"Age of Sigmar" speculations

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Archeos
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Archeos »

SigMARINES chapters :D
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Hyarion »

So now we have 40k and 40f? By the time August gets here we'll have stories about how some groups of Stormcast Eternals have begun to whisper against Sigmar, led by their Primecast, Horuss....

In the grim darkness of the future, there is only 40k. :lol:

You heard it here first.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Jossebuschman »

You are not the first one to suggest this, but I'm very afraid you are right, at least avout the fact that it will all end up happening in the 40k universe.

The crappy latinish names are a good example of this, I had not seen it before in fantast, but 40k is full of it.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by frogboy »

Archeos wrote:SigMARINES chapters :D
CI57NFAUMAAL7ZI.jpg
CI5-k6CVEAAy5i4.jpg

Oh dear <.<

I'm thinking the Sig-Meh-Reens will be an elite army, I mean Chaos out number them so they must be some kind of super humans or Demi-gods.

Haven't really read any of the leaked scans so probably just stating the obvious.

I'm probably going to build an army of monsters, them ogres look pretty sweet on the round bases. If anything at least we will see some cool armys and collections of minatures
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Samoht »

I've been a collector of Games Workshop products since the 80's and there was a time at which their customer service was unmatched, so much so that many said that those levels of customer service was why they lost so much profit.

However there was a point at which they seemed to internally make a very deliberate about turn on that and since then they seem to have developed possibly one of the worst levels of customer communication that I am aware of. I'm not saying they now have terrible customer service, but what they have had for more than a decade now is terrible marketing and communication.

Their advertising and building hype is embarrassingly bad in this age of social media and online video marketing opportunities. Whilst at the same time they seem to have absolutely no interest in getting feedback about where and how to take their ranges.

They seem to be far more concerned with trying to prevent anyone else making compatible products, at the expense of actually promoting their own and working with the benefits copying brings.

Their marketing department seems to be headed by shy, paranoid accountants.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Jossebuschman »

I totally agree, age of sigmar seems to have been built primarily so they can copyright everything.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

frogboy wrote:
Archeos wrote:SigMARINES chapters :D
CI57NFAUMAAL7ZI.jpg
CI5-k6CVEAAy5i4.jpg

Oh dear <.<

I'm thinking the Sig-Meh-Reens will be an elite army, I mean Chaos out number them so they must be some kind of super humans or Demi-gods.

Haven't really read any of the leaked scans so probably just stating the obvious.

I'm probably going to build an army of monsters, them ogres look pretty sweet on the round bases. If anything at least we will see some cool armys and collections of minatures
Yes they are not humans, they are stormcast eternals from Azyrheim in the realm of Azyr.
hutobega wrote:From what I see besides space marines models is that everyone else is just putting what they have on round bases. It seems ridiculous but at least what we have no could and probably will be used in the new games.I think I can adapt to something like that. but still hoard armies (like undead) which are supposedly still going to be active will be a real pain to deal with moving wise haha Elves on the other hand (wood elf specifically) will probably have a great time in this edition and probably will have lots of movement characteristics hmmmm could be fun but its still just fantasy marine game. lol
I think horde armies will be less horde, I think the differences between the ranked troops will be less and the power levels will be more divers in the upper regions between monsters and strong lords etc. I still wonder about how the figure to balance army composition without points though.

https://guerrillaminiaturegames.wordpre ... -thoughts/

I'm reading this now it's a summary of the rules as known so far.. maybe I'll learn more there.

So I guess the main thing is being outnumbered more than 30% or not... but if you deploy only elite units... how could weaker units win.. if they place more of them then the elite even gets a sudden death option.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by GeoffDiGeoff »

New link up for a peek at some scenery: http://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/mont ... 835983.jpg
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Hyarion »

Aezeal, I think you need to re-conceptualize your ideas about what makes a unit weaker in Age of Sigmar.

In WHFB, there were a number of factors going into what made units "strong" or "weak", most of which are being eliminated or reformulated into something completely different. When we factor in the fact that we've only seen the contents of the intro box which has historically been a pretty poor set of pre-selected models, I think we've been presented with a sample of information that is not nearly as complete as we think it is.

I think army lists are going to play a much bigger role than currently thought and will take on an almost 40k-like significance in terms of importance of preparation. I don't know how your local metagame is, but while semi-closed lists are the norm here, I think fully open lists will be the norm across the AoS landscape in short order. Especially if there are no magic item lists to choose from. Also, I would be not at all surprised to see some units (especially some Aelf ;) units) which play like Warmachine's Retribution of Scyrah faction where you want to be playing for a sudden death assassination game.
"Oh, you intended to deploy 4x 30 skeletons? But now you don't because you see I brought a few assassins? Too bad, deploy all of them."
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

Wether I play 8th or AoS... GW's prices are too high for me to even consider buying their scenery. I'd not buy it at 50% of their current prices.

Hyarion: I HAVE thought about how these rules would affect army building and that is where the problem comes from. I think army building was very important in WFB. But in the new rules (and the pages we have should be all the rules if it really stays a 4 page rulebook) there are no point values. Each places one after the other a unit. If on stops the other can go on as long as he/she wants. The only other thing mentioned is that with more than 30% higher MODELS the lower count gets the sudden death option.

If those remain the only 2 important things in list building then it's obvious that the more strenght you have in a model the better it is (basicly your example says that too I think: elves with stronger stats will always be a better choice than simple skeletons). I'm not basing this on the models in the box but on the rules that are available (and it's 4 pages so that should be all of them). How do you not see this as favoring the strongest single models?

If I put 10 bloodthirsters on the table and then stop deploying... if you place 20 glade guard the BT's would still be the ones with the option of sudden death... and I think you'd agree they'd still have a way stronger army. It's a bit overdoing it.. but basicly if every model I place is stronger you always have the advantage one way or another: either the other guy places way more or he keeps a similar number and just has a weaker army.

I'm pretty sure this obvious "loophole" can't have gotten past people creating the game (unlike some I do not actually think GW employs stupid people) so I wonder how it is adressed since I've not read anything about it in the rules. I'm pretty sure it will not be a problem.. I just wonder HOW it will not be a problem.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Hyarion »

Aezeal wrote:(basicly your example says that too I think: elves with stronger stats will always be a better choice than simple skeletons).
If you think that's what I'm saying then you are not understanding me correctly. My apologies for the miscommunication.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Polycotton »

My word. Those Age of Smegma Space Marines make me shake my head in disbelief. What is the thought process from Games Workshop here? Hmm, Space Marines sell like hotcakes, why don't we create fantasy Space Marines? Problem solved!
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

Hyarion wrote:
Aezeal wrote:(basicly your example says that too I think: elves with stronger stats will always be a better choice than simple skeletons).
If you think that's what I'm saying then you are not understanding me correctly. My apologies for the miscommunication.
Hmm then I am not getting it indeed, I still think with the current rules I see it is true though.

I guess we currently interpret the changing rules differently so:
How do you not see this as favoring the strongest single models?
Polycotton wrote:My word. Those Age of Smegma Space Marines make me shake my head in disbelief. What is the thought process from Games Workshop here? Hmm, Space Marines sell like hotcakes, why don't we create fantasy Space Marines? Problem solved!
I think it's rather odd everyone refers to them as spacemarines. I mean.. I get the reference to the 40K game and I see the similarities but when used so slanderous like this I need to point out that: realisticly these are knightly figures fitting in a high fantasy game: full armor, warhammers, shields. I've shown them to my son (6)and asked it they where knights or astronauts.. the verdict was clear: these are Knights. All the slander won't make them less fitting in a fantasy setting.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

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Aezeal wrote:
I think it's rather odd everyone refers to them as spacemarines. I mean.. I get the reference to the 40K game and I see the similarities but when used so slanderous like this I need to point out that: realisticly these are knightly figures fitting in a high fantasy game: full armor, warhammers, shields. I've shown them to my son (6)and asked it they where knights or astronauts.. the verdict was clear: these are Knights. All the slander won't make them less fitting in a fantasy setting.
Alright now show him an space marine that doesn't have his helmet lenses too bright and do the same question see what happens
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by thunderbow »

The biggest problem I have with these, Aezezal, is their pristine morality and an unfailing sense of righteousness, which is another eye-gouging similarity with the marines, accentuated even more in AoS. Marines at least leave you with a little space to criticise their actions, dogma etc. whereas those "stormcast eternals" have the words "we're the incarnation of all that is good and right" painted all over them. AND on top of that, they are UBER powerful, so that the frustrated children who play with them should feel great while kicing ass on the tabletop because they're the good guys and all that they do is good by default. IMHO, the world of Warhammer was great because of its moral greyness, there was no good as such, only stories told from different perspectives.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Baardah »

All the new models looks awful IMO. Well, they are certainly sculpted well and I bet they go together like a dream and all, but the overall look of them is total bollocks.
If anyone thought the storm fiends and the dwarven gyro copter looked to "40K"...well these really takes it away. Can't wait to see the eldar.... I mean elves, when they come out. Holy cheese balls this is so freakin disappointing. I mean, I wasn't happy at all with the end of the world and all, but I always thought that at least GW is going to release some good models. And now this..... I fear this is the end for my hobby. I'll probably paint what I got, but that's it.
AoS is just too horrendous for me to get over....
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

Well baardah, I'm totally with you on the aesthetics. They indicate that the theme has become less of a 'high fantasy' and more of a childish one. The old setting was full of fun limitations such as: xenophobia, economics, geography, biology, sociology, and technology. These variables took form in model design and character development.

High Elves, for example, are racial elitists with competitive trading due to the fact that they lived on a centrally located island. They have a 'top-down' society, with kings and princes dictating tax-rates (as well as almost everything else). As such, High Elf soldiers have high quality training and equipment. They also live for hundreds of years, and reproduce slowly, so overall troop count is low, but expert level.

Wood Elves, however, are land locked within an impossibly large forest, with a near impassible mountain range to our east. Our only trading is among ourselves and the Brettonians. The Brets trade with the empire, but the Brets are a bunch of starving peasants that consume profits before they can reinvest them. Their isn't much wealth to be gained by using the Brets as middle-men. That being said, Wood-Elves have a 'bottom-up' economy, because they are 'conservationists' with a savings based monetary policy. We trade value for value, based on whatever the individual elf's involved have need of and can agree to. Our king is either frozen, or hunting, so he has no interest in taxing his people. When wood elves are drafted to military service, it's up to each individual elf to equip themselves, something they are easily able to do. This indicates to me that the high elf nobility is incredibly wealthy, but that the wood-elf citizenry is, on average, much better off then the high elf citizenry.

The end result is high elves carry high quality armor, shields, and weapons as a standard, issued by the High king. Wood Elves carry less, but what they do carry is of greater quality then what the high elves have.

This comparison works in a high fantasy setting, and the differences between the two lead to believably different styles of play. When the fantasy abandons the true to life limitations in exchange for extra magic, or trans-realm transportation, the character and flavor of the setting becomes too alien to possibly feel any empathy for it. When Athel Lorin was burned down, it sucked...

If the 'realm of life' gets destroyed, nobody can actually care, because the concept of a 'realm of life' is abstract and stupid.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

Lowb wrote:
Aezeal wrote:
I think it's rather odd everyone refers to them as spacemarines. I mean.. I get the reference to the 40K game and I see the similarities but when used so slanderous like this I need to point out that: realisticly these are knightly figures fitting in a high fantasy game: full armor, warhammers, shields. I've shown them to my son (6)and asked it they where knights or astronauts.. the verdict was clear: these are Knights. All the slander won't make them less fitting in a fantasy setting.
Alright now show him an space marine that doesn't have his helmet lenses too bright and do the same question see what happens
He'll say it's a knight too probably... which still means the new models fit in a high fantasy setting, so nothign wrong with them

Also: for all empire/brettonia whiners (probably not so much in here) that "want to play with realistic midevil humans" (yeah play a fantasy game for that ?) the order page of the new AoS part of the GW site features on the first page: empire battalion, brettonia battallion... so I don't see the problem.

Nicholas I think those are pretty bold statements without access to a bit more lore. I think I personally would feel a bit worse about a whole realm being destroyed compared to a single forest.. doesn't seem you need much empathy or imagination for that.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

Nicholas Nitro wrote:new rules are out
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources ... ves-en.pdf
Thx for the link.. how do you find it I'd like them all.. but I can find them yet.

I do like the kept al lot of characteristic stuff for the characters..
The BSB ability seems nice: 18" 4+ wardsave for all wanderers (which after a quick look are about all wood elves).. I wonder if all BSB are that strong.
Glade lord has HoDA
Sister still have an insane heal ability
EG ahve spearstaves again: I just got my first 20-25 EG in that army I bought via asrai.org.. all the good looking spearstave guys.

looking not so good
Asrai longbows: 20 inch range... something must be wrong.. that is less than 2 movement phases for a lot of guys.
We hardly have rend, usually 0 or -1.. I do hope there are no 2+ save in the game or at least not too much or that might be annoying.

I've obviously not read all the rules and I must be missing something: anyone who knows plz fill me in. You have options for hornblowers and standard bearers.. why would you ever NOT take those?
Last edited by Aezeal on 04 Jul 2015, 01:19, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by sirkently »

Thx for the link.. how do you find it I'd like them all.. but I can find them yet.
Replace wood-elves in the link with other race names. I know lizardmen works.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

thunderbow wrote:The biggest problem I have with these, Aezezal, is their pristine morality and an unfailing sense of righteousness, which is another eye-gouging similarity with the marines, accentuated even more in AoS. Marines at least leave you with a little space to criticise their actions, dogma etc. whereas those "stormcast eternals" have the words "we're the incarnation of all that is good and right" painted all over them. AND on top of that, they are UBER powerful, so that the frustrated children who play with them should feel great while kicing ass on the tabletop because they're the good guys and all that they do is good by default. IMHO, the world of Warhammer was great because of its moral greyness, there was no good as such, only stories told from different perspectives.
Well they are from heavens realm.. I'm pretty sure other realms have their own defenders with their own views about that is good and what is not. High elves found themselves pretty good too.. not to mention if these guys are are as ruthless in their cuase for their "greater good" as the space marines it's still a pretty grey area.. they won't see it as such ofc... but it still is. You could be right, but I you could very well be wrong too. I'm not sure they are uberpowerfull either.. the stats I'm looking at from the WE are pretty similar to theirs.

back to the rules:
I still don't know why I would not just bring a lot of hero models and play with a small army. I must be missing something but I don't know what.
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Aezeal »

Actually I'm seeing a lot of nice stuff in our WE book. Sure the basic rules are WAY simpler.. but now Durthu can summon forest which in turn give other forestspirits (sylvaneths now) bonus stuff. There are new layers of complexity for other things that have been lost.
Last week I was pretty sceptical about the dumbing down of the rules (becuase.. lore hardly matters to me) and thought I'd probably go back to 8th after trying this. Now I'm more optimistic... I think there is a > 50% chance I'll be playin AOS :D.

PS:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/age ... ompendiums

This is the link you need.

I still think the rules are not very clear though. The glade lord has 3 melee weapons mentioned on the scroll. The rules say you can divide your attacks over those weapons as you like.. but his tekst seems to imply you have either a bow and a weak sword OR the 2 handed big sword OR a spear and weak sword.

I also think full forest spirit armies might be fun to try again.. last army book it was clear they where subpar.. when I'm lookign at their ablities etc they seems viable to me (of course.. my knowledge of AoS rules fits in a spoon, a small one so that isn't saying much but still).

Also:

The following do not have warscrolls. Instead, use the substitute warscrolls listed below.
Unit Warscroll
Ariel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Spellweaver
Deepwood Scouts. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Glade Guard
Drycha. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Branchwraith
Glade Captain. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Glade Lord
Sisters of Twilight on Gwindalor . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Glade Lord on Great Eagle with Bow of Loren
Spellsinger. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Spellweaver
Spellweaver on Unicorn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Spellweaver on Purebred Steed
Spellweaver on Great Eagle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Glade Lord on Great Eagle
Waystalker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Waywatcher Lord
Wood Elf Chariot. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tiranoc Chariot
(see the High Elves Compendium)

Lol they actually have Ariel and a woodelf chariot in there :D, might be fun to use my old Ariel model again :D
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by frogboy »

So wait, an elf could be fighting a snotling or a bloodthirster and the to hit rolls and to wound rolls are exactly the same?

Magic looks boring :(

Unicorns have been removed, WTF!
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Re: "Age of Sigmar" speculations

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

I like the new magic, no more 'winds of death' or 'dwellers below' to completely wipe my army off the board in one move.
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