"Age of Sigmar" speculations

[Cernunnos]

Well to be honest we don't actually know the game of wfb is alive or dead. If AoS is a wholly new game and is taking over from wfb, then 8th ed I'd the last edition and Wfb is then"dead" for all intents and purposes. On the other hand AoS could be like a new starter box, ala IoB and all the previous started boxes; or a bit of a stand alone game. Until more info is released Wfb is a schrodingers cat.

[frogboy]

Well

1st: Warhammer isn't dead. There is a new edition coming with brand new fluff.. the fact you dislike they discarded the old one doesn't mean the new one is dead nor does it mean the game is dead.

2nd: Since there is Warhammer there is no reason this site to close untill we know more about what will happen.

maybe Naggie will need to update the colors when we get a new elven faction though..

I'm hoping the official colors for the new faction will be purple and yellow with golden trim, maybe Naggie can change the site to those colors too.

1) If there is going to be "new fluff" then it will be a new game

2) If its no longer called Warhammer Fantasy then it will be a new game

3) If either of these things happen it means the game is dead, it will be a new game. The Army books have all gone and so has the Rule book. You may as well be playing kings of war or any of the other games out there if that happens.

4) Naggie makes decisions about the site without influence from lesser mortals like youself

[Ramesesis]

Well, it is not Warhammer. It is Age of Sigmar. Much of the latest rumours say reboot, new system, inspired by 40K.

If it was anything less dramatic they would press so hard on the fact that you can still use your minis.That alone indicate the level of change that is coming. Had it been a normal update they would go on with this removal of books and putting out all this Age of Sigmar promo. They want to show a clear break to get 40K:ers on the train. So Warhammer Fantasy is dead, stop beating that horse.

It is possible that Age of Sigmar will turn out decent enough but I am wondering if I can afford a new system. The increase in rulebook and starterbox prices meant that I had to wait buying a 40K rulebook.

So I will roll my thumbs and remain a healthy sceptic. If the WHFB community survives around the older editions I am on. There are cheaper rules alternatives we can add our fluff on. The Warhammer Historical community is still there, I think, but are switching over to other game systems. I honestly cannot see why you are so upset about people considering not giving Age of Sigmar a go, Aezeal. If we really liked the old setting and really rather hang on to it rather than follow in the mad race, why not let us?
And if Age of Sigmar flops, so what? You still got your minis and rulebooks. GW will survive and could focus all energy on 40K. Others will step into the fantasy beachvolleyboll, companies focused on games, not miniatures. Cause there will be a market there and you can bet others will move in trying to capitalize on it. Compa ies less concerned with protecting special IP and who appreciate the classical fantasy look.

[Aezeal]

Well

1st: Warhammer isn't dead. There is a new edition coming with brand new fluff.. the fact you dislike they discarded the old one doesn't mean the new one is dead nor does it mean the game is dead.

2nd: Since there is Warhammer there is no reason this site to close untill we know more about what will happen.

maybe Naggie will need to update the colors when we get a new elven faction though..

I'm hoping the official colors for the new faction will be purple and yellow with golden trim, maybe Naggie can change the site to those colors too.

1) If there is going to be "new fluff" then it will be a new game

2) If its no longer called Warhammer Fantasy then it will be a new game

3) If either of these things happen it means the game is dead, it will be a new game. The Army books have all gone and so has the Rule book. You may as well be playing kings of war or any of the other games out there if that happens.

4) Naggie makes decisions about the site without influence from lesser mortals like youself

Well apart from point 4 you are obviously incorrect.

[frogboy]

Obviously ??

[Ramesesis]

Yes, what is obviously wrong?

GW is introducing a NEW system with NEW background. That means Warhammer Fantasy is discontinued. Sure, Age of Sigmar builds upon the old, but it is a new system as far as we can see from the rumours.
So Warhammer Fantasy and the old world is dead. Whatever comes will be different, related yes, but different. Our present minis may be used in one way or the other in the new system but you will have to adapt to new background and and rules. The minis are mere chips, really. They are given certain values but they can be changed.

The minis are really not important when it comes to saying if it is a new game or not. That is defined by rules and background. If they are different it is a different game.

Also, GW is clearly promotion the image of change, of something new and different. They are not saying this is similar to what passed. All they say in that regard is that we can use our old minis.

[Cernunnos]

G.w has always changed it's fluff & the old world as and when it suits them, or they're adding new units into stories, the rules have evolved and changed ever since they brought out 2nd ed. Heck I have Sea elves, where are the rules for this army today? Goblin hewer too. Remember before Archaon came on the scene?

[Aezeal]

If I release a game exactly like monopoly except with different streets it still is the same game, if I release a game with nearly the same rules as Catan but place it in some sort of fantasy setting it's still the same game.. and I'm pretty sure some lawyers will be quick to point that out and take all the cash I've made with the game. The rules of 9th will most probably and according to most rumours be very similar with only a few updates, the lore is the same story but continued. Have you even seen the title of this topic: 9th edition.. that kind of implies a lot all own it own.. so yes froggie: obviously. It's also pretty clear that playing 9th or playing KoW isn't the same at all.

[frogboy]

Ok Asseal continue trolling and you will be finished just the same as this game

I wonder if in the future people will be like "hey let's play warhammer fantasy" or will the say "let's have a game of age of sigma"

[Hyarion]

I was going to write something else here, until an older/wiser/more amphibian head prevailed on me why I shouldn't.

Aezeal, go read The Artificial Life Route to Artificial Intelligence: Building Embodied, Situated Agents by a guy named Rodney Brooks. It is a bit technical in nature, but the applications to this discussion are many and profound. Hopefully it will go a long way to helping you understand where we are coming from.

[Cernunnos]

If I release a game exactly like monopoly except with different streets it still is the same game, if I release a game with nearly the same rules as Catan but place it in some sort of fantasy setting it's still the same game.. and I'm pretty sure some lawyers will be quick to point that out and take all the cash I've made with the game. The rules of 9th will most probably and according to most rumours be very similar with only a few updates, the lore is the same story but continued. Have you even seen the title of this topic: 9th edition.. that kind of implies a lot all own it own.. so yes froggie: obviously. It's also pretty clear that playing 9th or playing KoW isn't the same at all.

Actually if you own the rights to any game, you can change the rules how ever insignificant the changes and call it so.wthing else entirely. As for knowing what the new rule set is, unless you work in the studio or are privy to inside information, you don't know what the new rules are like. The title of this is 9th ed, buy only if warhammer continues. If it is dead and age of Sigmar is an entirely new game, then that is AoS version 1. Not 9th ed no matter how close the rule set is.

[Ramesesis]

It is also called 9th ed because when started people assumed it would be continuation. But GW promote it as Age of Sigmar and if they say it is a different game, it is a different game.

I think the problem is this. Aezeal is really worried that Warhammer Fantasy will end. He do not want it to end. It needs to sell better. Now he hear us talking about how we feel reluctant to take the step into Age of Sigmar and he then start fearing this will spread among the old guard. Because if people do not buy and AoS is no hit, he will have no one to play with because he play at a store. So he start banging on about how we should be grateful and loyal to GW.
But since the fluff I care about is the fluff of the Old setting, I can stay it out with my friends and play the game we know, or try the mean and lean Kings of War.

[Hyarion]

Age of Sigmar is a new Fantasy system that will support all GW
Fantasy models currently sold by GW.

It will continue the narrative where the End Times Books left off.

It is not Warhammer 9th Edition.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2015/06/dark ... d-age.html

All rumors taken with salt, but this does seem to continue the trend we've seen with past rumors.

I, for one, welcome our new Age of Sigmar overlords.

[Ramesesis]

Are, we have but to welcome them.

What it means remains to be seen. But hopefully I can use the unassembled Empire minis for this. And maybe the unassembled elves.

I will not sully my old armies. For them it will always be 8th ed or maybe Kings of War

[Aezeal]

Ok Asseal continue trolling and you will be finished just the same as this game

I wonder if in the future people will be like "hey let's play warhammer fantasy" or will the say "let's have a game of age of sigma"

Good arguments... It's not trolling when I'm just stating the obvious: I'm willing to bet most on this forum think of 9th as warhammer/fantasy and so does GW.
BTW: as stated by others I think Sigmar might be a sort of skirmish game with minimal rules for starters not the "real" 9th edition which is more a continuation of 8th. Some rumors have been saying first the "introduction" game (with only a few pages of rules according to some) and later in the year ... something else which would be 9th edition. IMHO most of those rumors are not really leaks but intentionally leaked by GW.. which is why they keep being so vague.

I think the problem is this. Aezeal is really worried that Warhammer Fantasy will end. He do not want it to end. It needs to sell better. Now he hear us talking about how we feel reluctant to take the step into Age of Sigmar and he then start fearing this will spread among the old guard. Because if people do not buy and AoS is no hit, he will have no one to play with because he play at a store. So he start banging on about how we should be grateful and loyal to GW.

While you present it in a rather overly dramatic way there is a certain core of truth in this. But it is more the combination of not even knowing the new game yet with this that is what baffles me. You have played this game for a long time and I assume you enjoyed it. Now before you even know it you already throw it away, I just do not get it. I'd not find it odd if someone didn't buy the new rules or models after it comes out.. (I'm probably gonna proxy with everything I have I will be buying the rules myself though) but I cannot get into the frame of mind that doesn't even want to try 9th - before either ditching warhammer/GW as a whole or going back to 8th. If someone would decide they didn't like it after a few games you'd not hear me say anything except that I do like it (I presume at least). So back to the core of truth I started with: I would prefer the game to have more players and not less.. and I cannot understand your reasons for already giving up on 9th.

[Ramesesis]

Because it is not 9th ed but Age of Sigmar! GW does not even fall it 9th ed. It is a new game, Age of Sigmar

[Ramesesis]

I picked this up on Warhammer-Empire. Originally posten on Dakka-Dakka. Pinch of salt and all that but if do fit in with other rumours, such as the description of the world form a novel. We Empire player are... sad. Because our look seem to be gone as the tech is now late roman/early medieval

I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.

- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting

Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book

Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules


Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)

there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)

On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.

humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!

The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals

The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..

Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.

Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.

The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.

Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.

Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.

Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.

Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.

undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.

Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.


- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.

Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.


Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.

Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking

Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.

Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.

Originally posted on http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 43158.page
[/quote]

[Cernunnos]

-The new system will have both Skirmish and large battle with ranked troops versions. 

-Skirmish can use round or square. Large version is square. 

-The round 32mm bases in the space marine boxes were originally made for WH:AoS, but the 40k studio guys liked the look and they fit space marines better. 

-AOS box will have both round and square bases in the box.

This. Also from Dakka Dakka.

[Ramesesis]

Good to know but it makes NO sense to have a system with 2 different forms of bases. Two different base types in the same system!

That is infact more unbelieveable and idiotic since the only reason would be to force people to buy more minis to be able to play both versions. And that is rude.

[Mithriella]

That is infact more unbelieveable and idiotic since the only reason would be to force people to buy more minis to be able to play both versions. And that is rude.

It is GW.. What could you expect from a company who mostly thinking on getting more money out of people

[Aezeal]

Because it is not 9th ed but Age of Sigmar! GW does not even fall it 9th ed. It is a new game, Age of Sigmar

Well I'm probably not going to play age of sigmar either if that is the starter game.. but I try toplay whatever the real 9th edition will be. These latest rumors are kinda different than most posted before.. but I think I like it. Araloth and the dreamchild: my elves can do something with that.

[Ramesesis]

Also, in regards to rankad troops, remember Lord of the Rings and War of the Rings?

If they use ranked minis on square bases for the ranked larger battles, why remove the movement trays from sale? Uhh

Now, one thing I heard a few years ago was that GW started using LOTR as a test be for a new fantasy system. And while I have not played it in years LOTR was a damn fine skirmish game that could q be played with few or many minis but that started to get slow and clumsy about 50 or so but it did scale well otherwise. It is just that it is a limitation as to how fast you can move individual warriors.

Also, the stats they have for the troops sound very familiar and it also feels as if there is a Might and Fate point system.

Now, in order to allow for larger battles they created War of the Ring. Here you move units but not as we understand it but more like how almost all historical ranked up games does it. There you have square bases for rankad troops BUT the bases are large and consists of a number of minis stuck on them, representing a unit. The base is the unit with a set amount of hit points or similar. So say a base with two ranks of 8 minis can represent a roman Centuria of 80 troops, depending on scale.

WotR was similar, but you used the same minis as for your skirmish games. They used two sets of rectangular bases representing army units and then a number of infantry or cavalry was placed there to show what typ of company it was. As far as I remember the minis worked like hit point counter but the unit remained the same size until the last mini was removed. Then the unit was broken and fled.

Pusing back was a common thing too...

So, yes, it could be a good new gamesystem, but it is NOT Warhammer Fantasy. And if you read and understand just how different the humans are to the present Empire, you will reAlice why we Empire players are not happy. Because there is a huge difference between what we see here and what was the high renaissance style Empire that got it its strength from Faith, Steel and Gunpowder. Now gunpowder is rare <b>[censored]</b> you get from dwarfs.

However, I see a use for my Black tre wood elves with spears and round shields and for my 20 odd late roman infantry. Screw GW, aint gonna buy their ugly overblown World or Warcraftstyle designs.

[Ramesesis]

Aezeal, there will not be any 9th ed. Stop hoping for it. If it comes and it all takes place in a proper universe, you can be happy then.
Read what I wrote a boven about LotR and WotR. I have one source who is not a rumourmonger but a lower of Warhammer and whose main fear was that prices would make his friends stop playing not being able to afford.
He was pretty loaded but also generous and knew I was sadly lacking in means so, he gifted me Empire material he did not need and without them, my Empire army would not be.
He did talk with about some GW folks he had meet partially in buisness and had learned what I wrote above, that GW used LOTR and WotR as testbeds for an eventual new style of fantasy game that lay years ahead in time. We assumed it could mean a new rule system for how Warhammer Fantasy was played and speculated about how they would deal with Empire artillery and such.

Now, there has also been information talking about the Empire being too historical i look so GW cannot IP them. We who play Empire did However mostly choose it because it was so historical looking and awesome, being just a bunch of historical Landsknechts thrown in to hold their own in a terrible fantasy world and doing so through human cunning, gunpowder and discipline. Our heroes were far less fancy than the other races, even generals having hero stats save for better leadership and one extra wound. But otherwise he was a captain. Humans did not get so much better.

But that was what we liked. We loved the in your face you superbeings attitude. How our heroes were really more for boosting our troops and making them stronger and not killing machines in their own right. From what has come forth, it do seem as if what we got know is more like dark barbarians bashing other dark age barbarians and the main difference being which God boost your heroes while the troops work like fodder.

Also, if Age of Sigmar is the skirmish game it would be stupid to make the large battle game too different. What GW will want is for people to get into the flowing and learn to know the new system before they present Age of Sigmars version of War of the Rings. Could be called Wars of Sigmar, who knows?
But that will most likely be a system based upon Age of Sigmar, just as WotR was based upon LotR. Not a newer version of the WHFB rules.
Remember 6th ed that also had Warhammer skirmish which was something of a Mordheim lite system? And that shared the statline with normal WHFB for example. GW is just doing it the correct way around now. Introducing the game in a smaller version first and then scaling up as people have gathered some minis.

[Cosmos]

Have you guys seen this : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 43158.page

Page 53 i believe

[T.D.]

This discussion reminds me of Schrodinger's cat