Tactics with our new magic potential

[ivrg]

So with all lores open for us. What is you thoughts on this?
I think lore of heaven can be good for a nice defensive line that want to stand back and shoot as much as possible.
I would really love to have that ogre irongut reg be closing in oon my arnchers and then push him 1d6+2 aways and continue firing. Lore of heaven also have some buffing spells that is nice.

Many players have been using lore of life, but will it not remain the best lore for WE?

It seems to me that high magic will also be a good alround alternative for WE.

[Zimmonda]

2 level 4's one on dark one on high for the epic trolz

[popisdead]

Depends on what the lore attributes are.

[Playonwords]

Id actually be very tempted to go metal. Enchanted blades on GG, Glittering robes on treekin, eternal guard and of course final transmutation deals with hordes (and sometimes characters) very well. Biggest thing of all - it enables dealing with high armour which has been the bane of wood elves for years.

[godswearhats]

Metal is high on my list too.

[kakwah]

Glittering robes on Treekin gives them a Scaly Skin 4+ and a Scaly Skin 5+ - you choose the best. They do not stack.

Saying that Metal is probably still the best option. Or high/heavens lvl 4 and a lvl 2 high.

Or a lvl 2 metal and a dragon...

[Playonwords]

Glittering robes on Treekin gives them a Scaly Skin 4+ and a Scaly Skin 5+ - you choose the best. They do not stack.

Good point - forgot about that.

[pip]

I think metal will really depend on how much anti-armour is available to regular units. 1+ armour saves have been a thorn in the foot for a while and metal is a simple solution to it.
However I am hoping there are more mundane solutions in upgrades or normal unit choices so I can use magic with a bit more flavour.

[kakwah]

I think metal will really depend on how much anti-armour is available to regular units. 1+ armour saves have been a thorn in the foot for a while and metal is a simple solution to it.
However I am hoping there are more mundane solutions in upgrades or normal unit choices so I can use magic with a bit more flavour.

Bit more flavour? Final Trans is pretty tasty....

[pip]

Bit more flavour? Final Trans is pretty tasty....

That particular spell leaves a bad taste in my mouth

[Playonwords]

I think metal will really depend on how much anti-armour is available to regular units. 1+ armour saves have been a thorn in the foot for a while and metal is a simple solution to it.
However I am hoping there are more mundane solutions in upgrades or normal unit choices so I can use magic with a bit more flavour.

I did consider this point. Given that Asrai spears now are AP, perhaps thatll be the standard equipment for eternal guard, glade riders, and stag riders (please let them exist), and therefore another way to deal with armour. However we will still need a way to get S5 or higher to bring those 1+ armour saves to a reasonable 4+ or higher. Spears on the charge already give +1S and hopefully some of the mounted elites will get S4 basic. Infantry will still struggle though without a well-timed wissans or mindrazor.

Shooting may well have AP as well (which was the case in 6th ed if im not mistaken).

[Drstrangelove]

I think metal will really depend on how much anti-armour is available to regular units. 1+ armour saves have been a thorn in the foot for a while and metal is a simple solution to it.
However I am hoping there are more mundane solutions in upgrades or normal unit choices so I can use magic with a bit more flavour.

I did consider this point. Given that Asrai spears now are AP, perhaps thatll be the standard equipment for eternal guard, glade riders, and stag riders (please let them exist), and therefore another way to deal with armour. However we will still need a way to get S5 or higher to bring those 1+ armour saves to a reasonable 4+ or higher. Spears on the charge already give +1S and hopefully some of the mounted elites will get S4 basic. Infantry will still struggle though without a well-timed wissans or mindrazor.

Shooting may well have AP as well (which was the case in 6th ed if im not mistaken).

Yeah this is the thing. Wild riders with the razor standard were S5 (on the charge) AP, and that felt like enough to take on armour saves. So I was planning to run a large unit of these once they got ASF and a straight ward save. If I can save on the banner that would be amazing. But I doubt it. I think the Asrai spear will be confined to eternal guard.

but I'm hoping the stag knights (which do exist, pics now to prove it....although they look like cavalry not MC) are S5, which would be great

[brechttomme]

It all depends on the synergies with the new rules, but if it would stay as is, I could definitely see myself using the Lore of Metal and the Lore of Beasts, with a possibility of Shadow, Heavens and High Magic. I feel all of those choices (bar maybe the High Magic, I mean, High Elves are our sworn enemies right?) are very fluffy and extremely useful.

Metal, obviously for the anti-armour component and the ability to give armour to our elves/dryads but the Enchanted Blades would also be amazing on Glade Guard and Transmutation of Lead could help out in combat. Plus, you know, it has Final Transmutation. Now, I've never really been a big fan of the massively destructive sixth spells, but they are good for bringing down hordes and even if you don't use them they have a certain tendency to play mind games on your opponent .

Beasts because, well, it's simply an awesome lore. Though maybe with a level 4 on a different lore, a level 2 on Beasts will be enough. All the spells except Transformation of Kadon are excellent, and you can exchange one for the ever-powerful Wyssan's Wildform.

The other three lores are also great. Shadow is insanely powerful in debuffing, particularly with the Withering. Imagine casting that on a tough Ogre unit or whatever, and then shooting it off the board in a single turn. Also, Pit of Shades is great for dealing with monsters and I'd like to use Okkam's Mindrazor on a unit of Wardancers. Just once, please!

Heavens has great synergy with our Movement-based tactics. If we have enough to deal with armour in the book by itself, I could see using a Level 4 on Heavens being great. Wind Blast and Comet of Casandora mean you can restrict and control your enemy's movement, setting up the field exactly as you want it. That, combined with our superior movement, will allow us to strike when and where we want to. The lore also has two good lightning spells that do damage at high Strength, which we lack at range, and the re-rolling spells can be great to enhance us or prevent people damaging our big trees and negate (H)KB. Not to forget, it also has, arguably, the second best Signature Spell in the game (after Wyssan's of course!).

For High Magic, it does still depend on the Lore attribute we will get, but Hand of Glory on archers could be insane, and Fiery Convocation could help deal with hordes. Plus, Walk Between Worlds could be fun to mess up your opponent's game plans and Drain Magic/Vaul's Unmaking do really offer something unique. For now though, it seems to me that the other lores above are better. But really, a lot will depend on the Lore attribute and the rest of our army book!

[Phil Rossiter]

Yeah this is the thing. Wild riders with the razor standard were S5 (on the charge) AP, and that felt like enough to take on armour saves. So I was planning to run a large unit of these once they got ASF and a straight ward save. If I can save on the banner that would be amazing. But I doubt it. I think the Asrai spear will be confined to eternal guard.

I think there has to be some way to augment the 6++ or we'll get shot off the table.

Spells if nothing else but that's not so reliable.

[Tethlis]

I have always found Elves to benefit strongly from Shadow... It's a hard lore to argue with for augmenting the existing strengths of Elven capability.

Edit: Also, I mentioned this in another thread, but I think Dark could synergize better for WE than it does for DE. It directly addresses a lot of things that WE have to deal with now.

-Power of the Darkness is a generally useful Combat buff that also extends the magic phase. A mounted caster in a unit of the new Cav, walled off with a couple of Nobles and Full Command in the front rank, could put this spell to great use. Also great if it can be taken by multiple Level 1 Combat Casters (something similar to Branchwraiths, perhaps?)

-Doombolt is obviously a strong spell. Dangerous to 6-dice if you're not a Warlock, but still powerful.

-Chillwind threatens BS-based shooting, which is on the rise now. HE, DE, Lizardmen and Ogres use it extensively, and it's not unknown in other armies. Not bad depending on matchup.

-Word of Pain is a combat winner, combining offensive and defensive assets. Obviously a high priority dispel for opponents, and also helps win the shooting phase by reducing Ballistic Skill.

-Bladewind is solid anti-horde for its low cast value. Matchup dependent, but strong.

-Shroud of Despair is practically ideal for an army that hates Steadfast opponents, has lots of Fear and Terror causers and likes to cause Panic with shooting. I suspect Wood Elves will still be all of those things in the next book.

-Soul Stealer isn't bad, able to dent big units with low-to-average Toughness such as Empire Knight busses or Elven infantry blocks. If we do get any kind of combat caster who can access Soul Stealer, it gets even better. This is pure speculation, but a Treeman Ancient with this spell...

-Black Horror is also a good anti-horde, and is particularly good versus Monstrous Infantry and heavy cavalry since it removes entire models and ignores armor. Lots of armies don't want to be hit by this.

If it gets an even moderately decent Lore Attribute... Game on.

[Findecano]

Well to begin with I'm going to be relying on hero level wizards for the most part, L2 metal and possibly either beasts or shadows as the other. I'm done with weavers for the moment, there have been so many CC lords I've wanted to play this edition but haven't because of the weaver tax, I'm breaking out Orion and my Dragon lord.

[Gurthaur]

I see the most potential with Dark, Shadow, High and Heavens, for the reasons already stated.

Especially Hand of Glory from High Magic could be extremly powerful for us, as i already stated in the rumors thread,
due to its very low casting value and our ST Bonus when shooting at short range.

As for metal, i really love that lore, but im not sure if it brings the amount of utility i want to find in my lore of choice.
- Final Transmutation is surely nice, i like it very much since its not as insane as some other Unit killer spells and not dependant on a specific stat weaknes, but that said
its not the most powerful spell of its kind out there. Still nice though.
- Transmutation of lead is not exactly bad, but you already get armor reduce from another spell in the same lore that is permanent, and there are much better curses in shadow and dark magic.
- Gehennas golden Hounds is outright useles. If you roll this it basicaly means you rolled the signature spell.
- While glittering Robes is undoubtedly good, its wasted on units that already have scaly skin, and imho subpar on units that had no armor save before, especially small ones. While great on eternal guard and wild riders, it doenst do too much for aour other units.
- Aibans is surely powerfull, especially with rerolls, but han again, hitting shouldnt be the problem with asf, we dont exactly lack magical attacks and depending on who gets the asrai spears its AP part might very well be wasted in some cases. Still a great spell though, especialy on GG if they keep their ST4 on short range.
- Plague of Rust is a nice spell, but in my opinion subpar. First it collides with the signature spell, than its not so much of an effect if you reduce, lets say 5+ armor to 6+, so its main use, at least in my opinoin, is against heavy infantry, which is nice, especially with ap on your spears, but than egain its kind of a niche.
- Lastly searing doom, thats the spell many people pick the lore for, obviously perfect against high Armor units. Thats great, but with access to all the lores, there are more than enough spells to kill high armor targets to choose from, where the rest of the lore offers more flexibility.

That all said my favourit pick atm would be Dark Magic.

Well those are only my thoughts, and ofcourse you cant say anything for sure before the army book is out. And from what we curently know, all of us might be named Jon Snow.

[ivrg]

Gehennas is not useless even if its a copy of the signature. Reason is high armor monsters and that the signature is very good aginst high armor opponents.

[CauCaSus]

Its also a sniper spell unlike the sig spell.

[chickenbane]

Before the new book came out I used Shadow in a WE comp a couple of times and it was gold! With the rumors about -3AS arras combine that with the withering and thats a unit gone. I found Melkioth's another versatile spell, the strength reducing spell gives Dryads their toughness back. Pit and pendulum are a bit chod (I suppose situational) but giving Okkrams to a wood elf unit is pure joy! I had a unit of 8 wardancer's all Okkramed up destroy 8 brettonian knights with the general in it. I really don't think Shadow will be any less useful but until I get my hands on the book I won't really know.

[quiestdeus]

Has anyone had any experience with using Lore of Light? Assuming I will be running 2 units of Sisters of the Thorn, I have been looking at which lore to run on a level 4 spellweaver. I was initially all aboard the Dark or Shadows bandwagon, but really looking back over the options I kinda want to give Light a try.

Pha's protection seems great when stacked with a Curse (or two) from SotT, keeping our low armor low toughness units alive by simply making them impossible to hit.

Shield of light is so-so - WS10 is nothing to complain about (especially if the unit is already hitting at -1 due to curse or pha's), but hardly necessary

Light of battle is admittedly situation, and usually 'meh'

Net of amyntok seems great as another movement control spell to go along with Curse from the SotT

Banishment is great even without a light council backing it up (although there is nothing saying a lvl2 spellsinger could not ride with the lvl4...making this even better)

Time warp on Wild Riders is just downright insane. 36" march to re-position in a pinch? +18" to charge distance AND another attack? Brutal, just brutal. You could imagine a first turn vanguard, 18" march to get into position, followed by cursing or netting a unit to keep it in position, getting time warp off then obliterating something turn 2. Seems... good

[Gerner]

Time warp on Wild Riders is just downright insane. 36" march to re-position in a pinch? +18" to charge distance AND another attack? Brutal, just brutal. You could imagine a first turn vanguard, 18" march to get into position, followed by cursing or netting a unit to keep it in position, getting time warp off then obliterating something turn 2. Seems... good

Your characteristic can never exceed 10, so no more than 20'' march and so on.

[quiestdeus]

No idea why I thought Movement was a unique snowflake. That's what I get for dabbling in those dirty circle bases! Good catch, definitely brings Time Warp down a couple notches given we already have ASF.

[Rogue Sun]

No idea why I thought Movement was a unique snowflake. That's what I get for dabbling in those dirty circle bases! Good catch, definitely brings Time Warp down a couple notches given we already have ASF.

It's still a brutal spell for Wild Riders. You're talking 6 attacks per model (4 from rider, 2 from mount) all with ASF. Nothing is going to survive a charge like that.

[Fitz]

Is there now definitely no lore of athel Loren? Or are there just no rumours about it?