Khaine - where to start with building a list?

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Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Jerubaal » 19 Jan 2015, 23:44

I have agreed to have a game using the End Times rules, but although I have played against High Elves a number of times, I don't know their unit costs or rules well enough to build a list with much other than my trusty Wood Elves. I have read the Khaine rules

The main things I'd like to use from HE are the Frostheart Phoenix, the Banner of the World Dragon (if that is even allowed), Dragon Mage and maybe the bolt throwers.

Out of the special characters, Alarielle Incarnate of Life is affordable, but Malekith on a dragon would be a fun surprise, though leave few points for anything else in a 2015pt list...

Maybe I'll stick to WE units and just play with the new ET magic rules?
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby popisdead » 20 Jan 2015, 02:11

The new magic rules can make a game last twice as long. Perhaps start with just including a model or two you really like. Alarielle is a great choice and since it is an easily obtainable model maybe start there.

Start with simple steps rather than dive in whole. My first ET game was adding Alarielle and a lvl 2 DE sorceress on Dark. Now i'm converting a Cauldron of Blood for my Wardancers. Baby steps :)
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Beithir Seun » 22 Jan 2015, 17:09

I had my first End Times game on Tuesday, and was in the same boat as you. I just took all Wood Elves as a Host of the Eternity King, and found it worked wonderfully. Even without adding in any Dark or High Elf units/characters, just gaining Murderous and Martial Prowess full-time (instead of only inside woods) was a big advantage, and makes several Wood Elf units better than their Dark or High counterparts anyway.

Like pop said, I think the best way is to test the waters and start with baby steps. Think of it in the same way as you normally would when building an army - what does the army need and what units/characters fulfill that need. Play with your normal Wood Elf army, see how it goes, adjust it as necessary with whatever units/characters cover your weaknesses or play to your strengths, be they Wood, Dark or High Elves!
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Aezeal » 23 Jan 2015, 10:00

I'd love to see a report with Malekith though.. he should be unkillable (or you lost already I guess) but can you keep him from getting bogged down and make him usefull (well 1000 points worth of usefull).
His magic and AoE effects on combat and LD should make a melee army much better and his shadow teleport thingie should help immensely too if used wisely.

off topic:
I'm wondering what sort of rules Archaon will have... I hope it will not be even more insane.
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Truthiness » 23 Jan 2015, 21:49

As someone who has straddled the line between Wood Elves and High Elves, I started thinking up possible combined lists as soon as the End Times started. Like others have said, a straight up Wood Elf list with just both Prowess rules full time goes a long way already. However, I've found that there are a few good High Elf additions to a more combat focused Wood Elf list that worked well. The first two are both pretty obvious: Frostheart and White Lions holding the Banner of the World Dragon.

The Frostheart is just a no brainer. It's amazing for combat centric Elf lists and has the mobility to go with Wood Elves. The White Lions with the banner make for a good anchor that Wood Elves don't quite have. If you want more staying power, but less hitting power, Phoenix Guard with the Razor Standard are a good alternative as well. The less obvious choice that I really like is a Noble BSB with the Reaver Bow and the Potion of Strength. Frankly, the magic item should have been a Wood Elf one anyway, so he works well sitting in a unit of Hagbane Glade Guard to add that little extra punch (3 S5 shots every turn with one turn of 3 S8 shots is very nice).

To give you an idea of the type of list I've been theorizing, here's the 2500 list I've been working on:

Spellweaver (level 4) w/High Magic, Elven Steed, Talisman of Preservation, Dispel Scroll
Noble BSB w/ Reaver Bow, Potion of Strength

17x Glade Guard w/Hagbane, Musician
5 Glade Riders w/ Trueflight, Musician
5 Glade Riders w/ Trueflight, Musician
5 Glade Riders w/ Starfire, Musician

5 Sisters of the Thorn
26 White Lions w/ Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon
6 Wild Riders w/Shields, Standard, Champion
6 Wild Riders w/Shields, Standard, Champion, Banner of Eternal Flame

Frostheart Phoenix
6 Waywatchers
6 Waywatchers

I've come to think of High Magic as essential in this age of 50% lords (Arcane Unforging). The convention wisdom might be to take an Archmage with the Book of Hoeth, but I've come to prefer the Wood Elf High Magic lore attribute combined with the Sisters bunker. A High Elf Archmage has a hard time getting the most out of High Magic while still remaining out of harms way. The Sisters' fast cav, 4+ ward save, and the Wood Elf High Magic attribute address all of those issues.
Last edited by Truthiness on 25 Jan 2015, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Aezeal » 24 Jan 2015, 05:41

I think Allarielle incarnate of life might be a good inclusion, maybe instead of the level 4, she brings so much.

The next link is maybe known but relevant so I'll post it. It's a LEAF worthy article.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/end-times-khaine-alarielle.html
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Jossebuschman » 27 Jan 2015, 17:16

Host of the eternity king is relly really good, honestly I think it is a little bit too good.

Adding a few bolt throwers does wonders for your steamtank/deamonprince killing abilities.
That way you don't have to take shadow to be able to wither it so you can take High instead for arcane unforging, as Thruthiness says, this spell keeps getting better.

I would like to hear your experiences with using the new magic rules, I really think they suck and do not make for a fun game.

Also, if you want to keep your friends, don't use Malekith (unless you know your opponent is taking Karl Franz or Nagash or something :P)
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Beithir Seun » 28 Jan 2015, 01:05

Jossebuschman wrote:I would like to hear your experiences with using the new magic rules, I really think they suck and do not make for a fun game.



Given that magic was already a big divider of opinion in the basic 8th Ed. rules anyway, any set of rules worthy of the name "End Times" is bound to do the same. I can't say I've really played enough End Times games yet to form a solid opinion, but the couple of games I have had so far have both been fun. The one thing I never liked about 8th Ed. magic rules was the sheer power potential of the magic phase to decide the game, especially big spells like Dwellers or Purple Sun. That power isn't gone, as those big spells still have the potential to decide the game, but the End Times rules mean that it's a little less likely that that situation comes up as the chances of being able to attempt a 6-dice Dwellers are slim. Magic is still powerful, but the End Times rules have shifted the focus away from 6-dice big spells, and onto players making more use of those lower-level spells which they can cast multiple times instead. I don't mind that.
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby Jerubaal » 29 Jan 2015, 13:27

I took Alarielle, Incarnate of Life, along with a L2 Shadow mage and a BSB.
We played so that the Sisters of the Thorn only had their two spells (not Loremaster of either).

I've been playing against a highly mobile High Elf list and this time it included Warlocks, Wild Riders and some other Dark Elf units.

Alarielle worked really well, but I did forget some of the rules, i.e. the ability to re-roll casting dice(!) and that units get a ward save as well as regen.
I will be facing more flaming attacks next time because her regen bubble meant that flimsy Glade Guard survived really well, along with getting Regrowth off a couple of times.

My first round of magic really worked, as the Warlocks and a unit of Wild Riders were taken out of the game.
The Sisters unit did some good work with their javelins - next time I'd like Wissans to improve their strength.

The only enemy units left were a dragon mage and a few cavalry of some sort :)
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Re: Khaine - where to start with building a list?

Postby popisdead » 12 Feb 2015, 22:37

A use for my 20 Wildqood Rangers is using them to counts-as White Lions with the BotWD.
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