Unicorn Lone Weaver

[pliny]

Different to doing a mounted version but I think it would work - ideally you would magnetize then, or maybe just get 2 unicorns - a rearing one for the darkweaver and another for the high?

[chickenbane]

Anyone tested the high or Dark Weaver in End times magic?

[Syphilis]

I might try mounting it though. .. The weaver will be riding side saddlle while shooting a bow on a unicorn rearing up. Could look rediculous

[Etheneus]

Why not use the Morathi model for a darkweaver on unicorn? Remove the wings and a horn or two from the pegasus and maybe do something about Morathi's staff. Very dark and menacing.

[sunstrider]

Why not use the Morathi model for a darkweaver on unicorn? Remove the wings and a horn or two from the pegasus and maybe do something about Morathi's staff. Very dark and menacing.

Actually...do this thing. This is a good thing :P

[godswearhats]

Dark weaver on a unicorn is extremely good. Fencers blades, talisman preservation, and a low arcane of your choice (I like scepter). Put her in a unit to protect vs bs shooting and then pull her out turn 2 to drop the shroud bomb. Or put her on the edge of wild riders and charge in - gives WR 4++ vs magic. WS 10 and being on the end will keep her reasonably protected.

Pair it up with anything that causes multiple Ld tests. Fear/terror causers, Final Trans/Burning Head (hilarious!). Death sig an obvious finisher here.

Vs anything that doesn't care about Ld (Undead for the most part) you can just keep her back and protected and drop doom bolts.

[Tanglewood]

The problem with the dark weaver on unicorn is cannonball. 4++ is just not enough. You can get some war hawks but you're spending a lot of points just for another 4++ LoS or to screen for her temporarily. Personally I run high and another lvl 4 metal. Works beautifully as the two lores complement each other in casting value, target, utility, range, phases & even include some nice synergies/combi.

[popisdead]

I'd love to see someone model a set of twins. One wielding High Magic on a Unicorn and one wielding Dark Magic on a currupted Unicorn.

That is a slick idea.

I've only used a high on a unicorn. Has great synergy for the army and my play style.

[Syphilis]

Has anyone used this mix? Sounds like a bit of points? But would look pretty.

[Phazael]

Too many points to sink into two models, especially since woodies lack the ability to generate more dice in the magic phase. I tried running two L4s and found that one of them was always idle. Further, with the High Weaver, you nearly always want her using all available dice to generate counters.

[Slobber]

What I've found running two lvl 4s in an all comers environment is that vs different armies one or the other will be your go-to. I often get more use early game out of high and more Shadow in the middle. However in Swedish lately I've been fine running only high. Honestly in comped environments the unicorn high Weaver has been an all-star and has only died when I moved up and failed to take out an organ gun.

[Syphilis]

Would you ever run a lvl 4 high unicorn with a lvl 2 Ancient? Or a lvl 1 or 2 spellweaver of somesort? Shadow or beast?

[sunstrider]

The problem with the dark weaver on unicorn is cannonball. 4++ is just not enough

Actually the problem is never really a cannonball, and it never really was. The problem is there is a slim chance that a cannonball might maybe possibly hit and kill something big outright, so everyone bases their decision making on something that probably won't happen. Cannonballs are more than hard to get on target, and then they've gotta roll a 3 or better to actually kill your mage if they somehow hit your mage. And if you have high magic on your uniweaver, protection counters completely trivialize cannonballs.

And 4++ is pretty good for a non tzeentch character. I'm not sure how you plan on improving a good ward save

[Phil Rossiter]

Disagree.

Running a Great Stag every game, I found even with a 3+ Ward he died at times to war machines. Now a little safer with Charmed Shield and 4+ Ward it's still not watertight. If he keeps taking cannonballs he will die. Protection Counters make a big difference.

You can screen with stuff like Warhawks and put wounds on with that Dark spell but it's still a bit hairy IMHO.

[popisdead]

Actually the problem is never really a cannonball, and it never really was. The problem is there is a slim chance that a cannonball might maybe possibly hit and kill something big outright, so everyone bases their decision making on something that probably won't happen.

This leads me to believe you never face cannons or you play empire and feel your cannons should do more.

[sunstrider]

Actually the problem is never really a cannonball, and it never really was. The problem is there is a slim chance that a cannonball might maybe possibly hit and kill something big outright, so everyone bases their decision making on something that probably won't happen.

This leads me to believe you never face cannons or you play empire and feel your cannons should do more.

You're wrong on both counts. I just don't let the fear of a random cannonball beating the odds make all my decisions for me

[Tanglewood]

You are either:

1/ have not played enough games vs cannons in which case please make it clear to everyone that you're theorycrafting
2/ don't understand risk vs reward for wfb
3/ trolling in which case please stop

For the unicorn spell weaver, the chance of a cannon doing 2 wounds (which really limit her usefulness) is about 25%. 2 cannons, doubly scary. Over multiple turns, the chance of your 4++ spellweaver surviving rapidly diminishes. For a gg, I couldn't care less with this odd. For a 500 vp model and your lvl 4 magic defence, it's just an unacceptable risk for the reward of a (debatable) better lore.

For an outright kill, the odd is slightly lower for your opponent at about 20% but you don't always need to kill something to render it ineffective and 20% per cannon is again, too high a risk for the reward.

[Tanglewood]

Too many points to sink into two models, especially since woodies lack the ability to generate more dice in the magic phase. I tried running two L4s and found that one of them was always idle. Further, with the High Weaver, you nearly always want her using all available dice to generate counters.

Although woodies do not normally have easy dice generation, high weaver allows you to field forbidden rod high unicorn weaver pretty risk free. The way to use double level 4 effectively is to go for small spells but many of them. So in the high lore, hand of glory/walk between world/arcane unforging/small soul quench are your choice of spells. For metal, it'll be searing doom/plague of rust (best spell of the lore) and enchanted blade. Thats why these two combined works well but anything with shadow won't for example. Also, using smaller dice casting, more spells are likely to go off, more consistent magic output, less risk of losing your lvl 4, etc

e.g. on a 4-3 phases, you can throw 5 then 2 and they'll throw 3 on the 2nd, netting you one spell. On smaller casting, you can throw 2-2-2-1 and they can throw 2-1 so you'll get off 2 spells. But you'll benefit from a 5 pd spell right? If that 5 pd spell is going to do a lot of damage, it'll be scrolled where as nobody really wants to scroll a 2 dice spell. You'll also still get a spell off in case of scroll.

Then there is the range thing. High is quite restrictive in that the range is a generally 18" or 24". That means smaller selection of spells can be cast which make dispelling quite straight forward. Metal starts from 24" up to 48". I guess there isn't a big difference from 18" to 24", it's only 1/3 extra or so. However, plenty of things can and will risk an 18" inch charge whilst nothing in the game (bar bret) can complete a 24" charge meaning you can park directly opposite units blasting away merrily with metal but not with high. Later in the game when ppl are maneuvering round terrains, units, etc or your 20" move allows you to sneak past their line, then the range of your high magic stops being a problem and your arsenal of useful spells increases.

Then there are the synergies between the two lores. High mm and fiery convo is great when you're dealing with a big block or something that needs many hits (e.g. high T stuff). However, it lacks the punching power to go through armoured targets. Metal on the other hand is great at dealing with these well armoured targets (searing doom, plague of rust) but lack the tool to deal serious damage to big blocks or high T targets if they're unarmoured (which they tend to be). Then there are synergies between spells. Plague of rust is nice for amplifying the dmg output of soul quench/fiery convo as well as generally good withtrue flight. Arcane unforging is useful for dealing with those 3++ warrior characters with dragonbane gem. You'll either get their ward or their gem so you can shoot them off or big searing doom. Then there's also those blocks with 2++ magic protection (either BotWD or magic res + scroll of shielding or natural ward)/high T + regen or good armour. Blocks that flaming convocation just aren't very effective against. These blocks are usually crammed with characters and in this scenario, you'll have final trans to deal with them. Then you have some duplicity for HoG and enchanted blade. Hand of glory is great on waywatchers and swiftshivers so it'll get dispelled so you go for the enchanted blade.

I've been playing with this combo for a while now and perform reasonably well with them. Games are always very tactical and you'll have plenty of options rather than the usual 6 dicing spells and if that mindrazor doesn't go off, it's good game and good night.

[Phil Rossiter]

It sounds excellent.

But I feel High/Shadow is also strong, like Amit Hindocha took to the UK Masters. A 4 v 2 phase say, can see you get one key spell through pretty much automatically or it'll draw the scroll. Even snake eyes can be a perfect Winds if you're sitting on a Power Scroll.

Granted it might not be ideal with the Unicorn, where a pure trickle phase lets you rack up the counters quicker. Though she can join any unit she pleases temporarily, or get screened until she's put a couple of counters on.

[sunstrider]

You are either:

1/ have not played enough games vs cannons in which case please make it clear to everyone that you're theorycrafting
2/ don't understand risk vs reward for wfb
3/ trolling in which case please stop

Yeah I have a different opinion than you do, I must be trolling. You also haven't addressed my point about the slim odds of cannons being effective, so maybe you should take my point into consideration.

[Millingskink]

My opponent regularly used ogres with ironblasters, and daemons with the ridiculous skill cannons.

If you aren't afraid of cannons on a single model, your opponent must be playing them poorly.

They regularly hit and wound, and even protection counters aren't a complete fail safe. Things like screamers / fast cav shooters / magic missiles / poison skinks etc can strip off counters and then follow up with a cannon shot. You'll fail 2++ saves against mm more often than you think, and if your opponent has been diligent about not letting you get all your high spells through it's not hard to sneak through a wound or two every turn.

A smart opponent will keep ticking away at the counters. I've noticed the threshold is usually around 3-4. If you only have 1-2 counters they're more apt to chase the rabbit. However once you get 3-4 counters they usually stop targeting it because it's a "waste of time".

I never found it to be slim odds at all. It happened all the time actually, especially since WE generally don't have better targets and there's usually nowhere to hide from them.

The tokens are a nice bonus, but only as a deterrent. If your opponent is determined enough and has tools, they're really not that great. I think they mainly look great on paper and are useful for miscast protection, but that's about it.

[Phil Rossiter]

especially since WE generally don't have better targets

One of the reasons I run the Ancient is to draw cannon fire from my Great Stag General. It's risky and yes the Ancient does tend to go down eventually if the enemy's determined. But focus fire, even on a guy with Charmed Shield, 4++, M9 and who can get stuck into combat, is too dangerous. In return, he gets to cause a lot of trouble. The Ancient has six wounds and can heal, so he tends to last awhile.

I'd never expose him to Skullcannon though. Go down too cheaply.

[Millingskink]

When I look at the field it's just too risky for an ancient.

Dwarfs - flaming war machines
CDwarfs - flaming war machines
TK - Double flaming catapults
DoC - flaming cannon

Then on top of that there's a myriad or other things that you'd run into competitively that would put a giant dent in him.

The fact that almost a quarter of the armies have pretty much auto kill weapons against him keeps me from running it. There are a few builds Ive considered but none of them would really be anything other than fun.

Also, it's easy enough to strip a charmed shield with a mm or other cheap shooting. Just isn't worth the risk to me.

I've run high magic for a while now and the charm has worn off. My biggest problem is that the lore doesn't really perform well enough for me on its own and when you combo it up, the spells basically play second fiddle to the main lore and it just never seems quite as effective.

I was a fan at first, and it's still good, but it just seems so mediocre as a lore when you HAVE to take it on a lord level faster. It'd be perfect if they had opened it up to singers, but I can see why they didn't.

[Aezeal]

Phil, how about getting neither and just going regular elves? That would give the enemy nothing very expensive to target. And most things a combat character can kill can also be killed by massed HB shooting.

[Phil Rossiter]

MM's and archery are not such a problem for the Charmed Shield because the guy is in a unit.

What I'm finding is that some games the Ancient has to hide, though his magic still works of course. TK and CD's are not that popular here, even Dwarfs. Daemons are. The killer spells you can usually dice or scroll. ATM I'm seeing a lot more WoC and elves than those armies.

The thing is, I get two crucial things from him. The first is a Treeman with six wounds and Stubborn 10, which means he can roadblock without BSB and I can pivot an attack around him. The second is Dwellers for 135pts, which is a massive equaliser against some armies. I also have a lvl4 Beasts, in any given game, one of them will be strong. If one goes down I still have a good magic phase and dispel at +4.

I don't like the fact that he can be one-shotted at times but I'm struggling to find a replacement that lets me attack at times, most things lead to shooty/avoidance. Nothing wrong with that, it just I like having the option to attack. At the moment I estimate that's costing me around 10 BP's per tournament, which is a shame but bearable.