"Age of Sigmar" speculations

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Aezeal
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Aezeal »

I'm wondering: I've heard rumors that you could play with your old armies but they'd not be supported, no new models.. but if the old books are invalid then how would that work?
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Mithriella »

Aezeal wrote:I'm wondering: I've heard rumors that you could play with your old armies but they'd not be supported, no new models.. but if the old books are invalid then how would that work?
I was thinking the same now when all the army books are remove from sale d 26 hmm
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Merlin Elf friend »

I can only surmise that their will be Elf Faction Archers, Spearmen, Fast Cavalry, Elves with Great Weapons, Scouts, Mages, Heroes Etc., no mention of "Forest Spirits" either way - no idea on those!

Expect new points values, probable base changes for Skirmishers and Characters, I was told that about 85% of 8th edition rules will survive; main changes likely to be centered around Characters, Detachment Units and Skirmishers; magic will move towards End of Times; but with some changes eg number of power dice will have a link to Total Army size eg 3D6 for 2-3K army.

The above is a guide line to what is coming NOT a direct quote from a new rule book.

This is as much as I could glean from my GW contact, The BIg difference as stated elsewhere is going to be the "Look and Feel" of the new models also the removal of more generic (non-GW) Elfs, Dwarfs, Goblins to protect GW IP.

Hope this is of some help, obviously exact details will have to wait until after "The Age of Sigmar" is relased, treat the above as a guide, a general trend if you like.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

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Merlin Elf friend wrote:I can only surmise that their will be Elf Faction Archers, Spearmen, Fast Cavalry, Elves with Great Weapons, Scouts, Mages, Heroes Etc., no mention of "Forest Spirits" either way - no idea on those!

Expect new points values, probable base changes for Skirmishers and Characters, I was told that about 85% of 8th edition rules will survive; main changes likely to be centered around Characters, Detachment Units and Skirmishers; magic will move towards End of Times; but with some changes eg number of power dice will have a link to Total Army size eg 3D6 for 2-3K army.

The above is a guide line to what is coming NOT a direct quote from a new rule book.

This is as much as I could glean from my GW contact, The BIg difference as stated elsewhere is going to be the "Look and Feel" of the new models also the removal of more generic (non-GW) Elfs, Dwarfs, Goblins to protect GW IP.

Hope this is of some help, obviously exact details will have to wait until after "The Age of Sigmar" is relased, treat the above as a guide, a general trend if you like.
Ow I really like more dice for bigger army.. now there is just not much sense in more than 4-8 magic levels with teh number of dice you have. Wild Riders and Sisters are pretty GW specific.. I hope they stay. I also hope they let hawks stay and don't go for the expensive and silly kits like Lothern Skybuggies.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Cernunnos »

http://natfka.blogspot.no/2015/06/uncov ... r.html?m=1

Just grabbed this from faeit212, makes for some interesting reading!!
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Aezeal »

Yup interesting.. I'm sure the new world will have a nice fluffy background too.. I've never feared that at all.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Cernunnos »

I still want my Wood Elves and night goblins to be viable :( :)
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Hyarion »

I have no idea if that is true or not. But if it is, I would be extremely embarrassed if I was Games Workshop to be printing that and have my name on it.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

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Why? What is the problem with it?
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Hyarion »

All quotes from http://natfka.blogspot.no/2015/06/uncov ... r.html?m=1 All of this is written from the perspective that (while embellished a bit to fit an adventure story instead of a BRB), that this fluff will more or less mesh together with the fluff undergirding the new reality of 9th Edition.
In the process the pure untouched currents of the warp are tainted with the personifications of the winds - the Incarnates.
The Warp. What we've been told for years is the residing place of the raw essence of chaos, that mutates and corrupts all it touches, now accepts a taint of mortal personality? And, presumably, some amount of time after the End Times in some amount of stability? I can't believe that.
This is the birth of eight new minor gods.
This one is strictly personal, and I'm aware that the 'minor' caveat was added; but I cannot accept as remotely believable that a god of any sort was created. Call them manifestations of chaos, daemons, something, but I cannot accept the use of the word 'god' (even with a small 'g' as opposed to 'G'od) in this case.
a reikguard quartermaster who was slain in the end times, but is reborn in Sigmarshall, the domain of Sigmar.
How convenient....
he has gathered a large party of heroes from many realms and realities in a quest for something
And convenient-er.....
I know for sure that there are several worlds and that the protagonist can travel from one to the other
Convenient-er-er. Too convenient.
incarnate fights against incarnate and all are cast out from the warp
If the incarnates are cast of the warp, then where do their realms continue to exist? Without their continuing presence, why would the Warp continue to have the imprint of their personalities? I can throw a rock into a stream and it will create new ripples for as long as it sits in the stream, then it will create eddies and ripples. But once you take the rock out of the stream, then shortly there after, the stream will revert to looking much like it did before the rock. While putting a dent in a dirt field with a rock will retain an impression, the impression we've been given of the Warp is significantly different.
The second half of the book is set on a world called Regalia...just in time to visit the crowning of emperor Karl Franz ....
Well that's terribly convenient. Did one of the incarnates create this world? And now people are being reborn here as well? I was under the impression that Karl Franz was the Incarnate of Heavens. So as an Incarnate he's already a new super-being especially now that he's in the Warp and creating a world.

In short, it's just all too convenient, it's too easy. There do not appear to be any constraints of what is possible anymore so thus, all things are possible, the only deciding line between what is written into the fluff and what isn't is the whim of some writer in Nottingham? We need a new world to fight over to introduce new magic rules for some scenarios? No problem. The existing fluff (until End Times), separate from the game rules, at least had constraints that could draw you in and let you feel like you had some fixed points of reference of how the world worked.
his(Sigmar) great work to eliminate the chaos once and for all has only started
Sigmar is smarter than Teclis, Malekith, Ariel, and Nagash? Or if he is he couldn't tell anybody? We see people getting visions and dreams all the time (their point of origin may be somewhat contested though) Sigmar couldn't reach out and touch someone? Valten was supposed to be Sigmar reborn, he never mentioned the fact that in a few years time some important stuff was going to go down? Karl Franz was supposed to be possessed by Sigmar for a time, he never thought to tell anybody? I call shenanigans.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Aezeal »

I''m not entirely sure your interpretation of the warp is correct though.. Sigmar was a god in the old world, he was able to give power.. so it could well be he was another god and has a real somewhere in the warp.. so not everything in the warp is impure. (which is why they say untainted winds of the warp).
It's just that chaos is in the warp too and has a more heavy connection with it.
Also there was mention of afterlifes.. mostly for chaos worshippers starting as the most minor deamons but the after life for sigmarites was somewhere.. apperantly that is now called sigmarhall, a somewhat (our world) norse interpretation of the afterlife I guess. It's not surprising heroes would reside there.
The fact those heroes there are able to reenter the worlds again is the biggest leap I see.
I don't think Valten was sigmar reborn... just gifted with a portion of his powers. Why would sigmar need to be reborn anyway, he's a god doing godly stuff.

I think you are a bit harsh on GW and the new lore. Most lores are very confenient in the end when concerning gods.. gods having a lot of power in the warp isn't even new for the lore though.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Ramesesis »

Why is it that GW is so damn dager to bang on about "you can still use your old models"?

So what? They are hea vill themed for crying out loud! It would be a violation of my creations to use them as something different.
For me, background is not something shallow you whip up in an afternoon. Some here say I am doing it wrong and that the background is just an excuse for rolling pikes of dice and play mind games with the opponents.
If I want to play mind games I go HEMA and cross swords with my friends. No amount or dice pretenting you swing swords can beat wielding a sword, or shooting a real longbow.

So what I want is a deep, rich and developed background that actually have constrains built in so everybody who creates also exist in the same context. An open-ended stuff like what may be what is coming feel more like an easier way to find excuses for X fighting Y. If all you really care about is playstyle and tactics then I am certain this will be enough. But I care about the background. It is the background, a deeply, old multilayered background that made WHFB interesting. Otherwise historical wargames are more appealing. And in a way that makes Mantics new rules more interesting. At least you know you get to maneuver units around instead of individuals.
But one will have to impose the old WHFB on it because Mantic cannot have the same depth in their background.

I remember an old quote from a senior officer of the Royal Navy. It goes something like this: It takes 10 years to build a new navy. It takes a 100 years to build a tradition.

GW had what was unique and that was a tradition. Now they believed the tradition was the problem. Fools. They screwed their main asset.

My two gaming friends are considering alternative rules systems for fantasy. I do not go and play games in a store. I will keep on with 40K but sadly he who was build ing a 40K daemons force pulled the breaks recently. He got five 15mm Tiger tanks on Ebay and now it is Flames of War. Good, gives me an excuse to get my collective of 15mm soviet painted, bad because now there may be no energy for my fledling 1000 point Imperial Guard army, painted by inspiration of the WWII red army.

See, I like the generic fantasy look. I am so tried of the constant strike to be different just so you can crump folk with IP and get a factural extra money. I like classical estetics. Sue me for being old-fashioned.

Now, I have some unassembled Empire and some elves too... Guess they will remain un assembled for a while. Maybe they will be enough for the new skirmish game set to replace what we loved. My old armies may end up in glass cabinets. My HE at least cause they were my last assembleded. Where they stand, Ulthuan will never fall.





In these days of fast food everything it seems I belong to a dying breed.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Mithriella »

Can only agree with you about it is the background story they does the WF even better :)
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

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Ramesesis wrote:Why is it that GW is so damn dager to bang on about "you can still use your old models"?

So what? They are hea vill themed for crying out loud! It would be a violation of my creations to use them as something different.
For me, background is not something shallow you whip up in an afternoon. Some here say I am doing it wrong and that the background is just an excuse for rolling pikes of dice and play mind games with the opponents.
If I want to play mind games I go HEMA and cross swords with my friends. No amount or dice pretenting you swing swords can beat wielding a sword, or shooting a real longbow.

So what I want is a deep, rich and developed background that actually have constrains built in so everybody who creates also exist in the same context. An open-ended stuff like what may be what is coming feel more like an easier way to find excuses for X fighting Y. If all you really care about is playstyle and tactics then I am certain this will be enough. But I care about the background. It is the background, a deeply, old multilayered background that made WHFB interesting. Otherwise historical wargames are more appealing. And in a way that makes Mantics new rules more interesting. At least you know you get to maneuver units around instead of individuals.
But one will have to impose the old WHFB on it because Mantic cannot have the same depth in their background.

I remember an old quote from a senior officer of the Royal Navy. It goes something like this: It takes 10 years to build a new navy. It takes a 100 years to build a tradition.

GW had what was unique and that was a tradition. Now they believed the tradition was the problem. Fools. They screwed their main asset.

My two gaming friends are considering alternative rules systems for fantasy. I do not go and play games in a store. I will keep on with 40K but sadly he who was build ing a 40K daemons force pulled the breaks recently. He got five 15mm Tiger tanks on Ebay and now it is Flames of War. Good, gives me an excuse to get my collective of 15mm soviet painted, bad because now there may be no energy for my fledling 1000 point Imperial Guard army, painted by inspiration of the WWII red army.

See, I like the generic fantasy look. I am so tried of the constant strike to be different just so you can crump folk with IP and get a factural extra money. I like classical estetics. Sue me for being old-fashioned.

Now, I have some unassembled Empire and some elves too... Guess they will remain un assembled for a while. Maybe they will be enough for the new skirmish game set to replace what we loved. My old armies may end up in glass cabinets. My HE at least cause they were my last assembleded. Where they stand, Ulthuan will never fall.





In these days of fast food everything it seems I belong to a dying breed.
The old world is still part of the background. Very fluff like it got destroyed when the clearly overwhelming forces of chaos and skaven won... it fits perfectly with the story. Chaos has been winning for year except when some deus ex machina suddenly put them back some way.... now the deus apperantly was a bit late so the world lost and we have to pick up the pieces.. but it all happened in the past of the new fluff anyway :D It's still background :D. How deep can a background be if there is even a completely destroyed world with full fluff in it :D
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by thunderbow »

Ramesesis wrote: See, I like the generic fantasy look. I am so tried of the constant strike to be different just so you can crump folk with IP and get a factural extra money. I like classical estetics. Sue me for being old-fashioned.
This. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Hyarion »

Ramesesis wrote:Why is it that GW is so damned eager to bang on about "you can still use your old models"?
Because if it became known that all of the huge armies that people had amassed were now just expensive piles of plastic, then GW would rightly fear that players would use their piles of plastic to go play Mantic or DBA or some other game. By so graciously allowing us to continue using our old models they ensure (or at least minimize the risk) that at least we won't jump ship until we've had a look at the new rules.

Then balance this out: The cost of buying and learning a new rulebook that uses familiar terms vs the cost of buying and learning a new rulebook using unfamiliar terms and (likely) rebasing your army or finding out that your units do not have the right numbers to rank up into common-sense sizes anymore?

Rammie, I understand your griefs regarding the fluff and I share them. For us, those concerns are an end goal that we strive for; to GW those concerns are an expendable means to a different end. And while they remain ends for us, to mistake the facts regarding GW's sharing of our concerns is to compound the error and accomplish nothing else but ensuring certain and greater despair.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Ramesesis »

Aezeal. No, the old world is not part of the background. Not at all. Only on the level of a players knowledge is there any knowledge. But that is not were it counts as I am sure you agree.
What we as players know is totally irrelevant to build ingen a background for a new army. The people populating the new world or worlds are totally unknown about anything that went on berore. At best that is pure mythological legend and not history. It cannot be used as base to develop a character cause it would be incredibly OP to have a character that survived the End Times.
Sure, a few elves may remember but how believeable would it be for all elven hosts to run around considering of folks who remembered anything or knows anything in greater detail.
"Hey, my leader is awesome. He survived the End Times!"
"Mine too!"
"Mine too!"
"Mine ass-kicken Archaon!"

This tendensy is similar to what infects the viking re-enactment. Too many jarls and almost no bondi.

Also, more focus on character... Just sucks.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Ramesesis »

I do not share any illusion about GW sharing my views. They do not care about their creations beyond making more money and coldly hoping we will be gullible to hand them more Cash.
To them, we are not hobbyists, we are barely customers anymore because customers tends to get treated with some respect.
No, GW are acting and thinking like vampire counts. We are but cattle to them.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Aezeal »

You are pretty ungrateful towards GW. Apperantly you've enjoyed their game a lot for a lonog while and when this game is by all account unviable to sustain for a company and they enact some changes there is not much understanding. How many new players have you introduced into the game the last year in your efforts to keep the game viable as it was?

I just count myself lucky I have enough imagination to think of a new background for my army even in a new world. At least I will be playing a game I like for a while longer as long as the costs of the products allow it in my budget.

It's always sad to see people leave the game.. probably means GW will have to cut more armies in the future.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by frogboy »

Aezeal come on! It's a discussion about End Times let's not ask for an argument eh!?
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Ramesesis »

If you want to change a corporate entity you can only do so by hurting their wallet. Grateful? Why should I be grateful towards a company who really only see me as a way of making money and who do not want to interact with me. How many have I dragged into the hobby? Well, I was pretenting close but GW:s antics of latest years have made them back out. Total secrecy build little trust and high prices take care of the rest.
I am also a divorced father of four. Many I people I know have limited economies. I would be a bad person if I tried to lure them into such an expensive pasttime. GW was willing to do everything, everything, save adjusting the price.

I owe GW nothing. Those who created Warhammer Fantasy are not there anymore.

But what say I will leave GW:s games? I will purchase some 40K now and then, for my Imperial Guard. See, them I can still tweak with and create regiments inspired by historical events, such as my WWII Red Army guards. And due to the huge size and background of the Guard I am still comfortably in the fluff zone of a fantastic old and deep background.
I can most likely swing up a shallow surface deep fluff for an army in Age of Sigmar, no doubt, but it cannot compare to the background that have evolved and gathering over 5-10 years of games, roleplays and internet campaigns. And countless of written stories for many of the characters going into their personal inner lives, lost loves, darkest moments and greatest triumphs.

If you can creates that amount of background and fluff filling up your computer in a few week, more power to you, Aezeal. Or maybe you simply do not share my view about what background and fluff means and its importance? If so, why force me to feel like you? Because you fear that another person will leave the fantasy part of GW and you do not want to because you feel you owe GW something.

Now, I understand that Fantasy was in a bad state, but here in Sweden it was infact doing rather well, better than 40K. And that is according to staff in GW Gothenburg.

I will keep on purchasing 40K and do what little I can to promote some of what I think GW do well in the only way they understand. With money.

They pulled a very ugly one on us Wood elf players. Our last book is barely a year old and I did not even get time to use it! No need for gratefulness. At least they were merciful towards the brets not giving them a book with even shorter life spann.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Ramesesis »

What is even more sad is that the death of WHFB means the death of asrai.org, Warhammer-Empire , Ulthuan.net and other webb sites that have been far more important to me in regards to the Warhammer hobby than GW.
This is were I have most or my Warhammer friends. Save a single person I have never played them on the field of battle but they have meant much more for the development of my hobby than my gaming buddies and GW. Much more. Now we will be set to fade away into obscurity. Who will really need a dedicated wood elf site now, or a high elf or Dark elf. Now that all elves will be one?

We can, hopefully, turn over to become dedicated to Warhammer: Total War, if and when they release an expansion with wood elves. But there will not be room on the net for all the elven oriented sites we see. If we want to survive we may have to do so by merging with Ulthuan.net for example.
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Cernunnos »

There's no reason why these sites will close. I would hate here & da warpath to close. Folk playing 8th will still come here, and people still using W.E's in general. Fear not laddie!!
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Re: Ninth Edition - End Times for real?

Post by Aezeal »

Well

1st: Warhammer isn't dead. There is a new edition coming with brand new fluff.. the fact you dislike they discarded the old one doesn't mean the new one is dead nor does it mean the game is dead.

2nd: Since there is Warhammer there is no reason this site to close untill we know more about what will happen.

maybe Naggie will need to update the colors when we get a new elven faction though..

I'm hoping the official colors for the new faction will be purple and yellow with golden trim, maybe Naggie can change the site to those colors too.
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