Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post ideas and develop rules or stats for whatever you want in here. Asrai units as well as other races

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Vote for the Winner

Poll ended at 19 Jun 2015, 17:17

Aezeal
2
29%
frogboy
0
No votes
Hyarion
3
43%
Blackcat
1
14%
NonnoSte
1
14%
 
Total votes: 7

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frogboy
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Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by frogboy »

Ok this is the thread to discuss all entry's to the Artisans Contest May 2015 found in the link below;
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=28725

I'll start by saying that I'm going to extent the competion for a week until next Friday the 5th of June. So far nobody has stepped up to Challange Aezeal and he will continue to have the Artisan's Champion Crown until someone else enters.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Disscussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

So my entry for the next contest is up.. as defender of the title I felt obliged to at least try and defend it. As you can see... it's another AWESOME entry.

Explanation:
The basis for everything is obviously the Great Stag (already a noble animal) but then the mythical variant: The White Hart from Lorens legends (as mentioned in our armybook under the Stag entry).
It gets +1 M, +1 WS, +1T +1I, +1 Ld to start with. It gets more wounds and attacks (both +3) since in this combined profile there are the ghostly wild riders too. (Giving it an extra +1 S (to S6) seemed to much).
Stat wise it could deserve to be a monster but a Monstrous Beast like the regular stag seems more fitting (easier for allowing to join a unit too).

It has the regular Impact hits, Forest Spirit and Forest Stalker Rules (I thought about D6 impact hits.. but didn´t want to over do it).
Instead of fear it gets Terror due to the fact it's bigger, meaner and somewhat spirit-y.
It gets striders since it's part ghostly (doubted about Ethereal but it seemed a little on the overpowered side to give such a huge statline that bonus so I settled on this). I thought about fast cav too (since that would be nice with a wild rider unit.. but the stag doesn't have it so I ended up keeping myself in control and ditched it again.

Kurnous' Tattoo's: Boosted Talismanic tattoo's.. but with the downside you cannot get any other armor or wardsave.
Essence of the Hunt: The Lord becomes a wild rider and has fitting abilities: frenzy, ItP, allowed to join the wildriders in a unit BUT cannot be the general anymore (seems logical since he's to busy being frenzied and hunting - I know Orion can do it.. but he's special :D)
Furious Charge: Boosted devastating charge (all the ghostly riders joining in, I thought about + D6 but that seemed a bit too much).

Balance and point costs:
6 wounds is a lot BUT compared to a Forest dragon you loose out on the 3 wounds of the character AND the S6 and T6 it has (which is significant but fitting, it stays on the S5 most of our army has as max).
Defensive: No real options to kit the lord out anymore: you are stuck with the 5++ BUT that isn't terrible since it's combined with a T5 now. 4++ would be better... but it's too good I think.
Offensive: the lord has 100 points for magic weapons and or enchanted items.
According to my fluff it could be riden by hero´s (glade captains) but considering the most important stats come from the beast (T, W and ward save) I think it would be a to cheap package so I'm not allowing that.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Ok I have entered so at least there will be some competition, where are all those writers of old who used to enter ?
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

Nice entry btw. Are those the regular pumpwagon stats or have you improved something? Do you play OnG btw?
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Thanks, no the're beefed up stats, tougher than a boar chariot too but with the random movement and other toys it's better, still might kill your General though (Too Pumped Up), don't play Warhammer anymore but I do have an Orc & Goblin Army WAAAAAGH! :D :thumbsup:
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

How does a character on a chariot work... I guess if you fight you use the characters T, W and WS... but what AS does the character get? the 3++ from the chariot? or a regular AS +1 for being mounted?
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Character uses his own profile and save, check out the rules on page 105 BRB.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Nice to see two more excellent entry's :thumbsup:
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

Yeah more entries and more good ones.

Well I'll discuss them/review them from my point of view hopefully to get a discussion started. Making use of the points given in the competition post and adding another for originality. Harsh and fair ofcourse.. except for my own entry which I will praise into the heavens.

Orc Forged Snotling Pump Warkart 100 Points
I really think it could fit the OnG book, it's ofc not very Original perse but using it like a chariot for a boss is still well thought of idea. I think the T7, 5W and the 3+ are pretty high considering we can't just slay the crew and be done with the whole thing like we could in the old days. WHile not completely reliable it's speed should be decent and the damage output is still pretty high and since it can't be destroyed easily it has a good chance of making it into combat and do damage might be the price is a bit lowish for that... especially since it can carry a full kitted Black Orc Warboss.

• Use of Language (is it professionally written?): 8/10
• Playability (are the rules streamlined?): 8/10
• Balance (are the rules and points fair and do they adhere to typical GW design?): 9/10
• Fun (do the rules make for a fun experience?): 9/10
• Lore (are the rules fluffy and do they fit the character of the theme?): 8/10
• Originality: 7/10

War Lion:
I don't have the HE book: are hyarion's special rules in some book already or completely self made (I like them a lot so if they are self made then I like the entry a lot - I've valued it like it was his idea, else he'd get a point lower on originality). I also think it would fit the HE book a lot. I don't really see why a BSB isn't allowed on it. Personally I think something as fierce as a lion would deserve being a mounstrous beast. Maybe a tad pricy compared to a stag which for a few points more gives the rider additional T (and even a W for hero's).

• Use of Language (is it professionally written?): 8/10
• Playability (are the rules streamlined?): 9/10
• Balance (are the rules and points fair and do they adhere to typical GW design?): 9/10
• Fun (do the rules make for a fun experience?): 7/10
• Lore (are the rules fluffy and do they fit the character of the theme?): 9/10
• Originality: 7/10


Monstrous Armoured Mole:
I like the whole idea of the Mole for the originality of it,so good points for originality. It also does fit the dwarven army well I think so good points for fluff (though the Lion fits the HE even better).
I don't really like the special rules on it as they are. I think moles would have been nice with some sort of burrowing (but hard as ridden monsters) or Entombed beneath the sands stuff instead of a regular ambush. Also a thing is written unclear (for me) since it's a mount and it gives 3+ AS (but doesn't specify if that stacks with anything.. usually Monstrous Cavalry mounts are not written like that I think, normally they say nothing (giving the regular +1 for being mounted) or a specific (usually) +2 AS for like boars and cold ones I think). It's also a bit overpriced I think (the M5 makes it of much more limited use as cavalry and it's other stats and special abiilties are all worse than a WE great stag yet it's higher priced).


• Use of Language (is it professionally written?): 7/10
• Playability (are the rules streamlined?): 8/10
• Balance (are the rules and points fair and do they adhere to typical GW design?): 7/10
• Fun (do the rules make for a fun experience?): 7/10
• Lore (are the rules fluffy and do they fit the character of the theme?): 8/10
• Originality: 8/10

Essence of the Hunt - The White Hart
Great entry, links into WE fluff on several levels (tying the White Hart and the Wild Hunt together and then mixing it up with spirits or forest spirits/spites) and fills a gap for wildrider characters. The special rules completely fit with the lore of this mount and the lore of WE army book. Quite a few special rules but nothing too complicated. When I look into the discussion why it was created like it was I can see a lot of time was put into trying to make it viable yet not overpowered and with a few drawbacks.
My main objection with it is the statline it has for a monstous beast and the very big base it's supposed to be on, both fitting a monster better maybe, then again it's centered around the White Hart and a stag is obviously a Monstrous Beast.

• Use of Language (is it professionally written?): 9/10
• Playability (are the rules streamlined?): 8/10
• Balance (are the rules and points fair and do they adhere to typical GW design?): 9/10
• Fun (do the rules make for a fun experience?): 9/10
• Lore (are the rules fluffy and do they fit the character of the theme?): 10/10
• Originality: 8/10

So based on that the:
Essence of the Hunt - The White Hart should be the winner.
The warkart and the Lion where next in my opinion and after giving the points it ended up with equal point for both entries so that makes it a definate tie for 2nd.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

I would rate Nonnoste's Goat about the same as the lion and the warkart. My only problem with it is the leaping thing... it doesn't make sense.. even a goat runs faster on regular terrain than on hills etc as far as I know. The fact it's not slowed down at all (or doesn't tumble if it keeps runnign there) is covered with the strider rule. The price might be right with 2 attacks at S4. (I do wonder why a goat would be S4 if horses aren't.. must be one hell of a goat do be stronger than a horse). S3 for a horse always impressed me a kinda low anyway... getting hit by the hooves of a charging horse could wel be a harder hit than getting hit by a 2 handed weapon (which would be S5).
I especially like the charge bonus for S... it's original.. but I think GW would probably just have given it +1 on the charge always.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by NonnoSte »

Yeah, the Str bonus for the charge would have absolutely been regular +1, but this way is funnier and it recalls the Ogre Charge special rule.

About Str4, I always thought Dwarves to be heavier then regual human, despite their size. So it makes sense to me that a Goat carrying an iron-dressed heavy dwarf should at least be as strong as a Steed of Isha (which, if you ask me, doesn't make sense for real).

I was also tempted to submnit an old idea of mines of a Giant Boar, a monstruous mount both for Wood Elves and Dwarves (there's even a miniature for both, I think Scibor produces it for dwarves)

So far, I like the most the Lion, even if it's almost copy pasted from GW Lion Chariots.
I always wanted to see them used as regular mounts, since I first saw the chariot stats.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

NonnoSte wrote:About Str4, I always thought Dwarves to be heavier then regual human, despite their size. So it makes sense to me that a Goat carrying an iron-dressed heavy dwarf should at least be as strong as a Steed of Isha (which, if you ask me, doesn't make sense for real).
Ok that is true.. another view would be that any animal smaller than a horse used as a mount is just not logical ;).

The fact the lion is copy pasted is a bit of a drawback.. on the otherhand there are some real original, inventive entries there... (did I say "some".. I just meant mine :D)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Hyarion »

The War Lion is *not* copy-pasted. The fluff is adapted, appropriately i believe, since GW was kind enough to provide me with a nice starting place. It is taken from the HE army book where it is presented as part of the Lion Chariot, and to that end I did take the stats that were presented there and added the rest to make it suitable as a mount. The rules and point cost are completely original.

Aezeal, to address one of your earlier comments, the decision to not make it a monstrous mount was intentional, because I felt it was powerful enough that to give it the added benefit of a monstrous mount's combined profile would be to make it too powerful (or to up the cost to at least 75 points, but balancing that was more work than I cared to do at 12:30am)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by NonnoSte »

Don't get me wrong Hyarion, I really like your entry and I would use it any day in a High Elves army.
Copypasted wasn't probably the best of the terms.
What I meant was that it's something already existing, wonderfully adapted to the concept we're seeking here. ;)

Something like an year and a half back (ie before the new book hit the shelves) I used those same lions to create a Panther Pack unit for our book.
I had added Hounds in core and Panthers in special which could be joined by Alters (Higborn Stats, but with M9, I9 and 5A).
I guess I have to dig those sheets out.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Hyarion »

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm glad you like it.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Last day tomorrow so get them entries submitted :)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by frogboy »

Ok so last night tonight, unfortunately I'll be asleep by the time 12 o'clock hits as I've got a tournament i'm going to this weekend and I need some sleep, so the voting thread won't be up until Monday...
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [Discussion Thread]

Post by Aezeal »

So anymore discussion needed here? Or is everyone just awaiting the vote. I'd personally like to hear some more views of people not competing in the contest instead of the only hearing the competitors bragging about their entry (I'm guilty) and/or defending it (also guilty).
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by frogboy »

Time to vote guys, vote for the winner, if you haven't seen the entry's then follow the link in the first post.

Thanks
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by Aezeal »

frogboy wrote:Time to vote guys, vote for the winner, if you haven't seen the entry's then follow the link in the first post.

Thanks
frogboy
Or just read my review ;)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by frogboy »

Aezeal wrote:
frogboy wrote:Time to vote guys, vote for the winner, if you haven't seen the entry's then follow the link in the first post.

Thanks
frogboy
Or just read my review ;)
Or just ignore Aezeal and make your own mind up
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by Aezeal »

That could be very exhausting Froggy, I'm just trying to make it easy for them ;)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by frogboy »

Needs more Cowbell (PLEASE VOTE)
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by Aezeal »

frogboy wrote:Needs more Cowbell (PLEASE VOTE)
True, 5 votes is hardly representative of the people coming here.
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Re: Artisan's Contest May 2015 [VOTING THREAD]

Post by Aezeal »

2 more days.. but I doubt there will be much more voters. 6 is minimal but at least there is a winner now, better than that tie we had at 5 votes :D
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