Magic Items breakdown
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- Tethlis
- Shadow Sentinel
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- Armies I play: Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Ogres.
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
-Daith's Reaper: Great for adding reliability, but obviously as Elves we dont really need reliability compared to other armies because we already re-roll To Hit against pretty much everyone. What we really is need is Strength. However, since Wild Riders are already a great unit for hitting things and exploding them on the charge, I can see Daith's Reaper, Helm of the Hunt and Potion of Strength making for a great one-hit Wonder character who can help the Wild Riders plow through tough single targets who would normally hang them up. That guy even has a decent chance of threatening Nurgle Daemon Princes in combat. Throw in a secondary supporting character with Other Trickster's Shard, and then nothing is safe. There's even a possibility of bagging Disc riders.
The downside, of course, is that he's made of wet tissue paper and will explode on contact with enemy attacks
-Bow of Loren: I like how cheap this is. I plan to include it on a BSB whose primary function is to stay out of combat. He can run around and contribute some Armor Piercing arrow fire (the BoL is an Asrai Longbow) and still feel useful. Since our steeds are Fast Cavalry too, he can fire on the move with some Sisters of the Thorn. Not the armor-stripping ass kicker it used to be, but the cheap point cost makes it easy to fit in a supporting role.
-Helm of the Hunt: Similar to the Daith's Reaper, I can see this being a good item for players who want to build a shock-and-awe combat character. Its cheap cost means it fits easily into a lot of wargear setups, and is also good for fluffy players who like their Wild Hunt theme. It's the closest you can get to making a character part of the Wild Rider "kindred" and its rules remain solid, though I personally have doubts about spending a lot of points on fragile Wood Elf combat characters.
-Acorn of the Ages: A game changer. This will be a must for Wood Elf armies that really want to maximize combat potential. Having 4 Poison forests on the table, which not only grants us our army attribute but also gives basically all our units Poison Attacks, is fantastic. Very good for setting ambushes, with Eternal Guard or WildWood Rangers camping out in them waiting for opponents to get close (great suggestion by EtherDude on that one.)
-Moonstone of the Hidden Ways. Combine with Acorn of the Ages for endless trolling. For players who don't want to cavbunker their casters, this is an ideal way to protect them and keep them out of trouble.
-Hail of Doom Arrow: I love this thing. I've loved it since 6th edition. I also love that it fits nicely with the Bow of Loren on a Glade Captain. Wait for a critical Withering on your opponent, use it to shred a caster bunker to single out the character inside, use it as a stand-and-shoot to keep your own bunker safe, use it to finish off warmachines or monsters... So many uses.
-Calaingor's Staff: I like that it's cheap. Could combine well with Acorn of the Ages, though I suspect players will prefer taking a Dispel Scroll on their second caster rather than this item. Still, good for correcting bad scatters with the Acorn. Also good for trolling shooting-heavy armies by moving forests into their firing arcs and imposing Soft Cover. Additionally nice for forcing Dangerous Terrain tests, The direct damage component is also very nice for keeping opponents wary of the forest... A little item, but limited in the sense that you need the Acorn of the Ages for maximum effect, and then probably need a third character to also haul around a Dispel Scroll for players who want that too.
-Banner of the Eternal Queen: Did this thing really have to be 100 points? I would have loved it at 50 points, and found good use for it in a unit of Sisters, but 100? I do think its best place is in a unit housing a lot of characters, such as a Sisters of the Thorn bunker or a Wild Rider bus for players who want to try it. This lets the fragile, unprotected BSB sit in the back rank displaced by command models, and give both those cav units fantastic protection versus magic missiles (quite a big threat to both of them, especially Wild Riders.) If they get caught in a bad round of combat too, you get a turn to get them some help without losing your entire character allowance. Crown of Command is still better in that regard, but having Magic Resistance does help.
-The Banner of the Hunter King: Hmmm. This is great for a combat unit, especially an infantry-oriented combat unit, but unfortunately that's the last place you want an unprotected BSB. I could see the appeal for using it to shove a big Eternal Guard or WWR unit up the table and into a Poison Forest before the game starts, and then sprinting the BSB into the safety of another unit on Turn 1 to keep him from harm's way (perhaps a Wild Rider or Sister unit, where they can use re-roll Charges component to help hit flanks, warmachines, chaff, and other light targets where the BSB won't be in danger.) I definitely see the usefulness of this one in a meta that's full of other opponents who sit back and shoot, like Dwarves.
Honestly though, both of these banners could have been 50 points and I don't think anyone would have screamed about it.
The downside, of course, is that he's made of wet tissue paper and will explode on contact with enemy attacks
-Bow of Loren: I like how cheap this is. I plan to include it on a BSB whose primary function is to stay out of combat. He can run around and contribute some Armor Piercing arrow fire (the BoL is an Asrai Longbow) and still feel useful. Since our steeds are Fast Cavalry too, he can fire on the move with some Sisters of the Thorn. Not the armor-stripping ass kicker it used to be, but the cheap point cost makes it easy to fit in a supporting role.
-Helm of the Hunt: Similar to the Daith's Reaper, I can see this being a good item for players who want to build a shock-and-awe combat character. Its cheap cost means it fits easily into a lot of wargear setups, and is also good for fluffy players who like their Wild Hunt theme. It's the closest you can get to making a character part of the Wild Rider "kindred" and its rules remain solid, though I personally have doubts about spending a lot of points on fragile Wood Elf combat characters.
-Acorn of the Ages: A game changer. This will be a must for Wood Elf armies that really want to maximize combat potential. Having 4 Poison forests on the table, which not only grants us our army attribute but also gives basically all our units Poison Attacks, is fantastic. Very good for setting ambushes, with Eternal Guard or WildWood Rangers camping out in them waiting for opponents to get close (great suggestion by EtherDude on that one.)
-Moonstone of the Hidden Ways. Combine with Acorn of the Ages for endless trolling. For players who don't want to cavbunker their casters, this is an ideal way to protect them and keep them out of trouble.
-Hail of Doom Arrow: I love this thing. I've loved it since 6th edition. I also love that it fits nicely with the Bow of Loren on a Glade Captain. Wait for a critical Withering on your opponent, use it to shred a caster bunker to single out the character inside, use it as a stand-and-shoot to keep your own bunker safe, use it to finish off warmachines or monsters... So many uses.
-Calaingor's Staff: I like that it's cheap. Could combine well with Acorn of the Ages, though I suspect players will prefer taking a Dispel Scroll on their second caster rather than this item. Still, good for correcting bad scatters with the Acorn. Also good for trolling shooting-heavy armies by moving forests into their firing arcs and imposing Soft Cover. Additionally nice for forcing Dangerous Terrain tests, The direct damage component is also very nice for keeping opponents wary of the forest... A little item, but limited in the sense that you need the Acorn of the Ages for maximum effect, and then probably need a third character to also haul around a Dispel Scroll for players who want that too.
-Banner of the Eternal Queen: Did this thing really have to be 100 points? I would have loved it at 50 points, and found good use for it in a unit of Sisters, but 100? I do think its best place is in a unit housing a lot of characters, such as a Sisters of the Thorn bunker or a Wild Rider bus for players who want to try it. This lets the fragile, unprotected BSB sit in the back rank displaced by command models, and give both those cav units fantastic protection versus magic missiles (quite a big threat to both of them, especially Wild Riders.) If they get caught in a bad round of combat too, you get a turn to get them some help without losing your entire character allowance. Crown of Command is still better in that regard, but having Magic Resistance does help.
-The Banner of the Hunter King: Hmmm. This is great for a combat unit, especially an infantry-oriented combat unit, but unfortunately that's the last place you want an unprotected BSB. I could see the appeal for using it to shove a big Eternal Guard or WWR unit up the table and into a Poison Forest before the game starts, and then sprinting the BSB into the safety of another unit on Turn 1 to keep him from harm's way (perhaps a Wild Rider or Sister unit, where they can use re-roll Charges component to help hit flanks, warmachines, chaff, and other light targets where the BSB won't be in danger.) I definitely see the usefulness of this one in a meta that's full of other opponents who sit back and shoot, like Dwarves.
Honestly though, both of these banners could have been 50 points and I don't think anyone would have screamed about it.
- The Wood Whisperer
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
Better use it on a unit of scouts then, so they can still shootMarkM wrote:Moonstone is not the same as before. It's NOT one use only but cannot be used if in CC and unit counts as having marched.
By the way, I'll miss the standard Eagle Noble. RIP Amaranthine Brooch...
Re: Magic Items breakdown
I'd rather take a MR 3 item than that banner.
I just realised something about the venom forests. They give poison only in close combat, right? But then your opponent will also have poison! Sure, with T3 that might not mean as much, but still.
I just realised something about the venom forests. They give poison only in close combat, right? But then your opponent will also have poison! Sure, with T3 that might not mean as much, but still.
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- Wild Hunter
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
CauCaSus wrote:I'd rather take a MR 3 item than that banner.
I just realised something about the venom forests. They give poison only in close combat, right? But then your opponent will also have poison! Sure, with T3 that might not mean as much, but still.
Not if the front of your unit ends outside the forest, but if you use the acorn to scatter them around the middle of the board, yes.
On the bright side, you don't have to take the difficult terrain tests.
A tactic I have seen suggested was useing the fear causing forests to make your opponent cause fear, giving your wildwood rangers their extra attack, along with the prowess if you are both part in the forest.
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- Trusted Bowman
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
great write up, though do you not like spirit sword?
I don't know making a lord choice a glass cannon will be worth it, we seem to have plenty already and hes a lot of point. But i guess with play testing will see.
I don't know making a lord choice a glass cannon will be worth it, we seem to have plenty already and hes a lot of point. But i guess with play testing will see.
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- Wild Hunter
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
While Daiths reaper sounds great for a shock & awe character, it will rely on the potion of strength.
I think that a plain asrai spear is better for this type of character if you don't have the potion, as s5, total -3 save looks better than s4 -1 savereroll to wound and successful saves.
I think that a plain asrai spear is better for this type of character if you don't have the potion, as s5, total -3 save looks better than s4 -1 savereroll to wound and successful saves.
Re: Magic Items breakdown
Spirit sword is a must in my lists. If they were clearer about its rules in the previous book, It would have been then, as well. I'm a bit of a risk taker (it makes for great stories ). The new one is just so badass! General is going in a wild rider unit, spirit sword in hand, with charmed shield, dragonbane gem and potion of fool hardiness
Do I like Warhammer? Are you kidding, I've got wood!....elves...
- Tethlis
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
Cool setup. Happy hunting! I hope you'll share your experiences on how he does.Luminith wrote:Spirit sword is a must in my lists. If they were clearer about its rules in the previous book, It would have been then, as well. I'm a bit of a risk taker (it makes for great stories ). The new one is just so badass! General is going in a wild rider unit, spirit sword in hand, with charmed shield, dragonbane gem and potion of fool hardiness
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
WHAT?? Not a single defensive magic item? Not "doom and glooming" here, but how the heck are we suppose to keep our characters alive? Even a fighty Lord will be hard pressed in a challenge now. Not to mention trying to cover a BSB defensively somehow, and a mage. Guess we may have to play "keep away" with these dudes...
-Dave-
-Dave-
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- Bladesinger
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
The two weapon are quite awkward in my opinion: the thing elves lack (other than durability, but we can't do anything about it) is strength, hence the problems with to-wound and opposing armour saves.
Both swords partially solve this issue, but in strange ways: the things you want to assassinate with the spirit sword are likely big monster with low Ld and high toughness, usually with a 4+, 5+ or even no armour save. So the old one, even with its risks, seemed better suited.
The Daith Reaper is a lot of points for what it offers, since you already re-roll to hit and you're wounding on 5 and facing good armour saves (you don't want your fighting character to deal with standard infantry, do you?)
Both swords partially solve this issue, but in strange ways: the things you want to assassinate with the spirit sword are likely big monster with low Ld and high toughness, usually with a 4+, 5+ or even no armour save. So the old one, even with its risks, seemed better suited.
The Daith Reaper is a lot of points for what it offers, since you already re-roll to hit and you're wounding on 5 and facing good armour saves (you don't want your fighting character to deal with standard infantry, do you?)
- Tethlis
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I sort of hoped, after three books, that GW would figure out that Elves need strength-based magic weapons. After the Blade of Leaping Gold, the Hydra Blade and now these two, I'm pretty convinced they've totally missed that notion :P
Re: Magic Items breakdown
GW: "Nah man, 6 S4 ASF attacks will totally take down that Vampire Lord. You ignore armor saves on 6's to wound, you're good bro."Tethlis wrote:I sort of hoped, after three books, that GW would figure out that Elves need strength-based magic weapons. After the Blade of Leaping Gold, the Hydra Blade and now these two, I'm pretty convinced they've totally missed that notion :P
Re: Magic Items breakdown
Really?? No more KB shooting??? How depressing...TheKingInYellow wrote:There are no more kindreds, and no more KB shooting in the book.bandit213 wrote:Give it to a waywatcher noble or lord and watch as 4 or 5 shots at BS6 or 7 rake in the KB's.
Re: Magic Items breakdown
They ignore Armour saves now! Meaning the rest of the shots that aren't 6s do something now.Saniles wrote:Really?? No more KB shooting??? How depressing...TheKingInYellow wrote:There are no more kindreds, and no more KB shooting in the book.bandit213 wrote:Give it to a waywatcher noble or lord and watch as 4 or 5 shots at BS6 or 7 rake in the KB's.
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I think bsb bunkering with units like sisters with BoCA and/or BoL is going to become pretty standard.
One handy side effect is that with, say, a mage and bsb, in a unit, you only need 8 to have 2 full ranks for the +1 to cast for the sisters, and they make a good bunker with their high speed, support role and 4+ ward (adding obsidian amulet or trinket for magic resistance is handy here).
One handy side effect is that with, say, a mage and bsb, in a unit, you only need 8 to have 2 full ranks for the +1 to cast for the sisters, and they make a good bunker with their high speed, support role and 4+ ward (adding obsidian amulet or trinket for magic resistance is handy here).
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- Bladesinger
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
"Not to mention that poor Steam Tank! If you get to re-roll to hit and to wound, be sure he eventually will fail his 2+ AS the second time!"Rogue Sun wrote: GW: "Nah man, 6 S4 ASF attacks will totally take down that Vampire Lord. You ignore armor saves on 6's to wound, you're good bro."
Re: Magic Items breakdown
That's good, I like it.Coyle_Ravane wrote:CauCaSus wrote:I'd rather take a MR 3 item than that banner.
I just realised something about the venom forests. They give poison only in close combat, right? But then your opponent will also have poison! Sure, with T3 that might not mean as much, but still.
Not if the front of your unit ends outside the forest, but if you use the acorn to scatter them around the middle of the board, yes.
On the bright side, you don't have to take the difficult terrain tests.
A tactic I have seen suggested was useing the fear causing forests to make your opponent cause fear, giving your wildwood rangers their extra attack, along with the prowess if you are both part in the forest.
This is a cheeky and sneaky way to maximize your effectiveness on the battlefield.
- SpanielBear
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
Especially as most of our combat units either cause fear, are frenzied, or are immune to psychology. Or a combo of the above. It's weird, we have an army where facing a fear-causing enemy is almost a bonus!
Have Fun, Stay Sane, Enjoy the Madness.
Re: Magic Items breakdown
Spirit Sword and OTS. With ASF this is death to almost anything. Only question is what unit to put him in..... Great Stag with available armour seems to give him best chance.
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I could me wrong but i think the spirit swords affect only works once per model so not as good as you may think. I think it would be a mistake to go for a stag as you loose fast cav. I think a stead would be best, probs in with some sisters.Ishamael wrote:Spirit Sword and OTS. With ASF this is death to almost anything. Only question is what unit to put him in..... Great Stag with available armour seems to give him best chance.
OTS im also not sure about, enchanted shield, luck stone, PoF would also be good. I think you would have to test these.
Also i think you would have to accept a lot of game you paid a lot of point for something you won't use much. Against army with out things like steam tanks, DP, greater deamons dragons, his targets are limited but im sure he can pic off chariots and stuff. Against army with mainly just hoards, OnG, beastmen i think he would have to sit most of the game out, unless you aim is just to trade characters, which could still be worth it, if you can get their lvl 4 turn 2 say. Also he still provides LD10 so its not all bad.
Re: Magic Items breakdown
The spirit sword needs to wound now doesn't it? It doesn't automatically wound anymore right?
So you are S4 and ignore armor, which isn't that great to be honest. I like the sword, but I'm hesitant to pit him against like a DP or anything T5 or greater.
So you are S4 and ignore armor, which isn't that great to be honest. I like the sword, but I'm hesitant to pit him against like a DP or anything T5 or greater.
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I think this is why it will been seen a lot with death magic to support, soul blight and Doom and darkness really help it out. It most likely won't straight up kill a DP but the threat should really help. If you have nothing to scary a DP it will just kill you, units by unit.
- Shandrakor
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I'm thinking the same thing Dave. I used to run a mostly combat Wood Elf army and by the sounds of it, that's completely a thing of the past, and not at all viable anymore. It used to be that you could get a couple decently protected combat characters, nothing like the other Elves, Dwarves, or Chaos, but still durable enough to last a couple rounds in combat. Now the Wood Elf list doesn't have a character with a decent save so all that's left is hit and run and shooty lists...Dave Bednarek wrote:WHAT?? Not a single defensive magic item? Not "doom and glooming" here, but how the heck are we suppose to keep our characters alive? Even a fighty Lord will be hard pressed in a challenge now. Not to mention trying to cover a BSB defensively somehow, and a mage. Guess we may have to play "keep away" with these dudes...
-Dave-
Oh, and a final note, RIP The Rhymer's Harp. Was really hoping, if nothing else, that that one would stick around. Ah, well, I won't be able to get the new book and try it out until next weekend anyways. So I'll see what can be done when that day rolls around.
P.S.- Sorry for ranting. Just not really impressed with what I've seen outside the shooting everyone is hyping up to no end.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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- Wild Hunter
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Re: Magic Items breakdown
I think our shooting is a lot weaker than people are thinking. In many ways it has got weaker than it was.Shandrakor wrote:I'm thinking the same thing Dave. I used to run a mostly combat Wood Elf army and by the sounds of it, that's completely a thing of the past, and not at all viable anymore. It used to be that you could get a couple decently protected combat characters, nothing like the other Elves, Dwarves, or Chaos, but still durable enough to last a couple rounds in combat. Now the Wood Elf list doesn't have a character with a decent save so all that's left is hit and run and shooty lists...Dave Bednarek wrote:WHAT?? Not a single defensive magic item? Not "doom and glooming" here, but how the heck are we suppose to keep our characters alive? Even a fighty Lord will be hard pressed in a challenge now. Not to mention trying to cover a BSB defensively somehow, and a mage. Guess we may have to play "keep away" with these dudes...
-Dave-
Oh, and a final note, RIP The Rhymer's Harp. Was really hoping, if nothing else, that that one would stick around. Ah, well, I won't be able to get the new book and try it out until next weekend anyways. So I'll see what can be done when that day rolls around.
P.S.- Sorry for ranting. Just not really impressed with what I've seen outside the shooting everyone is hyping up to no end.
Combat can still be done. WE were never any good at fighting like most armies, but used to be brutal in combat IF YOU PICKED YOUR FIGHTS. That is still key.
Wild riders got much better, wardancers are less killy, but can win a fight better. Eternal guard are key, cheap, stubborn msu who can pin down tough units so you don't have to deal with them, and pin weaker units while you bring in the wildriders and/or wardancers to break them.