do you miss a BSB?

As you pointed out yourself, Dryads (or Treekin, as far as I know from experience) don't win many combats.
Rerolls could be crucial IMO.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

I missed it quite badly. My general ran away by rolling an 11 after taking a single wound in a pillow fight combat. I have been thinking about taking a BSB on a Great Stag, and maybe just modelling it up as a dryad riding a four-legged treekin or something.

I played a game last night with quite a different list that won't work for most people. Our local meta often allows monsters from Storm of Magic and Monstrous Arcanum.

Characters:
Spellweaver: Dispel Scroll; Talisman of Preservation; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Metal; Asrai Longbow
Glade Captain: Hail of Doom Arrow; Trueflight arrows; Battle Standard; Great weapon
Glade Captain: Armour of Fortune; Dragonbane Gem; Potion of Foolhardiness; Trueflight arrows; Shield; Asrai spear; Great Eagle

Core:
12 Glade Guard: Standard of Discipline; Trueflight arrows; Lord's Bowman; Musician; Standard Bearer
12 Glade Guard: Trueflight arrows; Lord's Bowman; Musician; Standard Bearer
12 Glade Guard: Trueflight arrows; Musician

Special:
3 Warhawk Riders
7 Tree Kin: Tree Kin Elder
9 Deepwood Scouts: Starfire shafts

Rare:
1 Great Eagle
1 Great Eagle

Bound:
Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
Incarnate Elemental of Beasts

2,497 points

The Incarnate Elementals play the role our Treemen *used* to play. They are S7/T6, 6 attacks, 5+ Ward, D3 Impact Hits, and with a 12" 'scream' shooting attack that causes panic tests. They are Unbreakable and Unstable, but taking a pair and charging them at the same targets virtually guarantees that you'll win combat. They are only I4, which means that Elves with Great Weapons are a threat (so go for flanks), but overall they dominated in the game last night, taking out a Daemon Prince and then a big block of ~30 Warriors with Halberds (they got a flank attack). S7 is huge.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by hutobega »

Strength 7 is huge which I'm still salty about treemen dropping one strength =P but anyways list looks interesting! My friends and I have the storm of magic book and just say no thanks ! haha
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by The_Wendol »

Great thread btw!
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by NonnoSte »

Nice list, with almost everything at support of the two beasts.

Did he played the Cannon?
Probably it wouldn't be a great issue anyway with flying Eagles and WHR.
Scouts help too, but if I were to write a list like this for all comers, I'd swap all those TFA for HBT to answer the threat of war machines.

Couldn't a similar list be done without those monsters, but with a couple of Dragons?
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Dragons are significantly greater points investments. In fact, one dragon with a lord on the back will run you almost as much as the two beasts!

I ran the following list against a DoC player:

Spellweaver: Dispel Scroll; Talisman of Preservation; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Metal; Asrai Longbow

Glade Captain: Hail of Doom Arrow; Opal Amulet; Charmed Shield; Trueflight arrows; Battle Standard; Great weapon
Naestra & Arahan

12 Glade Guard: Standard of Discipline; Trueflight arrows; Lord's Bowman; Musician; Standard Bearer
12 Glade Guard: Trueflight arrows; Lord's Bowman; Musician; Standard Bearer
12 Glade Guard: Trueflight arrows; Musician

6 Warhawk Riders
9 Deepwood Scouts: Starfire shafts
5 Wardancers

1 Great Eagle
1 Great Eagle

Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
Incarnate Elemental of Beasts

In our local meta, the Sisters of Twilight on an Eagle have 3 wounds each, and can take a Look Out Sir (4+) from a unit of 5+ Warhawks. His list was:

Keeper of Secrets, L4, Slaanesh (2+ Armor Save, Whip)
Slaanesh Herald L1, Shadow, Locus of auto-pass characteristic tests (Rolled Mindrazor)
40 Daemonette Horde
10 Bloodletters
6 Bloodcrushers
3 units of 5 Fleshhounds, 1 ambushing
2 Skullcannon

I won this game by 400 VPs, but it was a very close thing. The Sisters are very hard to kill, but they don't hit very hard so they make a great supporting attack. 6 Warhawk Riders is a big footprint, making them more vulnerable to charges because they are harder to maneuver out of the way. The Beasts got kind of screwed by Cacophonic Choir, so didn't do a whole lot. I misused the Wardancers, but almost took out a unit of Fleshhounds with them - until he rolled a double-1 and they all popped back to full health.

Overall, I liked this list less. The Sisters are pretty good, and fill the role of the Stone of Rebirth Noble really well (better in fact, because they are harder to kill, more killy in combat and better in the shooting phase), but I don't think I'll run 6 Warkhawks again - fleeing from a charge is a lot worse with 6 models because you can easily be overrun into.
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by astorre »

How did you find Metal as your only lore against an army with no armor? What spells did you cast?
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Well, his greater daemon rolled the 2+ armor save, so that was by far my best target. I threw dice at that every turn, and at Final trans on his daemonette horde. I think I got one spell through the whole game though - I kept rolling 6+1 or 6+2 for winds which is not great.

Also, his Chariots all have a 3+ save, but they are more easily dealt with in combat. Sisters of Twilight charging a Skullcannon will likely take it off in one turn (I think the math shows winning by 2). You'll win combat and he's on Ld 6 with Daemonic Instability, so a pretty good chance you'll knock off the final wound or two with that.

With the End Times upon us, and my next GT being End Times rules, I'm still not sure what I'll be doing. The 2+ Ward Save spell on Lore of Metal looks very promising, but then a healing vortex on Lore of Life may mean double L3 Treeman Ancient ...
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by astorre »

Where are you findin these spells?
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by Ricky Fox »

Yeah nice one dude! :)
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Re: Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by NonnoSte »

A Heavensweaver also becomes appealing.
That boosted windblast, paired with comet, allows a great board control. I think WE really can take the most from Heavens.
Then again, with no WW, Metal is great to fill some gaps
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Kinband of Ioreth's Hollow - an army blog

Post by godswearhats »

Long time no update.

After finishing last year's GT season with Skaven, I had to miss out on US Masters due to a family emergency.

This year, I'll be playing the whole season with my Wood Elves in various forms.

First up, I'm going to a 2400 point tournament in Salem OR - the Black Sheep Brawl. It is uncomped, but uses Swedish to determine first round matchups and any list under Swedish 5.0 will be examined closely for abuse. They also allow end times stuff, and produced some extra Swedish modifiers for it all. I decided to take Host of the Phoenix King, add in a couple of Frosthearts and spruce up my minis with a bit of a new theme.

That being said, here's the list:

Treeman Ancient: Level 4 Wizard
Spellweaver: Talisman of Preservation; Dispel Scroll; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of Shadow

Glade Captain: Hail of Doom Arrow; Charmed Shield; great weapon; starfire shafts; Battle Standard Bearer

18 Glade Guard: hagbane tips; Lord's Bowman; musician; standard bearer
18 Glade Guard: hagbane tips; Lord's Bowman; musician; standard bearer

6 Tree Kin
6 Wild Riders: shields; standard bearer
5 Wardancers

Frostheart Phoenix
Frostheart Phoenix

It comps at a 5.1. I would rather have MSU glade guard but I didn't want to be over 600 points or under 5 comp and the math on 18 hagbane is one war machine per turn.

Some photos once I've painted the frosties.
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