Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Avalon101 » 06 Jul 2015, 10:21

I had my first game yesterday against High Elves (and 3 storm cast eternals that we got from white dwarf). He took Alith Anar, 10 shadow warriors, 3 storm cast eternals, 5 swords masters and a both thrower. I took 2 Treemen, a Shadow Dancer, 5 Wardancers, and 14 Eternal Guard. The second tree man was because after I counted up his models I realised that I could, so why not?!

He got turn 1 and shot his Shadow Warriors against the Treeman. Multiple shots of ballistic skill shooting is now pretty scary against monsters because there are no modifiers to wound for toughness. They had 2 shots each, hitting on 3s wounding on 4s (if I remember correctly). The tree man took 2 wounds after saving throws and I felt lucky to get away with that. He advanced with all units except the bolt the bolt thrower which shot and took 2 wounds from my shadow dancer.

In my turn 1 I did the rend shot with my glade guard against the storm cast eternals and marched the tree man up who strangle rooted the rest of them. They all died. I "steed of shadowed" or whatever it is called now (shadow bridge?) my war dancers into the swords masters and the tree man also charged them. The other side, the eternal guard and other tree man fought the shadow warriors. I won both combats basically by going first and being able to wittle him down substantially before he could attack back. Combat is incredibly brutal, expect to lose your most dearly held units like they are loose change if they have a bad engagement.

Overall impressions: Its a fun game! Its is very streamlined compared to war hammer fantasy (we were done in about 20 minutes), but not so much that you can't have a good tactical game from it. Wood Elves feel like they have a lot of tools to take on a variety of enemies.

The war dancers are the new wild riders imo. They are 2 inches faster than other elves, they can steed of shadow across the table and land with a LOT of attacks (then all die horribly because tattoos are NOT armour!).

The Treeman feels like a very solid choice. Good ranged attack (that will hit on 2s) and close combat attacks that cause D6 wounds for character assassination (thats how I got Alith).

Glade Guard are as good as ever. Rend really helps to deal with the scarier units before you have to deal with them in combat and enough shots will kill a lone character outright in turn 1 if you're lucky. I could have very easily lost my shadow dancer, so he'll be behind the unit or in cover all game next time for sure!

Magic is subtle but if you keep your wizard away form the enemy there is no way they can try to dispel your spells and a lot of them are relatively easy to cast. Im thinking of running mounted mages because they are so mobile. They can move out of range of the enemy wizard to get that really important spell off and back into range to attempt a dispel.

Eternal Guard were a bit meh (just like old times). I think we'll see wildwood rangers played a lot more often than these guys.

It was really cool to see how our units play. I think that deployment has become a really fun phase. You play a load of monsters, I play a load of Wildwood Rangers. I see your Wildwood Rangers and I raise you 3,000 zombies etc.!

I'm looking forward to playing again. We both agreed at the end of the game that although it was fun, we would try to play a game like 100 wounds vs. 100 wounds, 10 scroll limit, no duplicate scrolls next time as a way to get a more balanced game.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 06 Jul 2015, 10:22

GW release a brand new game, immediately the internet community says it's broken and invent their own rules...

:confused:
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Avalon101 » 06 Jul 2015, 10:27

Everyone is worried about *that guy* with 10 demon princes in his bits box. lol
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 10:49

frogboy wrote:GW release a brand new game, immediately the internet community says it's broken and invent their own rules...

:confused:


Anyone can wonder (especially someone who hasn't played a game of AoS or warhammer at all recently) all they like of course.. but one could also wonder why several (here on the forum already)/ multitudes of people (what I've read online) have come to this same conclusion seperate from each other within a week of the game being released. The fact a game is released sadly doesn't mean all it's rules are good as they are.

Good luck being confused.. another option is to actually read the rules and the comments made about it.. that would probably help against the confusion.

Avalon101 wrote:Everyone is worried about *that guy* with 10 demon princes in his bits box. lol


10 greater deamons might not happen that quickly.. but there is enough stuff someone with a small army can't really handle.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Cernunnos » 06 Jul 2015, 15:14

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Was just on the Forge World website and they are working on Warscrolls for their stuff too!!
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Hyarion » 06 Jul 2015, 15:35

Emperor Fire Dragon! Woooo!
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If you refuse to capitalize on your strengths or make the most of your opponent's weaknesses, you are begging to lose.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 06 Jul 2015, 16:26

Aezeal wrote:
frogboy wrote:GW release a brand new game, immediately the internet community says it's broken and invent their own rules...

:confused:


Anyone can wonder (especially someone who hasn't played a game of AoS or warhammer at all recently) all they like of course.. but one could also wonder why several (here on the forum already)/ multitudes of people (what I've read online) have come to this same conclusion seperate from each other within a week of the game being released. The fact a game is released sadly doesn't mean all it's rules are good as they are.

Good luck being confused.. another option is to actually read the rules and the comments made about it.. that would probably help against the confusion.


Aezeal, why do you keep ending conversations in this way ?

But to carry on the discussion, lots of people on the internet believe that, or may have expressed that there may need to be a balance in the way the game is played. But do we really need that, isn't that going to be confusing for pick up games, didn't GW just simplify the rules for this exact reason? We don't need FAQ's any more we can just rock up at a gaming club/store and after a quick chat whip out or toys and start to play.
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 18:50

frogboy wrote:
Aezeal wrote:
frogboy wrote:GW release a brand new game, immediately the internet community says it's broken and invent their own rules...

:confused:


Anyone can wonder (especially someone who hasn't played a game of AoS or warhammer at all recently) all they like of course.. but one could also wonder why several (here on the forum already)/ multitudes of people (what I've read online) have come to this same conclusion seperate from each other within a week of the game being released. The fact a game is released sadly doesn't mean all it's rules are good as they are.

Good luck being confused.. another option is to actually read the rules and the comments made about it.. that would probably help against the confusion.


Aezeal, why do you keep ending conversations in this way ?

But to carry on the discussion, lots of people on the internet believe that, or may have expressed that there may need to be a balance in the way the game is played. But do we really need that, isn't that going to be confusing for pick up games, didn't GW just simplify the rules for this exact reason? We don't need FAQ's any more we can just rock up at a gaming club/store and after a quick chat whip out or toys and start to play.


It's not ending the conversation.
I posted that because despite that I've made several detailed posts explaining why it's not working for a large part of the players you keep replying with condescending remarks which have no arguments at all for the 2nd time in a row and end them with a silly smilie.

Luckily this last post I can reply to in another way since you now post arguments:

But to carry on the discussion, lots of people on the internet

It's not only on the internet for me, I've heard it said by 10 people playing the game. And that was 10/10 present.

But do we really need that, isn't that going to be confusing for pick up games, didn't GW just simplify the rules for this exact reason?

No we do not need it. It's annoying as hell. First impressions are worth a lot and I've read a lot of replies from people who stood through the end times, all the rumors which made some already quit and might quit now. I just don't understand why GW didn't see that too.
For new players it will be annoying if you bring this up of course.. and against a new player I would not mention this and play a game with a suboptimal army.
But I only play once per 2 or 3 weeks and I only play in my shop.. I don't really know who I will be playing and I don't know them well in anycase... if I bring a lot of monsters because that is just the best thing and I dislike playing with a suboptimal army. I come there assuming I will play a great player with his best army.

But even for new players it can be annoying. If you have a few new guys in the shop (not neccesarily friends) and one has... twice the cash to spend it might be that in his 2nd game he will be bringing 2 monsters instead of one. It's basicly game over already then since there is nothing preventing him to just play with them.. and he will probably want to play with them. It is one of the things that might be fun about Age of Sigmar: You can play with way more big guys (I'd not played with Durthu before and not with Orion since my returns to the game last turn let alone play with 2 dragon and 4 treeman or something similar. But there is nothing that prevents you from doing that despite what the opponent has.

We don't need FAQ's any more we can just rock up at a gaming club/store and after a quick chat whip out or toys and start to play

Now the rules are free they can make FAQ's easily and I think they should do that. But these first rules should just have been better. All other games in the genre have at least 50 pages of rules.. I don't think another page or 2 of rules would have hurt much.
And sure you can whip up a quick game but it also means you can face an army much weaker or much stronger, if you don't mind that there is no problem but I think most people prefer a game where the one playing better will win after a tough exciting game and these rules hardly guarantee that. So it would have been nice if that was provided.

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Is that a forgeworld thing?
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Cernunnos » 06 Jul 2015, 18:51

Yes it is, from Warhammer forge. I just want to field my plague Toads and TAMURKHANNNNN!!!!!! :D might not need another model in my army once I put him on the table!! :D
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 19:04

He seems nasty, should probably be a 16 wound model in AoS.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Ramesesis » 06 Jul 2015, 20:41

Please, gentlemen! No need to fall out over this.

I suggest you both take deep breath.

What Aezeal points to is that the game does NOT fullfill the needs of many gamers who wants a competitive element. And despite being a cuddly fluffbunny as I am when my army is placed I intend to win or at least try too. But win with what I have at hand, like a real military commander. I hate the idea of playing hardcore monsterherohammer as Aezeal described.
Even facing powergamer in the old days, the army I face still looked like an army. I did it once, my balanced WE against Tomb Kings in 2007. Started out bad but thanks to my highborn his Eternal Guard going above and beyond and breaking through to the other side and my smal, wardancer unit killing both King and Prince I turned it around. It was hard but I managed. It would be impossible today since like Aezeal points out, I would have to fight against both supertough models AND his outnumbering bonus.

GW just assumed everyone will play with lots of units. And that everyone only play with their best chums. And that people will take weak units for some strange reason just because they can.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Cosmos » 06 Jul 2015, 21:16

Hey guys I dont know if you get emails from GW but I got one today promoting their AoS app, which will include and army builder tool. I REALLY hope this addresses the army composition rules because that seems to be a big issue for this new game (i know the problems that people have dont end there, but its a start)
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 22:27

Ramesesis wrote:Please, gentlemen! No need to fall out over this.

I suggest you both take deep breath.

What Aezeal points to is that the game does NOT fullfill the needs of many gamers who wants a competitive element. And despite being a cuddly fluffbunny as I am when my army is placed I intend to win or at least try too. But win with what I have at hand, like a real military commander. I hate the idea of playing hardcore monsterherohammer as Aezeal described.
Even facing powergamer in the old days, the army I face still looked like an army. I did it once, my balanced WE against Tomb Kings in 2007. Started out bad but thanks to my highborn his Eternal Guard going above and beyond and breaking through to the other side and my smal, wardancer unit killing both King and Prince I turned it around. It was hard but I managed. It would be impossible today since like Aezeal points out, I would have to fight against both supertough models AND his outnumbering bonus.

GW just assumed everyone will play with lots of units. And that everyone only play with their best chums. And that people will take weak units for some strange reason just because they can.


I've just read the deamons warscrolls.. someone with access to those models... will break any woodelves (probably a lot of other armies too, but maybe some others are just as strong)... they have so much summoning spells (every daemon basicly gives all their mages the ability to summon them). Bloodthirster for 10+, but herald of Khorne for 5+, 10 bloodletter (good infantry with tons of special rules) on 6+, skull cannon 8+, the lord of change is only 9+ too..... every mage they put on the table has a more than 50% chance to summon a 6 wound, 7 attacks model each turn (herald of Khorne), or a 1/6 chance to summon a bloodthirster that is stronger than anything in our army, and 1 1/3 chance to summon a lord of change which might not beat every models we have 1-1 but is very scary none the less. Or more insane: summon daemon mages on 5+ who can summon more daemons the next turn... or wait.. nothing says they cannot summon the turn they arrived in the rules either I guess (plz correct me if I'm wrong) so you can keep summoning with your newly summoned wizards to get.. MORE wizards to summon more wizards.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 22:43

Daemon Engine:

Step 1: start with a lot of Chaos Wizard models (there are actually tons of them). Get a herald of Tzeentch and the Bluescribes.



Step 2:

Every mage summons A Herald of T on disc or Bluescribes:
Summoning a Herald on Disc for 5+ or Blue scribes for 4+ is pretty easy. Those models are chaos wizards themselves, the herophase is not yet finished and there are no rules that say they can't summon MORE heralds or scribes in the same turn.. as long as you throw 4+ or 5+. (if you are on the backlines can't even get dispelled).

There are no special characters in this game or anything forbidding multiples of named characters as far as I recall.



So this gives a big chance to more than double your chaos mages in a turn.





Step 3:
Not to mention: The bluescribes have a special rule that means that on a roll of 2+ on 1 D6 they AUTO CAST a spell.. no limits to what kind of spell. So if you started with a Bloodthirster on the table (and what self respecting choas player doesn't) you can now auto summon a bloodthirster with your blue scribes on a 2+. You can't be unbound if you are out of range of mages ofc.



Step 4:

But since you are playing Tzeentch you can also start with a Lord of Change.. so you can summon Lords of change instead of the Blood thirsters..

And guess what Lord of change are ... Chaos Wizards.. who can summon.. MORE blue scribes on a 4+.



Now I realize not everyone has a gazillion Lords of change, Heralds of Tzeentch and Bluescribes... but if you had... what (except any form of morality - we all know chaos players don't have that) prevents you from.... this atrocity.



Let me know the error in my thinking plz.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Ramesesis » 06 Jul 2015, 22:50

It is clear that GW truly want to driver away all who game even remotely competitively. Like I said, I am very soft but I like to do my best with my fluffbunny army.

I also like to be able to have a game with gamers of different styles without having to going through a long haggle about what to take and not to take. I also do not like how both sides now trashtalk each other more fiercely than ever. Just have fun and relax!

Well, but if playing a tight and challenging game was part of the fun? Not a maxed out armies game but two background based armies trying their best being true to their stories. I love strategy game and when I am prepared for it I like to take on the odds, like the romans at Cannae or Teutoburger wald. But I do it trying my harder to beat the odds. The attitudes of AoS does not seem to be the same. You are not supposed to be serious.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Killerdou » 06 Jul 2015, 22:51

What's the point of summoning if you can just start the game with all of those models anyways?

edit:
Don't say outnumber rules, because if you're outnumbered by deamons of chaos there is no rule that'll fix that:P
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Ramesesis » 06 Jul 2015, 22:55

It means that even if the other player stops his drops and thereby the deployment the Chaos player can still bring in more minis that are wizards.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 22:59

Killerdou wrote:What's the point of summoning if you can just start the game with all of those models anyways?

edit:
Don't say outnumber rules, because if you're outnumbered by deamons of chaos there is no rule that'll fix that:P


I will say outnumbered.. since you know.. it gives very easy options to win. Or the enemy must limit his deployment to the like.. 10 models you start with.

I start with 10 chaos wizards (or more if enemy keeps deploying) but at least you can be sure you will never outnumber the enemy. and you will be pretty sure that a turn later you can have an army that can destroy them or at least complete an assasination mission quickly.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 07 Jul 2015, 00:05

Hey Aezeal, thank you for justifying the title of this thread haha!
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Akorndr2 » 07 Jul 2015, 02:03

Good news gw has answered some questions and will be do a tournament pack and futher releases
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Billthesurly » 07 Jul 2015, 02:16

As I understand from talking to the local shop owner who has been in contact with GW about this game for some time now - AoS is supposed to have been deliberately designed to balk tournament play. Apparently they felt like WFB had been taken over by people who formalized the game for tournament play to the point that casual gamers were being shoved out of it. I have no idea as to the truth of this but that's what I've been told. In short, it has no point system because you aren't supposed to play tournaments with it. Go figure.
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Tidings » 07 Jul 2015, 07:46

Honestly, from a business perspective, I see where they are coming from. I imagine there will be 8th ed tournies unless something changes. But the simpler game is smart. I've already got a few people back into the game specifically because it's smaller scale and faster than before.

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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 07 Jul 2015, 08:03

Billthesurly wrote:As I understand from talking to the local shop owner who has been in contact with GW about this game for some time now - AoS is supposed to have been deliberately designed to balk tournament play. Apparently they felt like WFB had been taken over by people who formalized the game for tournament play to the point that casual gamers were being shoved out of it. I have no idea as to the truth of this but that's what I've been told. In short, it has no point system because you aren't supposed to play tournaments with it. Go figure.


I'm pretty sure most casual players will want some balance too though it just makes for a more exciting game but I guess GW will notice that sooner or later.

I'm trying to get a game for thursday.. and I'll start with dropping Durthu and Sisters on dragon because I like to play with them (If you liked the treeman you should look at Durthu's rules avalon) and because they are very shooty both and I like shooty :D. If the opponent drops some serious stuff I'll use orion too he really needs to be on the table after 15 years. If the opponent doesn't drop much tough stuff I'll skip Orion and go wardancer and waywatchers. I've also not played with my great eagle (preferred warhawks in 8th) but now he seems nice to have. I'm gonna stick with mobility and shooting but that isn't very hard these days with woodelves since nearly everything is very mobile and most of our stuff can shoot too.

Wildriders are indeed not as strong anymore, avalon but I think that gladeriders now are much better. With 2 shots and 2 wounds and 3 melee attacks they seem very respectable.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 07 Jul 2015, 08:12

They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn’t based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.


Well that would be nice :D. I think it will be hard to balance those chaos daemons though :D, their summoning is really insane even with out the loopholes in my idea... just using the Blue Scribes as intended seems pretty nasty, or just summonign a herald on juggernauth on a 5+. Our summoning of 2d6 dryads on a 7+ doesn't really compare :D.
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Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby thunderbow » 07 Jul 2015, 08:50

Turtle shelled orcs with female cult leaders, anyone?
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