Pure whine

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Kakapo42
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Kakapo42 »

Drstrangelove wrote: 10 inch march and shoot on a 30inch longbow with no penalties to hit.......this is UNPARALLELED mobile shooting in 8th edition WHFB.
I... seem to be missing something here. I've been over my copy of the BRB twice now, and I can't find anything that says skirmishers have no penalties to hit.
Warhammer 8th edition rulebook, special rules section, page 77, skirmishers 'Fire on the March' wrote:However, the normal -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting still applies.


That is what it says on the subject on skirmishers shooting in my copy of the rulebook (as well as saying they can shoot if they've marched or reformed). I'm not meaning to be hostile or anything, this is something I'm genuinely confused about. Was there a FAQ or errata that changed this?
Oregonwoodelf wrote:I'm also very confused by the "I don't like the feel of the book" and the "fluff has been ruined". The feel/fluff changed dramatically from 5th to 6th and most of 6th we just had a ravening hordes page for a book. We went from the happy little elves to the green peace xenophobes. I think "the feel has been ruined" is as valid as me arguing the feel from 5th has been ruined by the newer books. Or the feel from ravening hordes(No fluff!!!!) has been ruined by the new books. But I have only been playing WE a measly 15years.


I freely admit that it is something very subjective - what exactly the feel of the book is and whether or not the background has been improved or not will vary from person to person. We are all different after all, and as such all have different tastes and preferences. I imagine there were probably a fair few people who felt that the 6th edition book ruined the flavour and background of the one before it. And indeed you could argue the newer books ruined the feel of the 5th edition one and be perfectly valid, since if that's what you hypothetically felt about it then you'd be free to express that opinion. I'm not sure about the others, but I for one am not trying to claim that the new book is universally bad and everyone should hate it (and I am very sorry if I came across that way, I did not mean to), simply that I myself, personally, am not happy with it, and that I personally feel that at least some of the feel of the last book has been lost in it. That is however, simply what my own personal feelings are on the subject.
Coyle_Ravane wrote:I did have friends who didn't like the change though. There are always people who loved the way it was and just want that brought up to date (after the dwarf release I hoped that would be the case for us too this time). In a marked difference to the current discussion, I tried to show them what I thought was great about the new book, but when they didn't share my enthusiasm, I respected their feelings about it, and tried to be supportive in the hope that they'd keep playing and eventually come to enjoy the new book.

Now, I'm going to keep playing anyway. I've already said that it is a good book overall, several times. I have already found a tactical style with the new army that I can enjoy, and isn't too hugely different to my old style. But I am not going to have as much fun playing with the new book, it can't fight the way my army did before.

People can talk about scouts and magic arrows, but that doesn't work for me because I'm paying a lot more points for a unit whose extra mobility doesn't help in the situations I used to use it because of their much larger unit footprint, and who don't hit as hard with their shooting.

I hope wizzy will reconsider, and that everyone who doesn't like the new book as much will find a way to keep enjoying their wood elves. For me, it will be trying to get more out of the hobby side, which I have always tended to ignore, to make up for not enjoying the way my army plays as much (and I can't wait to show you all the waystalker conversions I am starting as soon as I get some more greenstuff!).

If Wizzy or others do quit however, I won't blame them, especially in light of the condescending, unsupportive, disrespectful and flat out rude reception they've been given by some people, for having the temerity to not love the new book.


I tend to agree with this, especially the part in bold. It may just be because I seem to be in the minority opinion, but I've been noticing a slight amount of heat being directed towards those who are unhappy with the new book. It's perfectly well and good to have an opposing viewpoint, after all an important part of a discussion forum is healthy debate and, well, discussion. But it's best to keep things as supportive and constructive as possible, and I don't think condescending and disrespectful tone and language will help facilitate a good discussion or the friendly atmosphere that this site so often has. I may not be happy with the new book at the moment (and that could change in the future), but I'm still really enthusiastic about the Wood Elves in Warhammer in general. Some people aren't pleased with the new book, it always happens with any new release, that's just how it is, but that doesn't make their feelings any less valid than those who love the change. We're all still Wood Elf fans, and no new book is going to change that (I think).

EDIT: odd, it seems to have merged in part of my post with my quotes. I've tried a bunch of things, but cannot seem to fix this. If anyone can help with that I would be very thankful. Very easily fixed, you were just missing a speech mark (") at the end of your quote ~ Beithir
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

I think the bit about scouts moving and shooting without penalty was referencing the magic arrows which let the unit ignore all to hit modifiers. You have to pay a third the cost of a basic gladeguard per model for the privilege however.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Ioreth Starmantle »

Oregonwoodelf wrote:
If Wizzy or others do quit however, I won't blame them, especially in light of the condescending, unsupportive, disrespectful and flat out rude reception they've been given by some people, for having the temerity to not love the new book.
Now... I've rage quit a couple-couple things in my time, depending on one's precise definition of 'rage' and 'quit', at least.

Fourth-edition D&D could almost have been specifically written to put me off and it took less than ten games of 6th ed 40k for me to decide I wanted no part of it. Traveller 5... Oh lord, Traveller 5! Traveller 5 is a sort of Platonic ideal of disappointment, incarnated as an unplayable labyrinthine toolset of left-handed screwdrivers.

I believe, in other words, that I know the feeling. If someone really doesn't like this new book (as legitimately baffling as that is to me), then of course they do not have to play. I've felt like that about some things, as I say.

I've never quite sunk to the level of telling people about it, though.

I've never made a thread like this to grandly announce my royal displeasure with whatevs and bid farewell to the great unwashed.

I've never done that because, on the whole, I feel the only appropriate response if I did would be 'Okie dokie. Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out. We'll be over here having fun if'n you change your mind.'.

Ducky at least asked to be argued over. Wizzy Warlock... What can anyone say to him but 'We'll be over here having fun if'n you change your mind.'?
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Drstrangelove »

Coyle_Ravane wrote:I think the bit about scouts moving and shooting without penalty was referencing the magic arrows which let the unit ignore all to hit modifiers. You have to pay a third the cost of a basic gladeguard per model for the privilege however.
Yes that's correct, I was referring to Scouts with trueflight arrows.
We used to pay 17pts for a Scout that had no magic arrows AND no S4, hitting as hard as warm zucchini.
Now for 16pts (it's 25% of a GG, not 1/3, if we are being pedantic) we get one that hits harder and ALWAYS hits on 3s. I don't think people are quite getting how good this is, and won't until they play against it and find out how impossible it is to play against units that kill you from across the board and continually put distance between when you try to close. And then when you DO get close, they will just sit right next to your unit, out of your charge arc, and continue where they left off.
There was a reason my LGS banned all skink scout armies in 6th. It was bent as elbow pasta.
What we have isn't bent, merely good. And it fits the guerrilla feel people have been crying about the new book not having, which I just don't understand.
If you feel skirmishers have too big a footprint for the job, please give them more of a go. You'll rapidly change your mind.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Drstrangelove wrote:
Coyle_Ravane wrote:I think the bit about scouts moving and shooting without penalty was referencing the magic arrows which let the unit ignore all to hit modifiers. You have to pay a third the cost of a basic gladeguard per model for the privilege however.
Yes that's correct, I was referring to Scouts with trueflight arrows.
We used to pay 17pts for a Scout that had no magic arrows AND no S4, hitting as hard as warm zucchini.
Now for 16pts (it's 25% of a GG, not 1/3, if we are being pedantic) we get one that hits harder and ALWAYS hits on 3s. I don't think people are quite getting how good this is, and won't until they play against it and find out how impossible it is to play against units that kill you from across the board and continually put distance between when you try to close. And then when you DO get close, they will just sit right next to your unit, out of your charge arc, and continue where they left off.
There was a reason my LGS banned all skink scout armies in 6th. It was bent as elbow pasta.
What we have isn't bent, merely good. And it fits the guerrilla feel people have been crying about the new book not having, which I just don't understand.
If you feel skirmishers have too big a footprint for the job, please give them more of a go. You'll rapidly change your mind.
I don't like playing Sethayla, because it is often not fun for the other guy. I like to take the fight to the other guy, but pick the first round of fights thanks to my mobility.

Part of my problem is that I evolved a distinct style of my own, which doesn't work anymore. I get that that is my problem, not everyone else's, but i'm still entitled to be unhappy about that, and the changes which stop it working, and to discuss my opinion about it.

My style revolved around pushing foward 2 blocks of EG, with dryads and wardancers around and between them. The EG engaged as soon as possible, while the skirmishers spread around and between the enemy units, pulling them out of their battleline for my wildriders to join in with flank/rear charges.

My gladeguard advance behind the EG, wheeling to fire to either side, with the skirmishers shuffling to open fire lanes.

Once combat gets all swirly in the middle (how I like it), the gg slowly weave through, picking off or weakening unengaged units with s4 hitting on 3+.

Scouts can't do it, as they have a large footprint which often can't fit in the gaps between combats without getting charged.

I don't want to pay 4pts (sorry, but 4 is 1/3 of 12, not 25%) to do the same job worse, with no s4.

Now I have an alternate style for the new book, but it just isn't as fun, it lacks the high-risk, high reward aspect I enjoyed so much.

Fortunately, experimenting with my Tau (yes I also play mobile, in your face, with Tau too, successfully I might add) has introduced me to the joy of kitbashing, conversion and modelling, and with my very artistic 7yr old son wanting to start painting miniatures (it started when I left my white dwarf out the other week, I came down in the morning and he was flipping through the pages, utterly fascinated with the treeman models), I have a reason to get into that side too.

And yes, I'm pretty sure my son will paint better than I do!
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Drstrangelove »

Coyle_Ravane wrote: My style revolved around pushing foward 2 blocks of EG, with dryads and wardancers around and between them. The EG engaged as soon as possible, while the skirmishers spread around and between the enemy units, pulling them out of their battleline for my wildriders to join in with flank/rear charges.
My gladeguard advance behind the EG, wheeling to fire to either side, with the skirmishers shuffling to open fire lanes.
Once combat gets all swirly in the middle (how I like it), the gg slowly weave through, picking off or weakening unengaged units with s4 hitting on 3+.
Sounds great! Why can't you do that with the new book? Sounds pretty much precisely what many have indicated they will do. And with EG being naturally stubborn, WD and WR being better and march and fire GG......you'll be killing it!
Coyle_Ravane wrote: Scouts can't do it, as they have a large footprint which often can't fit in the gaps between combats without getting charged.
Huh. Unlimited. Free. Reforms. They can reform to be 1 model wide, fitting between any combat that's more than 70mm apart. Ie they can fit into any gap non-skirmishers can fit into, and can do it better because unlike your regular GG they aren't going to be totally screwed run 1 wide.
Coyle_Ravane wrote: I don't want to pay 4pts (sorry, but 4 is 1/3 of 12, not 25%) to do the same job worse, with no s4.
trueflight is 3pts/model. AP at any range is almost as good as S4 at close range only. Armour was always our problem, not toughness.

I won't pester you anymore about it, as it's no fun for anyone and unlikely to change anyones mind, but I do think that what you are describing as the way you play is precisely the play that fits this book PERFECTLY. I think with time you'll come to agree with me, at least in part.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by bjoernuhlig »

my 2 cents:
I like the book overall, beside some of the larger changes. I like the arrows, dislike the loss of the asrai archery rule. the magical changes are good imo.
but there's one thing, correct me if im wrong, i havent had time to thouroughly check this. it seems to me as if some of the stories are just copy pasted, without much change. that is: the unit background fluff, when i was reading it, and I love fluff, I couldnt help but think: wait: thats straight copied out of the old book.

now some fluff changes are obvious, like the sisters background, some of it somehow got lost, some is new, like the special connections to ariel. im fine with that.
but some paragraphs are ... dull, or, jsut like the old ones, or in fact the old ones? i will check this, when i find time. its not so big a deal, but i dislike it when the wood elves dont get the treament they deserve.

anyone else got that impression, the lack of ... dunno, thourougness. ?
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Zimmonda »

why are people complaining that WOOD elves need WOODS to fight at full strength?
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Re: Pure whine

Post by yesilderya »

Zimmonda wrote:why are people complaining that WOOD elves need WOODS to fight at full strength?
Zimmonda: I guess they complain because the high elves don't need to smoke weed, or the tomb kings don't need tombs to fight at full strength.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by hutobega »

Thats a lie, for how strong high elves used to be they were def smoking something...Performance enhancing...lol
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Baardah »

To the OP, and you others who think the new book is underpowered. Have you taken a look at this thread
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26264

It's a pretty thourough walk through of the new AB and some battle reports in where a WOC, and an ogre army among others are tabled.

I for one was abit sceptical myself, but this thread really turned me over.

I think it's too soon to drop the army and the game now anyway. I for one am so looking forward to get to mind razor my wood elves....
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That item is a horse...
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Jamesaet3 »

I want dryads to be skirmishers again.

I want our casters to be able to cast treesinging, and our treeman to do the same. However, with our ability to get boosts in the wood, I can see why they won't let us.

I want our casters to get a ward save too, we didn't get it, and I'm not sure why.

I like a lot of stats that we have in the book. I will be experimenting with different units just like the rest of us.

I don't know why warhawks got the armor piercing and the great eagles didn't......explain that one to me.

I very much like our arrows and shooting.

Not too sure why wild riders have frenzy and Orion doesn't.
Orion is back to being a badass, however, his bolt thrower is just as deadly as the high elf ones moonbow. And I'd rather take a 260 pt elf vs orion any day of the week to be honest.

I'm not big at all into the storyline. I don't mind the tree lines or w/e they are called. I do like the whole nuetrallity aspect, but then again they always were to me. I AM VERY GLAD SPITES ARE GONE and have been replaced with small animals. I like how the whole chaos thing is starting to fade from the look and feel of the wood elves, and going back to them just being elves that live in athel loren.

Still not a fan of ASF for everyone but forest spirits. I guess I gotta like it though.

Our dragon is a forest spirit! YES!! I wonder what base we will be using for it? Or can we just use a high elf dragon!
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Jamesaet3 wrote:
I'm not big at all into the storyline. I don't mind the tree lines or w/e they are called. I do like the whole nuetrallity aspect, but then again they always were to me. I AM VERY GLAD SPITES ARE GONE and have been replaced with small animals. I like how the whole chaos thing is starting to fade from the look and feel of the wood elves, and going back to them just being elves that live in athel loren.
I don't understand what you mean here.

Spites aren't gone from the fluff or models, those weird little creatures on the new models ARE spites. I'm not a fan myself, I preferred the little Faerie looking ones personally, but nevermind.

What chaos thing are you talking about? Spires aren't anything to do with chaos, they are Faerie creatures, forest spirits just like the ones animating treekin and treemen.

I know we had one mounted hero model who looked slightly chaos-like but that was it, and the only chaos thing in the fluff was the while beastmen are wood elves direct nemesis bit, which is still there.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Sidewinder »

Drstrangelove wrote:Unfortunately when people have an issue with a new book that they can't adequately articulate, it normally just means that they had got used to the old book and are scared of change.
Or it simply means they are not very good at putting their feelings into words, or it means the receiver of the message isn't any good at understanding the message.
There could be many reasons not just scared/resistance to change.
Zimmonda wrote:Are people seriously positing that this new book is anything but loads better than the old one?
Well, yes because for some it is not "loads better" for various reasons. One reason that it's not better for me is because of the big swing to the magic phase. I dislike (borderline despise) the magic phase. The movement, shooting, and combat phases had to be adjusted because of that big swing. I really enjoy the movement, shooting, and combat phases. Also, thematically it doesn't make sense that Wood Elves have certain lore. So for me, no, it is not loads better; I will simply have to adapt to the new book.
Ioreth Starmantle wrote:
Ducky wrote: So with this new book all i can think is :cry: It's so horrible! Am i the only one thinking this?
No, lots of people are crazy..
That's uncalled for.
Ioreth Starmantle wrote:My god, man! Just look at the whining here and elsewhere over the last week. Now imagine if wood Elves - the premier archers of the Warhammer world - were the only archers not to have Volley Fire! Ducky would have thrown even more toys out of the pram and Wizzy Warlock probably would have self-destructed...
You don't know how they would have reacted if WE would not have gotten the HE Volley Fire rule (one that is a limited version). And no, WE wouldn't have been the only army without it. Besides, WE already had the BRB Volley Fire rule. And if WE are the premier archers of the Warhammer World, why are we getting HE hand-me-downs?
Ioreth Starmantle wrote:...I think it's a good thing that we lost our in-built ability to move and fire without penalty. Y'see, I'm a Wood Elf player, but I'm also a player of two other armies. I once described fighting old Wood Elves as trying to fight smoke with a hammer. It can be... Well, could be very, very frustrating as the Asrai shot and then melted away like mist. Frustrating is not fun.

Should Dwarves never use the castle technique, should DE never use double hydra armies, should VC never use their blender Vampire accompanied with double Terrorgheists, should any army list never be played because it's not fun for the opponent? The "fight smoke with hammer" style at least requires some skill to execute properly.
Drstrangelove wrote:
Kakapo42 wrote:No, it's the feel of the book I don't like.
I keep hearing this and to be honest it doesn't make sense.
You don't get it. That's because you are focusing on the following instead of what Kakapo42 is saying.
Drstrangelove wrote:Mostly the book feels different because it isn't underpowered...
Power and winning games isn't what Kakapo42 is talking about.
Kakapo42 wrote:
Drstrangelove wrote: The next big hurdle...was the loss of Asrai Archery.
Sorry but this is rubbish.
You couldn't have said, "I disagree" instead?
Drstrangelove wrote:
Kakapo42 wrote: While on this subject, I feel I should mention Waywatchers.... they've also lost the old Forrest Stalker rule
You do know that was Errataed/FAQed out of existence some time back? Thought not.
Does that matter? The statement supports his argument that WE is losing or has lost their uniqueness and the "feel" of the overall WE experience. You seem to be getting angrier with each comment you make.
Drstrangelove wrote:
Kakapo42 wrote: But it's the magic items that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.
We kept more magic items than any other 8th edition book. Please try to have some perspective.
If we are keeping things in perspective then we must point out that two of the items, the banners, are complete "rubbish" and will probably never be played. I have my doubts about the Spirit Sword as well. This puts us at equal to or less than other books for magical items. And once again, it's not the amount maintained or lost, nor whether they were any good or not, it's still the overarching -

I give up. I can't express this any better than Kakao42, Ducky, Wizzy, or the rest.

Final thought. With the new book released, for many of us WE players that emersed ourselves into the Wood Elf experience with the modeling, reading of stories, playing games and chatting with others about Warhammer and Wood Elves, we have lost a "friend". No different than experiencing the loss of a favorite fictional character in a book, in a movie, or tv series. Of late, our "friend" wasn't the best of friends. Letting us down way too often, not coming through when we really needed it, but still our "friend" nonetheless.

Some WE players came to Asrai.org for solace in their loss. What they got was told they are "crazy" and their feelings are "rubbish."

Have a good day.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Zimmonda »

Bro not liking the magic phase and playing an elf army.......its kinda like disliking random elements and playing orcs
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Gorthaur »

Coyle_Ravane wrote:
Jamesaet3 wrote:
I'm not big at all into the storyline. I don't mind the tree lines or w/e they are called. I do like the whole nuetrallity aspect, but then again they always were to me. I AM VERY GLAD SPITES ARE GONE and have been replaced with small animals. I like how the whole chaos thing is starting to fade from the look and feel of the wood elves, and going back to them just being elves that live in athel loren.
I don't understand what you mean here.

Spites aren't gone from the fluff or models, those weird little creatures on the new models ARE spites. I'm not a fan myself, I preferred the little Faerie looking ones personally, but nevermind.

What chaos thing are you talking about? Spires aren't anything to do with chaos, they are Faerie creatures, forest spirits just like the ones animating treekin and treemen.

I know we had one mounted hero model who looked slightly chaos-like but that was it, and the only chaos thing in the fluff was the while beastmen are wood elves direct nemesis bit, which is still there.
Indeed Spites still exist in Athel Loren, they are lesser forest spirits that can take many small forms...that's why all the ones in the Treeman kit look different. I think I read somewhere that they look like lights or odd things when they aren't taking a specific form.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Sidewinder »

Zimmonda wrote:Bro not liking the magic phase and playing an elf army.......its kinda like disliking random elements and playing orcs
True for High Elves and Dark Elves armies but not so for Wood Elves. Prior to the new book, WE had a very limited magic phase. A level 4 mage was on WE army lists primarily for magic defense and this was done only after the release of the 8th ed basic rulebook (BRB). Prior to that, it was two level 1 mages carrying two dispel scrolls each. So, for the past 15 years or so, the Magic phase was never a strong suite for WE.

Maybe it was playing against so many Lizardmen players that caused me to dislike the magic phase. Well, we went from famine to feast with this new book. Who knows, maybe I'll end up liking the magic phase.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Hody »

I love the new book!

I wasn't very happy when I first heard about the changes and I was on the fence until I read it. Now I'm sold on it, it has really rekindled my love to my woodies!
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Re: Pure whine

Post by WizzyWarlock »

So people aren't happy that I'm saying I don't like the new book, wondering when I'm leaving and selling my stuff - well, I've been here for years, you don't mind if I hang around and see how people are taking to it, do you?

My thoughts on the new book: It seems to me that they've tried to make Wood Elves into a Dwarven gunline, exchanging cannons for units of archers. The Forest Spirits have been nerfed into obscurity, they're not going to be winning any combats alone, even the things you'd have thrown Treemen at in the last book they now are going to struggle with, so you have to instead focus more on shooting and holding up the enemy - which is how they seem to have been designed. Running down the list - Glade Guard can cover many options, from breaking armour to shooting the eye out of an owl perched half a mile away inside the arrow slit of a castle keep which is entrenched in dense forest. Yeah, those arrows are crazy. Add onto that the Waywatchers, which can ignore armour and fire multiple shots, and you have a nice array of shooting potential. Now, the Glade Guard are weak alone, so they need protection: Enter the Forest Spirits. Dryads are now ranked up and only S3, but keep their T4, so they're not going to win any prolonged combats after Hatred, but will hold up the enemy for a little longer, allowing the Glade Guard to focus fire on something else. The same story with Treekin and again with the Treeman, but increasing in the strength of the opponent you're trying to hold up. Once the enemy is weakened to a manageable state, the Wild Riders do what they've always done and mop up, though they're much better at the task now.

Add on a bit of magic offense and defense and that there is basically how the army is now going to play out. Sure, you can grab some Rangers or Eternal Guard, but they're basically going to be replacing the job of your Forest Spirits in holding up the enemy so you can shoot them down. You can't put a Lord character at the front of those units because they don't have the protection, so your Lord is likely going to be an archer type too. So if you like playing a gunline army then I guess this is for you, if you liked the army the way it used to be, with lots of movement, skirmishers attacking from all angles, hitting hard and fading away, getting in close and circling your targets - then, like me, you're going to be disappointed.

EDIT: And as if to prove my point: http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=26484
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
Coyle_Ravane
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Honestly Wizzy, that was my first impression, that we'd gone back to a gunline, but that's not the case. People are going to try it, but it isn't going to work competitively that way. We still can't match dwarves or empire for gunline play, and I'm not sure yet whether we can even match high elves or dark elves. With the exception of waywatchers, who are limited in availability, our shooters are to expensive for too little hitting power, unless you add magic arrows, which gets even more expensive, while specializing firepower so it gets even less efficient when it is not targeting the right type of target.

Our avoidance style play has probably hot stronger, it is only in the more balanced playstyle where we really lose mobility.

We can still do balanced play well though, EG can pin units down while you line up flank/rear charges with wildriders or wardancers.

I am disappointed with the new book too, it's good, but it's lost some of what made it special, and missed an opportunity to build on the special parts. The reaction from some people to those of us who are unhappy with the new book is very disappointing, but it's only a minority, most people here understand, even if they are happy with it themselves.

It is still a good book though, and I really hope you, and anyone else thinking of quitting wood elves, will give it a chance and try to find a way of playing it that you'll enjoy.
Minty wrote:...if you've been killed by a Wood Elf it's nothing personal, but Charles Darwin is smiling with approval.
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Re: Pure whine

Post by ZT Strike »

Cernunnos wrote:Now things have changed again, some for better, some for worse. It is in the nature of the game and the books. Inevitably somethings are ALWAYS made worse and some better.
-ZT Strike
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Cernunnos
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Cernunnos »

Back in 4th ed, Dryads could take on different aspects, Birch, Oak etc, Waywatchers could lay traps that had a table, back then we had no kindred, no sprites, no move and shoot with no penalty, we simply had a greater bow range but it worked mages could ride a warhawk. All that vanished. Last ed, it was getting to be a forest spirit army with wood elves tagging along. NOW we have wood ELVES instead of WOOD elves, if I actually had my book (pause to wipe tears away) I'm sure that I could go into way more depth on the new book.
Proud owner of Ltd Wood Elves book 446

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Beithir Seun
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Beithir Seun »

Gents, I'm going to step in here and issue a general word of warning. While most people have continued this discussion maturely and tried to engage in a conversation, there have also been a number of negative, condescending and altogether unwelcome comments being made.
Drstrangelove wrote:Unfortunately when people have an issue with a new book that they can't adequately articulate, it normally just means that they had got used to the old book and are scared of change.

You'll get over it.
Adahy wrote:You haven't played a game...but you hate it...and you won't explain why.

Well, I just wasted 30 seconds of my life.
Zimmondo wrote:Are people seriously positing that this new book is anything but loads better than the old one?
Zimmondo wrote:Sounds like you want to play dark elves
Zimmondo wrote:Bro not liking the magic phase and playing an elf army.......its kinda like disliking random elements and playing orcs
Oregonwoodelf wrote:How soon/where will your stuff be up for sale and how long until you delete your account here? This should be a place for WH players and WE/GW supporters.
If I see any more comments like these, there will be trouble.

Regardless of your own opinion of the new book, everyone has the right to express their views without being abused, ridiculed, harassed or insulted.

You've been warned.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
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Re: Pure whine

Post by irishfarmer »

I for one have this whine! I was proved wrong on my prediction that spites would still have a place in the new book in army building. Wrong!

Since we are whining and wishing in this thread, I put forward Spites as swarm units. I liked this idea when it was suggested in the rumor thread a while ago.

As for those who are upset that we have lost our "guerrilla" warfare nature, to me this book, imo, just screams that this play style is way more amped now than it was! Waywatchers and scouts! Waywatchers and scouts. And I think that the ambusher rule on the GR gives you that High Risk/Reward opportunity some of you are craving. :nod:
Track those crazy rumors and their rumor mongers!!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 48304.page
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Re: Pure whine

Post by Baardah »

As a former MOD on this forum I feel the need to back up Beithir Seun abit. As well as the OP I guess. For years and years this forum has remarked itself in the civility of its posters. One could be shure that regardless of what was asked or told, you could always count on a civil answer. In this thread I've seen posts that made me check the adress line in my browser to make shure warseer hasn't turned green.

So to the OP and others who have expressed disappointment for the new book: I'm sorry that you have had so many uncivil answers.
I applaud the OP's intention of the thread that he wanted encouragement and for inspiration to get over his disappointment and to regain the love for our beloved wood elves.
It's abit sad that he has mostly gotten ridicule instead.

To those who have answered in a proper way and actually tried to give the OP some glimmers of hope for what he perceives as a bad armybook. kudos.

And all: Listen to Beithir and we can all continue to enjoy a friendly forum with intelligent discussions around warhammer: wood elves

And just a question in the end. Have all you who dislike the book tried out some builds in a game? If so have you found that some dark predictions have been proven wrong? Now that would be something to inspire hope in other with the same prejudices.
My summer night wood elves
Drstrangelove wrote:Imagine a magic item. For 20 points you get +4M, Vanguard, extra +1 to your armour save, unlimited free reforms, and an extra S3 attack at I4.
That item would be in every list.

That item is a horse...
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