Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

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Ramesesis
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Ramesesis »

I feel, due to the Collection and conversion possibilites I have using bits from DE spearmens, and all my HE and WE bits and unbuilt figs I am still pretty set to make my own stuff. But there is one box I feel I NEED to buy and that is Sisters of Thorns. I just need 5 of these lassies in my army. So witchy, so northern, so Norse and Kalevala.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Andrew wrote:
Their miscast results are negligible as well.
I don't get this repeated nonsense. You lose D3 models when you miscast. How is losing 26-78 points and a likely panic check per miscast negligible???

They'll be a neat support unit; I wouldn't expect to see more than one unit of 5 though, unless you go big and take a 15+ unit for points denial.

They can heal/damage, or nerf with their spells. They're a great target for Wyssans so that they'd get S4, AP, poisoned shots.

The Curse DOES WORK on open ground.

- "treats all terrain as dangerous terrain"
- "Types of Terrain: Open Ground, Impassable Terrain, Mysterious Terrain, Dangerous Terrain."

It's a pretty big "duh" there.

On the other hand, if they just walk, they don't take the DT test, because it's only when you double move that you take the tests.
I'm guessing they mean miscasts are negligible because the low casting values mean they can be trying to get off spells on 2 dice quite reliably. Less dice used means less chance of a miscast.

I intend to be using at least 1 unit of 12 (maybe including another mage), possibly a second smaller one too. For only a few points more that a gladerider with poisoned arrows they get 4++, bs5, ld9, poisoned melee (although no spears), and their shooting strengh is as user, so can be boosted. That's not even considering the fact they're a caster.

Downside, shorter range. Which makes it more fun.

Alternatively, I may just take them in several units of 5 for the extra channeling rolls!
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Andrew
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Andrew »

Well, the casting values are 9 and 10 (or 9 and 9). 2-dicing is only 58% odds of getting that spell off; not that good, in my opinion. 3-dicing is a better norm if you want to be 90% sure of casting it. Still, that's only a 7% chance of miscast, so that's not so bad.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by UKlvrBM »

Imagine putting a heavens mage in this unit. Realistically, the only units able to reach these ladies are flyers. So, throw a mage in here with heavens and then target those flyers coming after you. D6 S4 hits for each spell successfully cast on them. This would work wonders on Lizards, who are my main foe. It would also be a wonderful day that I got to drop the comet on my Lizard friends. Payback, it is a m'fer.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Tethlis »

My first list is already considering a Level 4 with Scroll, ToPreservation, Heavens or Shadow, BSB with Hail of Doom, plus 7 of these ladies with Lichebone Pendant all running around providing support while enthusiastically not dying. I'm excited.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Andrew wrote:Well, the casting values are 9 and 10 (or 9 and 9). 2-dicing is only 58% odds of getting that spell off; not that good, in my opinion. 3-dicing is a better norm if you want to be 90% sure of casting it. Still, that's only a 7% chance of miscast, so that's not so bad.
Depends on the size of the unit, with a potential maximum of +5 to cast, the odds get a lot better. You might not want to pay for 15 of them, but a couple of singers/weavers using them as a bunker drops that to 13 allready. Don't need their spells this turn? Use free reform to put them in two ranks and you have 13 poisoned javelin shots.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by RonRJW »

"You know I luvs the ladies". Cant wait to field this unit. They are all just my type,and the unit too. :lol:
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by ivrg »

To me they seem like three things

1. a spellcaster using supporting spells, this is not bad.

2. A unit with BS5 throwing poison javelins. This is nice. They can block the path, throw some javelins and then flee when charged. Rally and continue.

3. an ordinary fast cav unit, doing the usual fast cav things. With ld9(this is great for fast cav then they rally on ld10)

I dont think its a unit thats intended to be used like warlocks(sprey out S5 hits), instead they have a more tactical roll that is also fun to play with. Dont underestimate that.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by InstantKarma »

I am liking that Armor Piercing seems to be 'sprinkled' throughout the book (Asrai Spears, and now these Javelins as well).

I think their rules look more balanced than 'Auto-locks' :D I agree with the assessment that Shield of Thorns should be viewed as a heal first and then something that can plink a model here or there. Curse is also golden, and if I remember it can also mess up warmachines. It seems this is a role this unit is meant to do, or possibly monster hunting (though I guess most monsters with weak/no armor save don't show up much) or just being a nuisance.

I also like the look of the models. Seems to be a throwback to the old Ariel model.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by godswearhats »

Don't underestimate shield of thorns. I've plinked wounds off dragons with that spell. People forget about it all too easily.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by popisdead »

godswearhats wrote:Don't underestimate shield of thorns. I've plinked wounds off dragons with that spell. People forget about it all too easily.
That sums it up. Chipping away wounds.

Doom and Darkness, Curse of Anraheir and a failed Fear test goes a long way in this game. They are a quality support unit. I would say Curse of Anraheir is arguably the most underrated spell in the book too.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by RonRJW »

godswearhats wrote:Don't underestimate shield of thorns. I've plinked wounds off dragons with that spell. People forget about it all too easily.
With the ability to now spam shield of thorns and stack it on an eagle, I believe thats 8 d6 s3 hits per turn, thats one hard hitting eagle all of a sudden. :eek:
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Samoht »

I know this is mostly about their uses, but I'm assuming it's the best place to also discuss the actual models too.

I have mixed feelings. Like the early treeman images, it could be the misplaced colour choices, but they look far too much like High Elves. The staves are too straight, the armour too pointy and the hair too uniform blonde and straight.

The antlers on those deer are anatomically weird, deer antlers don't grow from a skull shield and I really dislike mounted magic users carrying a staff. I always think of a wood elf staff as being planted in the ground to draw on natural energy, waving it around from the back of a mount seems unwieldy. I'll probably take the staves off and have them throwing a javelin.

Nothing some converting can't fix and other than all that I am excited about buying some and working them into a better Wood Elf look. Their poses are great and I love the overall theme.

I've never wanted a unit of unicorns, but it is a tempting idea, as even though I like the deer, it would be fairly simple to modify them into unicorns and that would make them look even more distinct from the wild riders.

Overall, if this had been a release for High Elves I'd have been really keen to buy it to convert into an Asrai unit, as it is I sort of feel I shouldn't have to.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

The pictures do definitely have the sisters painted like high elves, a different colour scheme should fix that.

You aren't the only one considering turning the stags into unicorns. The stags are perfect for conversion, and I think that for a lot of people, when they saw those models eyes lit up at the idea of unicorn cavalry.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Saniles »

Gurthaur wrote:You would still need quite a bunch of them to get those 6´s realiably. I for once wouldnt like to linger around a canon in 12", even with a 4+ ward.

But even if i was bitching around in the rumors thread about their looks, rulewise i think they are a great unit.
Most of the reasons have already benn stated, i would like to add, that now, that we have acces to dark magic, i would say they make a decent bunker for a dark magic user.
Given that javelins use the users strenght, the sisters would be a nice place to cast power of darkness, since they will probably always be in rang eof something to fire at, so that ST buff has reasonable use in many cases. Add the fact, that they can heal the caster with thorn shield if he happened to roll a 3, thats a neat place for him to be.
This is a bit late I realize... but any autowounds vs a warmachine are worth it. Look at gutter runners for instance... most people are running oh... 6 of them per group and they usually work out pretty well. Granted the Sisters won't have the same "show up where I want to" abilities, they are still fast enough to escape a lot of the units that get left behind to protect the warmachines if need be. Now, sisters are still another 25% and change per model compared to a single gutter runner with sling/poison, BUT, gutter runners are slower and they don't have magic.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Gerner »

Saniles wrote:This is a bit late I realize... but any autowounds vs a warmachine are worth it. Look at gutter runners for instance... most people are running oh... 6 of them per group and they usually work out pretty well. Granted the Sisters won't have the same "show up where I want to" abilities, they are still fast enough to escape a lot of the units that get left behind to protect the warmachines if need be. Now, sisters are still another 25% and change per model compared to a single gutter runner with sling/poison, BUT, gutter runners are slower and they don't have magic.
Just take Glade Riders (who has Ambush) and upgrade with poison arrows! :)
Feel like helping me out? Look at my army list thread: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25040 :)
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Saniles »

Gerner wrote:
Saniles wrote:This is a bit late I realize... but any autowounds vs a warmachine are worth it. Look at gutter runners for instance... most people are running oh... 6 of them per group and they usually work out pretty well. Granted the Sisters won't have the same "show up where I want to" abilities, they are still fast enough to escape a lot of the units that get left behind to protect the warmachines if need be. Now, sisters are still another 25% and change per model compared to a single gutter runner with sling/poison, BUT, gutter runners are slower and they don't have magic.
Just take Glade Riders (who has Ambush) and upgrade with poison arrows! :)
True enough, but then you don't have the magics and the ward save. I personally can't wait to get the new book. WE's are going to be my secondary army as I have models from way back when I played in high school (5th ed.) and I haven't touched them since... plus I started back up WHFB last year in Jan as the mighty(ish) Skaven.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Gerner wrote:
Saniles wrote:This is a bit late I realize... but any autowounds vs a warmachine are worth it. Look at gutter runners for instance... most people are running oh... 6 of them per group and they usually work out pretty well. Granted the Sisters won't have the same "show up where I want to" abilities, they are still fast enough to escape a lot of the units that get left behind to protect the warmachines if need be. Now, sisters are still another 25% and change per model compared to a single gutter runner with sling/poison, BUT, gutter runners are slower and they don't have magic.
Just take Glade Riders (who has Ambush) and upgrade with poison arrows! :)
They end up only 2 slaves cheaper, have -1bs, don't have quick to fire, don't have poisoned close combat attacks, and can't take a warmachine out on turn 1 because they are off the table.

I'd be considering sisters as good competition for gladeriders even if they didn't have spells.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by quiestdeus »

I suspect the first 6 dice I use every magic phase will be tossing out two Curses. Being able to utterly and entirely dictate the movement phase seems like our new forte, and with these ladies to curse larger blocks and eagles and warhawk riders to clear chaff and redirect, our killy block of choice (e.g., EG, GG, WR, WWR, TK) really really be able to go to town... I am so excited for the new book I can hardly wait for Friday.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by JazzMan »

I will probably run sisters as bodyguards for my Mage. With the speed to navigate dangerous parts of the battlefield, 4+ ward for durability and poison for harassment they seem like an ideal Mage bunker. The spells are just there for when my lead Mage loses concentration. I would rate them as pretty solid on paper, and expect their ingame use to be very versatile. Run high magic and watch the hits bounce from the lore attribute
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

JazzMan wrote:I will probably run sisters as bodyguards for my Mage. With the speed to navigate dangerous parts of the battlefield, 4+ ward for durability and poison for harassment they seem like an ideal Mage bunker. The spells are just there for when my lead Mage loses concentration. I would rate them as pretty solid on paper, and expect their ingame use to be very versatile. Run high magic and watch the hits bounce from the lore attribute
Me too, a few points on obsidian amultet or talisman gives magic resistance, just to really keep them safe from doombolts etc. I also give them the banner of swiftness, because 20" march on a support unit which can still fire at full effect is brilliant.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by gingersmali »

yer these guys seem like and idea character bunker/support unit. I think we'll see a lot of mounted BSB's and level 4's in with these guys.
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Re: Sisters of the Thorn Discussion

Post by Mithrilherz »

jgascoine011 wrote:I play dark elves and i love my warlocks, probably the best unit in the book (but actually fairly balanced).

The sisters however just look rubbish.
I play all elf factions as well, and we have to admit that the warlocks are broken for their costs. But why not use it?
I play in uncomped groups, and while I consider myself a fun player with usually themed lists, some members of my groups always come with the hard tournament lists, then I take at least two units of warlocks.

But High and Dark Elves also got more love from GW, in terms of books, new models and rules.

While the Sisters of Thorns are not an auto include, they will deliver good support, as already pointed out in this thread. I will definitely try them out.
I think there are much more what also the warlocks should be - balanced!
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