AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Discuss anything related to the Asrai, our forests, or camps around the Old World in here.

Moderator: Council of Elders

Do you want a tool to balance AoS army builds?

Yes, but your math is questionable
0
No votes
Yes, I will try this Algorithm
6
23%
No, I'll stick with 8th
6
23%
No, I'm angry at numbers because there are too many of them!
5
19%
I would like a point balancing-algorithm, but still I'm going to play 7th/8th or something else.
9
35%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 08 Aug 2015, 22:38

Thanks for the condolences, but I seriously believe this is how the game was built.

First they looked at the model range and assigned the attacks, wounds, movement, save, and bravery stats. Then they applied special rules and damage stats to reflect the 'cost' of the models.

By hiding the math for awhile and focusing on campaigns, the company stands to gain new players while they work out the kinks. They know this will cost them the veteran players, but I think that they want the competitive veterans to step aside for awhile so the new players can learn and have fun. Then after the game has become more established they'll put out the 'point-costs' and the veterans (that didn't sell/burn their armies) will come back, but the newer players will be more experienced.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Merlin Elf friend » 10 Aug 2015, 13:09

Hi "NN" I think you have hit the proverbial "nail on the head" here; GW is definitely pushing the "Beer and Pretzels"/new guys end of the scale at the moment! However as sales slow down with the "new toys" becoming a tad less shiny, then I think they will start to introduce some numbers caps and points to win back some of the "old faithful's".

However they do appear to be planning on a number of Age of Sigmar hardback books next; anyone have any idea on How Many?
Noticed the Limited Edition "Quest for Ghal Maraz" has a number One on the cover (WD Issue 80).

The series is called "The Realmgate Wars"; BUT the first one seems to finish off the Realm of Life - involving Skaven of Clan Pestilence (plus) Nurgle and also goes onto the Realm of Metal (Chamon). So it doesn't seem to be one book per Realm (the obvious way to IMHO).

Regards Merlin Ef.
Merlin Elf friend
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 129
Joined: 11 Mar 2014, 13:11

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 30 Aug 2015, 10:29

Hey guys, just wanted to humble brag about playing my best (most fun/competitive/strategic/engaging) game of warhammer ever thanks to AoS and the Point Cost Algorithm! We played 1500 points each, I had 2 "Wanderer Host" and 1 "Deepwood Guardians"
My Bretonnian buddy brought an "all knight force" lead by a Paladin on a Pegasus he named 'Sky Marshall Steve.' At 1500 pts, he had his General, 2 Damsels, a unit of mounted yeomen, and a mix of Knights Errent, Knights of the Realm, and Grail Knights totaling roughly 60 models.
So I had:

Governor Trojanoak (Glade Lord w/Bow o' Loren, Hunting falcon, HODA) -42 pts

Colonel Diaz (Glade Lord w/ Great Sword, BoL) - 39 pts

2 Spell Weavers w/staffs - 13 each = 26 pts

4 units of Glade Girls - (24 x 6) x 4 = 576 pts

2 units of Glade Riders (5 x 24) x 2 = 240 pts

2 units of Eternal Guard (10 x 6) 2 = 120 pts

1 unit of War Dancers (5 x 8) =40 pts

1 unit of Wild Wood Ranger (5 x 8) = 40 pts

2 units of Dryads (5 x 8) x 2 = 80 pts

3 Treeman Ancient - 80 each = 240 pts


The game went until turn 6, when the Brettonians conceded defeat. The high points for me in the game were:

1. Early game, my teleporting Treemen survived multiple knight charges, pestering his force with shooting and magic. One went down to Sky Marshall Steve, after surviving a charge from a large unit of knights, but then...

2. Governor Trojanoak killed the uninjured Sky Marshall Steve with his Hail of Doom arrow!

3. During turn 5, the Bretonnians made their big charge and smashed every knight he had (except the grail knights) into my first defensive line of Eternal Guard, and 3 of the 10 survived with cover and 'fortress of boughs'. I went after that and finally unleased the Glade Girl's bodkins that I'd been saving. His numbers were devastated, and his battle shock rolls didn't go well. We rolled for turn six, I won the roll off and he conceded.

My mistakes/failures:

1. Early 2nd turn I lost half a unit of Glade Girls to sloppy ambush positioning... and even worse... to Bretonnian archers. Dammit.

2. Couldn't use one of the Treeman's magic because I held him as back up in the same forest my Eternal Guard made their defensive line. If I had, he'd have killed more EG then the knights did.

3. Left a large enough gap in my line for the well positioned grail knights to move through and charge a unit of glade girls. The knights devastated them with a single charge, and I had been saving their bodkins too! If I hadn't won the roll of for turn 6 he might had been able to put a serious hurting on me. That's why he waited until the roll off before he called it.

Anyway it was exciting and we both agreed that it was the best game we'd ever played and that AoS is the best.
Last edited by Nicholas Nitro on 02 Sep 2015, 21:28, edited 1 time in total.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Leohindus » 31 Aug 2015, 08:20

I'm glad to hear it. I really hope AOS develops into a strong worthwhile game, sadly in my area no one is playing it, everyone has decided to stick with 8th Edition, so very limited opportunities to play. Over time I guess less and less will play 8th, but it doesn't seem like many will take to AOS.
Leohindus
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 19 Jul 2013, 01:51

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 02 Sep 2015, 21:27

Just tell them that the suspected "battle-line" scenario was leaked.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Condor » 08 Sep 2015, 12:11

Ingenious, I dare say, in that the formula is not too complex but still takes into account what should be. It's interesting e.g. how the treeman (character) comes out with a number just slightly different from the treeman (unit).
Condor
Newcomer
User avatar Newcomer
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 08 Sep 2015, 07:00

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 08 Sep 2015, 21:11

Yeah it's because the unit has 5 ranged attacks, but the hero only has one. One of my friends thinks that wizards should have an additional 10 point cost, but then I remember how much damage a hail of doom arrow can do.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Jezandu » 22 Sep 2015, 17:50

You do know this has already been done? If you go to war of sigmar site that is run by lady atia you will find all you need points wise and rules to go along with it.

It's works well too. Just not many know about it yet.
Jezandu
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 03 Jun 2014, 11:28

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 22 Sep 2015, 21:52

Hey that's crazy awesome! Thanks for sharing it.
What is this 'magic math formula' they keep mentioning? My numbers are similar on several models but crazy different on others!
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Jezandu » 22 Sep 2015, 22:39

I'm not sure what the magic formula is, think there is some mention in earlier posts on it. It looks like all the armies are done now so it would be interesting how people find it. It's been good for me so far but I've not had chance to try against various armies just Orks.
Jezandu
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 03 Jun 2014, 11:28

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Jezandu » 22 Sep 2015, 22:44

Here's the link if anyone can't find it on google and wants to try it out

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/races
Jezandu
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 03 Jun 2014, 11:28

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby PensivePanther » 22 Sep 2015, 22:47

I always felt constrained by GW's point values. They never felt right. I much prefer me and my opponent looking at each other's deployment and agreeing that things look balanced. However I admit I play with friends and things are usually civil. I can imagine things get much harrier once a tournament scenario is presented or your opponent is abrasive.
PensivePanther
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 Dec 2014, 18:52

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 22 Sep 2015, 23:06

@Jezandu They gave Glade Guard and Eternal Guard are both 1 more point then in my numbers, but WW are 5 more and heroes/casters are WAY more expensive. Hunting hounds, glade riders, and warhawk riders are all cheaper. Maybe they multiply my numbers with a damage output formula?

@PensivePanther I totally agree with your stance, especially in scenario battles. Attackers and defenders were almost never 'balanced'. That being said, I think an objective tool for measuring an opponent's strengths is helpful when you aren't familiar with what they are capable of doing with their models.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 336
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: AoS Point Cost Algorithm!

Postby Jezandu » 07 Oct 2015, 00:05

Another really good points balancer is the azyr comp list which is now being used in various tournaments. It's now been made into a great little calculator that uses pool system or point system

Check it out!

http://scrollbuilder.com/
Jezandu
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 56
Joined: 03 Jun 2014, 11:28

Previous

Return to The Hall of Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron