Tethlis' Army Blog: 2 new Batreps, updated 5/5

[NonnoSte]

Hi Tethlis, I had a few questions about wardancers.
From your recent experience it seemed they packed quite a punch in the O&G match.
I'm running two small units in a MSU army at the moment and they aren't achieving very much. I counter/combo charged with them a couple of times, but they've never been able to generate active combat res. Usually they can't get more than one or two wounds through, when they're needed (dwarves, saurus, iron guts, chaos warriors).
They're good at clearing chaffs and great if used like your Dryads unit, since they're cheaper (although they come from special), more manouvreable and versatile (even road blockers if stubborn in a wood).
Is it possible that the whole point with them is the army in which they operate? I can see Heavens (which I'm using for now) not being very synergic with them, but I'm unwilling to assume they can be used only alongside Shadow mages.

[RevRanDoM]

@RevRanDoM
Man they'll let anybody post these days. You should need a license and a background check to register for forums

I'm sorry the movers screwed up your times. I'll see what I can do about moving our tabletop violence to Sunday, huh?

My tunnels extend everywhere.

Yeah, major bummer about the movers. I only have one post here and I already have to post a retraction. I think The Council of Thirteen is sabotaging my plans. :P

[Dogmar]

Responses in green.

@Dogmar
Cool avatar you have there, by the way!

Thank you very much, I think it's a photoshopped video game artwork, I don't remember where exactly it comes from though since I've had it lie around for some time. It's also hard to find an avatar this small, some other boards allow bigger images that are rescaled to fit the forum Glad you like it.

Regarding Wardancers: I do think Wood Elves have some comfortable points that a player can spend on anything and still keep their list effective.

This is definitely a good thing, since I'd dislike if we became a mono-build army. For friendly games (I'm not much into the tournament scene even though I like to play strategically challenging games) I think we have plenty of options. A full close combat list like some mostly tree lists we saw before the new book dropped are hard to achieve though. Since I don't get to game all that much being very busy and living relatively far from my gaming club this would be a cool thing for you to test out. By full close combat I mean combat centered, obviously there is no wood elf army without archers

That Greenskin game was my first one using Wardancers, and I did use them primarily as anti-chaff but they contributed well to a nice heavy-duty combined combat as well. They can't charge head-first into ranked up hordes, but if they're hitting someone in the flank or rear where there will be relatively few attacks coming back, they still contribute very nicely. Killing Blow and Armor Piercing will generate results en masse, and even +1 Attack means they'll go through T4 targets with poor armor (Dwarves, Ogres, even Halberd Chaos Warriors) at a fair rate while suffering minimal return attacks through smart positioning. The 3+ Ward is always there as insurance too, potentially letting them stall tough opponents with very little static combat resolution as long as you keep your general + BSB around to help them pass any modest break tests. I still need to playtest them more against a variety of opponents before I can say they're functional against all comers, but I was very happy with their role this game. They took out some Wolf Riders, pursued them into a chariot and killed it in one round, reformed to charge a Doomdiver and kill them, reformed and rear-charged Savage Orc Big Unz as part of a multiple combat to decimate the unit. My unit used the +1 Attack dance and generated about 20 Attacks. I had already killed off the Shaman, bumping their 5++ to a 6++, so they still scored 5 kills, only suffered a couple in return (choppa bonus gone) +2 for rear charge, +1 for charging.

Since they lost S4 on the charge they really hampered their killing power, with only S3 and no AP until they do the dance I think they could've given them 2 attacks base to make up for that, but anyway. The way they are now it could be beneficial to run them in a thin frontage, say 3x3 and charge them through a wood into the flank of an enemy. This minimizes incoming attacks and you get to attack with all models because of our Prowress. We'd not really get to benefit from the attack dance though, so it's most likely killing blow/AP or no-ranks there. Wider frontage maximizes attacks (put a muso in there for swift reforms), but is more risky.

So that's a net gain of +5 Combat Resolution for being patient, getting them into a good safe position, using a tough Treeman to rob the Greenskins of their Choppa bonus and single out the Great Shaman. Once the Savage Orcs were "primed" for other Elven units like that, the big combined charge worked very nicely and netted over a thousand VP.

They're clearly more of a support unit than a main combat blog, we have our improved EG for that - or the rangers, although I'm a bit on the fence about them since they're basically sword masters, but not quite as good.

As far as using them against specific armies, I can see using them as an Anvil to hold up certain opponents, a flank charge to either shred infantry or open up cavalry, or a character assassination tool if someone gets careless with positioning. They're also a very good recipient for buffs like Wildform or Mindrazor, since their stat "template" for attacks is potentially even better than Wildriders when it comes to churning out lots of attacks and reliably hitting with them.

Shadow and beast magic would work wonders on them, but then again it would on any of our units. I'm not too keen to use them as anvils. The 3++ is nice and all, but you only get it in one round of combat and when they don't do this dance they're pracitcally not protected at all. I feel this is a general problem for our combat units. Of course we are a glass cannon army, but even our hero/lord builds lack the staying power needed to fight a prolonged combat, effectively restricting us to the aforementioned build of mass shooting to whittle the enemy down and then charging multiple small support units in to mop up. I'm not whining here, it's more of an observation. Feel free to disagree, I haven't played a game with the new book yet. So what would we have to do to make a more direct combat approach work?!

In either case I'm looking forward to your future observations about or army and of course about wardancers.

[SpanielBear]

Responses in green.

@Dogmar
Cool avatar you have there, by the way!

Thank you very much, I think it's a photoshopped video game artwork, I don't remember where exactly it comes from though since I've had it lie around for some time. It's also hard to find an avatar this small, some other boards allow bigger images that are rescaled to fit the forum Glad you like it.

Regarding Wardancers: I do think Wood Elves have some comfortable points that a player can spend on anything and still keep their list effective.

This is definitely a good thing, since I'd dislike if we became a mono-build army. For friendly games (I'm not much into the tournament scene even though I like to play strategically challenging games) I think we have plenty of options. A full close combat list like some mostly tree lists we saw before the new book dropped are hard to achieve though. Since I don't get to game all that much being very busy and living relatively far from my gaming club this would be a cool thing for you to test out. By full close combat I mean combat centered, obviously there is no wood elf army without archers

That Greenskin game was my first one using Wardancers, and I did use them primarily as anti-chaff but they contributed well to a nice heavy-duty combined combat as well. They can't charge head-first into ranked up hordes, but if they're hitting someone in the flank or rear where there will be relatively few attacks coming back, they still contribute very nicely. Killing Blow and Armor Piercing will generate results en masse, and even +1 Attack means they'll go through T4 targets with poor armor (Dwarves, Ogres, even Halberd Chaos Warriors) at a fair rate while suffering minimal return attacks through smart positioning. The 3+ Ward is always there as insurance too, potentially letting them stall tough opponents with very little static combat resolution as long as you keep your general + BSB around to help them pass any modest break tests. I still need to playtest them more against a variety of opponents before I can say they're functional against all comers, but I was very happy with their role this game. They took out some Wolf Riders, pursued them into a chariot and killed it in one round, reformed to charge a Doomdiver and kill them, reformed and rear-charged Savage Orc Big Unz as part of a multiple combat to decimate the unit. My unit used the +1 Attack dance and generated about 20 Attacks. I had already killed off the Shaman, bumping their 5++ to a 6++, so they still scored 5 kills, only suffered a couple in return (choppa bonus gone) +2 for rear charge, +1 for charging.

Since they lost S4 on the charge they really hampered their killing power, with only S3 and no AP until they do the dance I think they could've given them 2 attacks base to make up for that, but anyway. The way they are now it could be beneficial to run them in a thin frontage, say 3x3 and charge them through a wood into the flank of an enemy. This minimizes incoming attacks and you get to attack with all models because of our Prowress. We'd not really get to benefit from the attack dance though, so it's most likely killing blow/AP or no-ranks there. Wider frontage maximizes attacks (put a muso in there for swift reforms), but is more risky.

So that's a net gain of +5 Combat Resolution for being patient, getting them into a good safe position, using a tough Treeman to rob the Greenskins of their Choppa bonus and single out the Great Shaman. Once the Savage Orcs were "primed" for other Elven units like that, the big combined charge worked very nicely and netted over a thousand VP.

They're clearly more of a support unit than a main combat blog, we have our improved EG for that - or the rangers, although I'm a bit on the fence about them since they're basically sword masters, but not quite as good.

As far as using them against specific armies, I can see using them as an Anvil to hold up certain opponents, a flank charge to either shred infantry or open up cavalry, or a character assassination tool if someone gets careless with positioning. They're also a very good recipient for buffs like Wildform or Mindrazor, since their stat "template" for attacks is potentially even better than Wildriders when it comes to churning out lots of attacks and reliably hitting with them.

Shadow and beast magic would work wonders on them, but then again it would on any of our units. I'm not too keen to use them as anvils. The 3++ is nice and all, but you only get it in one round of combat and when they don't do this dance they're pracitcally not protected at all. I feel this is a general problem for our combat units. Of course we are a glass cannon army, but even our hero/lord builds lack the staying power needed to fight a prolonged combat, effectively restricting us to the aforementioned build of mass shooting to whittle the enemy down and then charging multiple small support units in to mop up. I'm not whining here, it's more of an observation. Feel free to disagree, I haven't played a game with the new book yet. So what would we have to do to make a more direct combat approach work?!

In either case I'm looking forward to your future observations about or army and of course about wardancers.

In regards to Wardancers, I've found them very effective as a screening unit. Now that our Glade Guard are more expensive and less mobile, they tend to attract every enemy infantry unit within a 48" radius, who make a bee-line for the tasty tasty points. A squad of war-dancers nearby can be deployed swiftly in front of an archer unit that is about to recieve a charge, while other fast elements move into position nearby. The enemy is left in a quandary. He can attempt to charge the wardancers, who have a 3++ for that round and a small frontage for fewer return attacks (and if you are lucky, are in a wood to be stubborn). If he does, however, the next turn he gets charged from every which-way by Rangers, Wild Riders or whatever, and the wardancers just go insane with killing-blow or bonus attacks. Or he has to waste a turn re-deploying towards another threat, whereupon I can shoot him or charge him as needed.

The point is that if Wardancers move to recieve a charge rather than inflict one, the fact that their 3++ only lasts 1 turn is irrelevant- if they absorb a charge, they've done their job. Anything on top of that is gravy. And they can do this for only 25 points more than an Eagle.

Stick characters in there (branchwraiths are excellent, btw), and drop a magic buff or two and they go back to being the face-melters of the previous edition.

[Kaintxu]

To be 100% honest, I thought you were trolling me for a while.

That comment made me really, really sad as I have never been accused of such thing before and even if that was just an impression I don't deserve that.

I'm sure you're still good. I'd be willing to bet a large amount of the old timers here know you (or at least your name) from Ulthuan and that other site which must not be named .
Nothing but respect - even more so after you started the post for Justin about his win at Masters. Most of those Arrogant High Elves couldn't see the strength of his army... I DESPISE playing that damned list. He's been playing the same thing since the book came out and knows how to get EVERYTHING out of it. You at least were willing to give a real discussion of it and not take anything out of a fellow Asur. Much Respect.

Also - thanks for the reports so far Teth. I've only gotten 3 small games in with them so far. It's good to hear from larger games.

can u guys post said list or pass a link. I don't plays asurs at all but my bro is starting with them ( he is experienced as a chaos and u dead player) and would love to so it to him

[Swordmaster of Hoeth]

Hi Kaintxu,

Here is the link to Ulthuan's topic, you will find the list there as well as the lists of his opponents:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62213

Cheers!

[Boskie43]

can u guys post said list or pass a link. I don't plays asurs at all but my bro is starting with them ( he is experienced as a chaos and u dead player) and would love to so it to him

Hoping the quote function worked correctly... Sitting in hospital... Not fun times.

I'll send you the list he uses for virtually every tournament as well as the one with the 2-3 small changes that he made for masters to secure comp a bit. The worst part of him making those changes is that they are now in his standard list and have made it significantly better. Biggest change was a noble to a seahelm (which he still argues is the worst choice in the book next to seaguard/sword masters). And just as a spoiler before I get home to get it to you - No handicapping banner of the world dragon.

There is single handedly no other list in the game that I have found to have as hard a time against as his list. That includes playing against alight councils, annoying ethereal VC, or the 1+/3+ disk flying level 4 warriors list. Hell, I'd think I would prefer to play the 2abom/60+ rat hordes than face that list. Such a pain to get points.


Sorry for the delayed response Teth. From the 3 games I've gotten in at small points 1k:
Glade riders:
No reason to spend any points on them for the arrows. Makes them cost a fortune and if you bring two units with a musician you're already starting the game with 210 points "down" and not guaranteed to help till turn 2 minimum and even then not charging a war machine/being useful for feigned flight till 3 Realistically.

Dryads:
Literally no reason. Ever.

GG - what everyone else is saying. But honestly... I've started to call them demonette launchers. Strength 3 ap... Nice against some things, need mass shooting though. Extremely expensive in the numbers we need for our combat blocks to be reliable I feel.

Wild riders:
Significantly better. I still despise we don't have a real fast cav to dictate movement on turn one except for war hawks.

Warhawks:
Work significantly better now and in conjunction with wild riders have the potential to be amazing. More Sethayla then before. Dictate movement and hit hard when you want.

Scouts/waywatchers:
These two units will make the Swedish comp destroy the avoidance wood elf list and thus make them at BEST a middle of the ground tournament army based on comps and a 20-0 system. More on this in a second.

Characters:
I see virtually no need for the "combat" characters. I can't even say that with a straight face. Level 4 of shadow will make a huge impact. Add in a heavens or death level 2 and you're good to go. Waystalkers have been fun, if not super effective.


Overall on book:
There is a bit if power increase (magic for sure) with a lateral shift in power. Take away the forest spirits and give the strengths to the elves. Problem is the elves have no reliable combat.

When I look at the books I rarely just sit and see it through "oh shiny". I look at it from a tournament perspective first usually. Swedish comp will destroy the wood elves in tournament settings (which means ETC will make them virtually unplayable in comparison). As I said earlier I don't think they will function in a 20-0 tournament. If you play no comp then an avoidance list will allow them a good chance in a win/loss/draw.

A Fair amount of the tournaments in the Midwest are adopting the Swedish comp or some variation of the ETC set up. Both systems kill you for avoidance/mass shooting and magic. They shifted the power from potential real combat power of the forest spirits to the elves which just fall over. Against good players the list will have a very difficult time due to said comps.

Army rules are very significant in the strength of the books currently in 8th edition. Our rules are way to reliant in a setting which normally has - 2 hills, 1 wood, 1 swamp (or some other nasty terrain) and 1 building. Unless we bring an acorn, which significantly hurts a lord character, we won't be able to really rely on the army rules.

Saying all this - I'm still going back to my original army in fantasy and going to play them anyways. Sick of my lizards and finished top 10 enough times that I need something new to do.

Real question now is:
Eternal Guard and Scouts or Glade Guard and Rangers. That is if I'm not playing my Sethayla list


Quick edit - looks like Swordmaster got to the masters list, I'll give you his old standard as well when I get home.

Also - sorry for spelling errors/grammar/what not - typing on the phone.

[MarkM]

Boskie,

Excellent analysis and one I totally agree with. Hope you get out of hospital quickly - never a nice place to be.

[Kaintxu]

Boskie Thanks a lot.

My other Army is Also lizardmen what list or lists do u usually use? Can't u PM with them? I will PM u mine which has won a couple of tourneys or done really bad on others hahaha

[Tethlis]

Sorry for the slow update. Been playing lots of games, but less time to write them up.

Since my last update, I played a couple of games with dual Treeman just to say I gave them a fair shake. List was something like:


-Treeman Ancient (Level 4) with Strangleroots
-Glade Captain with Bow of Loren, Hail of Doom Arrow, light armor, shield, Asrai Spear, battle standard, Elven Steed
-Spellsinger (Level 2) with Heavens, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed
-Dryads (10)
-Dryads (10)
-Glade Guard (15) with musician, standard, Hagbane tips.
-Glade Guard (10) with musician, Hagbane tips.
-Sisters of the Thorn (6) with musician, standard
-Wild Riders (6) with musician, standard, shields
-Wild Riders (6) with musician, standard, shields
-Waywatchers (10)
-Waywatchers (9)
-Treeman with Strangleroot

-2500 versus Greenskins
I touched upon this one already, but I decided I was going to give Treemen a try in a couple of games. The regular Treeman and Ancient were very nice, managing to get quickly into combat on Turn 2 to avoid being pummeled by missile fire. Arrows took out the warmachines while the regular Treeman tied up trolls, Ancient tied up Savage Orks. I cleared chaff, Manglers, Doom Divers etc. to get a handle on board control, then brought in Wild Riders to Coup de Grace the Savage Orks and Trolls after a few Rounds of Thunder Stomping and Tree Whacking, respectively. Wardancers helped on the Savage Orks, Dryads helped on the Trolls, for some big combined combats that dispatched them. Wild Riders are quickly becoming a favorite unit of mine... Their hitting power is easy to fall in love with. I liked being able to jam up big threats with the Treemen, repeatedly lifeblooming for durability to keep them in the fight. Life isn't a very impressive Lore for me though.

-2500 versus VC
Still another trial game with Treemen. I kept them tucked safely in back, suspecting Terrorgheists. There was one, which came a bit too close and got scraped off the table with a Wild Rider flank charge. The Treeman made a long charge on a chunky Vargheist unit, tying them up for multiple rounds of combat and creating a roadblock that the Blenderlord had to navigate around. The Vargheist combat sucked up a lot of my opponent's Dispel Dice as he tried to get them disengaged from the Treeman, giving me flexibility in other parts of the table. Enchanted Arrows cleared Ethereals and Dryads jammed up big blocks, redirecting them until I get get Wild Riders and even Waywatchers into the fight for massive crumbles. Game ended with all my units intact, fully surrounding the VC Lord's block as I danced repeatedly out of his charge arcs while shooting him down. With three shooting phases left for me, my opponent conceded.

I then reverted back to a variation of my original list, deciding to try the more dedicated avoidance setup that the internet seems to fear from us now:

-Spellweaver (Level 4) with Obsidian Lodestone, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed.
-Glade Captain with Bow of Loren, Hail of Doom Arrow, light armor, shield, Asrai Spear, battle standard, Elven Steed
-Glade Riders (5) with Hagbane tips
-Dryads (10)
-Glade Guard (12) with musician, standard, Banner of the Eternal Flame
-Glade Guard (15) with musician, Hagbane tips.
-Scouts (6) with Hagbane Arrows
-Scouts (6) with Hagbane Arrows
-Sisters of the Thorn (8) with musician, standard
-Wild Riders (7) with full command, shields, Gleaming Pennant
-Wild Riders (7) with full command, shields, Banner of Swiftness
-Waywatchers (10)
-Waywatchers (10)
-Great Eagle
-Great Eagle

2500 vs WoC
A fun throwdown against a vaguely netbuild WoC list: Nurgle Daemon Prince, Disc BSB, Throgg + two mid-sized Troll units, lots of Hounds and Marauder Horsemen, two Chimeras, lots of Gorebeast Chariots. My opponent made one critical error, charging Marauder Horsemen into a Dryad unit rather than simply redirecting. The Dryads beat them with ease, ran them down, Panicked one Chimera and were then unengaged to charge and tie up the other. The Daemon Prince held off his charge for one more turn to give his Leadership to the fleeing Chimera to help it rally, a key error because it gave me one last shooting phase to down the Daemon Prince with Waywatchers. The Wild Riders just ran roughshod over everything, they're so much fun to use and watch. The Eagles were great assistance, either giving them twice the chance of catching a broken target via Swifstride, or flying ahead of the Wild Riders to control their overrun move and stop them sprinting straight into a counter-charge. The Glade Guard and Scouts kept up steady ranged pressure on everything that Wild Riders didn't smash, either softening them up or killing them outright. One very good reminder to WoC players that their MSU builds aren't going to carry them very far with Wood Elf and Dwarf shooting taking such a toll on their chariots and fliers...

[Minsc]

Do you find Strangleroots worth it on an Ancient?

With BS4 it feels like it would hit on 5+ or 6+ most of the time, but I guess if there's nothing better to spend the points on you might as well get them, right?

Edit: Also, I assume you use your Sisters as a bunker for your BSB and spellsinger/weaver?

[Artorias]

Glad to see the Treeman doing some work. I've gotten a few games in with Durthu and its nice to see them tie up big blocks like other armies monsters can, granted this is the special character.

Also a huge fan of the Lodestone on the weaver. Nice efficient defense for a unit that shouldn't see CC.

How did the WoC game feel without the block of EG/WWR to help protect the back lines? I guess there wasn't really a big block for them to hold off and WE will always do MSU better, but do you think, for example, a unit of chaos knights would have caused some ruckus with only a unit of dryads to chew through?

-Art

[Shandrakor]

Do you find Strangleroots worth it on an Ancient?

With BS4 it feels like it would hit on 5+ or 6+ most of the time, but I guess if there's nothing better to spend the points on you might as well get them, right?

Wow, I hadn't even noticed that, but you're right. The Strangleroots needs to roll to hit now... -1 for Long Range, -1 for Moving, -1 for Multi-Shot (at BS4, that's already hitting only on a 6)... Seems nearly worthless for so few shots.

[Minsc]

Do you find Strangleroots worth it on an Ancient?

With BS4 it feels like it would hit on 5+ or 6+ most of the time, but I guess if there's nothing better to spend the points on you might as well get them, right?

Wow, I hadn't even noticed that, but you're right. The Strangleroots needs to roll to hit now... -1 for Long Range, -1 for Moving, -1 for Multi-Shot (at BS4, that's already hitting only on a 6)... Seems nearly worthless for so few shots.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking.

On a regular Treeman, BS 6 is the saving grace, but on a Ancient? Stand & Shoot/Moving, long range (not unlikely) and multiple shot = 6's to hit.

[Beithir Seun]

On a regular Treeman, BS 6 is the saving grace, but on a Ancient? Stand & Shoot/Moving, long range (not unlikely) and multiple shot = 6's to hit.

Y'know, I didn't even realise Strangleroots was an option for the Ancient until my second read-through of the book. Definitely seems like something that is better reserved for normal Treemen. I guess the Long Range modifier would be mitigated after the first couple of turns, with the Ancient still able to wade into combats, but that 20pts could have put the second Waywatcher unit back up to 10...

[EtherDude]

Thanks for posting Tethlis, I have a few questions:

-Spellweaver (Level 4) with Obsidian Lodestone, Dispel Scroll, Elven Steed.

Lore?

-Glade Guard (12) with musician, standard, Banner of the Eternal Flame

-Sisters of the Thorn (8) with musician, standard

Any reason not to give the sisters the banner of the eternal flame? M18, 12", BS5, quick to fire, AP, flaming, poison javelins seems like they can do some work. Potential down sides: flaming hail of doom arrow (see thread in pool of enlightenment) and the need to get your character bunker in 12" of something nasty. If not flaming, why not +1 ld?

How are you finding the BSB in a unit of fast cav? I have found it frustrating, especially with waywatchers' vulnerability to shooting/MM and panic.

[brechttomme]

The Eagles were great assistance, [...] flying ahead of the Wild Riders to control their overrun move and stop them sprinting straight into a counter-charge.

This made me think of another use for Eagles and WHR. Could you just fly them ahead of WR to make sure they can't charge an enemy due to Frenzy? It's not very useful if you are planning on charging something next turn, but it could prevent stupid double-6 Frenzy charges and charging the wrong unit (you know, the one just in your field of vision who is closer than the actual target).

Great work once again, Tethlis. A new question: what do you think of giving a 5-man GR unit Starfire Arrows? It's not a lot of shots and they only turn up on turn 2+, but they have an 83% chance of pinging the Regeneration off a Monster on the turn they appear (if within close range after moving), the rest of your (preferably Poisoned, I guess) shooting can then take it down. If they fail to Hit and Wound at least once and thus don't negate Regeneration, you can still likely try one more turn, or use them to actually redirect the Monster. Of course if there's no Monsters (or Trolls) around, they can go do their usual prancing-through-the-trees thing. Thoughts?

[Woodsman]

Hey there all and Tethlis, I've been following this thread closely and I'm a big fan, love the exchange of ideas. Tethlis, I was wondering if you'll be playing any 'filth' horde armies that have the numbers to bog down our shooting but have the hitting power to cause WE's grief. Skaven are a good example, with mass troops (clan rats, slaves for the screen) with problem units like double Abombs, ratling guns, doom rocket, plague monks and doom wheele... just to name a few. Would love to hear your thoughts on it.

Cheers

[Wrath_of_the_Wildwood]

My first post ever! What an awesome blog this has been for someone just returning to WFB with my beloved WE.
Someone posted a while ago re special characters.

I have run Durthu twice against ogres (I couldn't resist building him, out of the Treeman kit). Once he fell to an Ironblaster in one foul shot (my first time running him too what a travesty). The next time he held up a unit of bulls with full command and butcher for 3 turns before eventually succumbing when charged in the rear by Ironguts with a level 1 fire belly and lvl 4 slaughtermaster.

So enormous potential for pleasure and pain.

[Strykerr]

Bump

posts like this make me croaky
Frogboy