Wood Elves

Post ideas and develop rules or stats for whatever you want in here. Asrai units as well as other races

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Giladis
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Wood Elves

Post by Giladis »

As I am working and marshaling my ideas how to rewrite the High Elves book I have found out that doing the same for the Wood Elf book much easier and much more interesting. So I bring before you what I have done to try and bring the WE up to date and at the same time keep an army that is both balanced and has a strongly defined characterful theme.

This is the special rules and stats section. For the moment I have kept Sprites, Lore of Athel Loren, Kindreds and Magic Items alone, but am working on them(expect them over the next few days). I would also like your imput on what you think about this and if you are willing to playtest it for me. Cookies for those that do :wink:
ARMY WIDE SPECIAL RULES

Asrai Archery
Wood Elves do not suffer the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting.

Forest Walkers
All models in the Wood Elf army (including flyers using their flying movement) may ignore movement penalties for moving through woods.

Woodland Ambush
The Wood Elf player can place an extra wood (no larger than 6" in diameter) anywhere in his deployment zone.

Asrai Longbow
Range: 24" Strength: 4 Rules: none

Forest Spirit
- Non-Forest Spirts may not join a Forest Spirit unit or ride a Forest Spirit mount and vice versa. Treeman Ancient may never join units.

- Forest Spirits have Regeneration Special Rule

- All attacks by Forest Spirits count as magical.

- Forest Spirits are Immune to Psychology.

- At the begining of the Magic Phase unengaged multi-wound Forest Spirits completely inside a wood may atempt to regenrate one of the wounds they have previously lost on a roll of 5+.
LORDS

WOOD ELF HIGHBORN @ Points/model 150
M5 Ws7 Bs7 S4 T3 W3 I8 A4 Ld9

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow.

Options:
- AHW/GW (+6 pts), Spear (+3 pts).
- LA (+3 pts), SH (+3 pts).
- Elven Steed (+18 pts), Great Stag (+50 pts), Great Eagle (+50 pts), Forest Dragon (+320 pts)
- May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+50 pts).
- May choose magic items up to 100 pts.
- May choose Spites up to 50 pts.


SPELLWEAVER @ Points/model 220
M5 Ws4 Bs5 S3 T3 W3 I6 A1 Ld10

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow.

Magic: A Spellweaver is a level 3 Wizard. May choose spells from the Lore of Life, Beast, Light, Heavens and Athel Loren.

Options:
- May be upgraded to level 4 Wizard (+35 pts).
- Elven Steed (+18 pts), Great Eagle (+50 pts), Unicorn (+65 pts)
- May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+50 pts).
- May choose magic items up to 100 pts.
- May choose Spites up to 50 pts.


TREEMAN ANCIENT @ Points/model 400
M5 Ws6 Bs0 S6 T6 W7 I2 A5 Ld9

Options:
- May be a Wizard, at +50 points per level, up to level 3. It must use Lore of Athel Loren.
- May choose Spites up to 100 pts.

Special Rules: Forest Spirit, Scaly Skin (3+), Stubborn, Flammable, Terror, Large Target.

Tree Singing
As in current AB

Strengle-root Attack
As in current AB

Treewack
Treeman Ancient may reduce the number of Attacks it has up to the minimum of 1. For each attack point it reduces it may add one point to the Strength profile.(needs better wording but you get the point)


HEROES

WOOD ELF NOBLE @ Points/model 80
M5 Ws6 Bs7 S4 T3 W2 I7 A3 Ld8

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow.

Options:
- AHW/GW (+4 pts), Spear (+2 pts).
- LA (+2 pts), SH (+2 pts).
- Elven Steed (+12 pts), Great Stag (+50 pts), Great Eagle (+50 pts).
- May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+50 pts).
- May choose magic items up to 50 pts.
- May choose Spites up to 25 pts.
- May be BSB (+15 pts).


SPELLSINGER @ Points/model 100
M5 Ws4 Bs5 S3 T3 W2 I6 A1 Ld9

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow.

Magic: A Spellweaver is a level 1 Wizard. May choose spells from the Lore of Life and Athel Loren.

Options:
- May be upgraded to level 2 Wizard (+35 pts).
- Elven Steed (+12 pts), Great Eagle (+50 pts), Unicorn (+65 pts)
- May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+50 pts).
- May choose magic items up to 50 pts.
- May choose Sprites up to 25 pts.


BRANCHWRAITH @ Points/model 100
M6 Ws6 Bs0 S4 T4 W2 I8 A3 Ld8

Options:
- May be a Wizard, at +50 points per level, up to level 1. It must use Lore of Athel Loren.
- May choose Spites up to 50 pts.

Special Rules: Forest Spirit, Fear, Scaly Skin (5+)

Tree Singing
As in current AB (counts as Treeman)


CHARACTER MOUNTS

Elven Steed
M9 Ws3 Bs0 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld5
May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+10 pts)

Great Eagle
M2 Ws5 Bs0 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8
May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+15 pts)
Special Rules: Fly

Forest Dragon
M6 Ws6 Bs0 S6 T6 W6 I3 A5 Ld8
May be upgraded to a Forest Spirit (+50 pts)
Special Rules: Fly, Large Target, Terror, Scaly Skin

Poison Breath
Breath Weapon, Thoughness test, no Armour Save

Great Stag
M9 Ws5 Bs0 S5 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld7
Special Rules: Forest Spirit

Unicorn
M10 Ws4 Bs0 S4 T4 W1 I5 A2 Ld9
Special Rules: Forest Spirit, Magic Resistance (2)

Impale
As in current AB
CORE

GLADE GUARD @ Points/model 12
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld7
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8

Unit Size: 10-15

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow and Two Hand Weapon.

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+5 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+10 pts)
- May upgrade one to Standard Bearer (+10 pts)
- May carry a Magic Standard worth up to 25 pts.
- All the models in the unit may purchase the ability to Skirmish (+2pts/model).


GLADE RIDERS @ Points/model 24
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld7
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld8
M9 Ws3 Bs0 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld5

Unit Size: 5-10

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow and Spear.

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+7 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+14 pts)
- May upgrade one to Standard Bearer (+14 pts)
- May carry a Magic Standard worth up to 25 pts.

Special Rules: Fast Cavalry


ETERNAL GUARD @ Points/model 12
M5 Ws5 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld9
M5 Ws5 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I5 A2 Ld9

Units of Eternal Guard do not count towards the number of Core choices you must field unless a Highborn is the Army General.

Unit Size: 10-25

Weapons and Armour: Spear-staves.

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+6 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+12 pts)
- May upgrade one to Standard Bearer (+12 pts)
- May carry a Magic Standard worth up to 25 pts.
- All the models in the unit may purchase javelins (+2pts/model).

Special Rules: Immune to Fear

Eternal Guard Fighting Style
As in current AB

Bodyguards
As in current AB


DRYADS @ Points/model 18
M6 Ws4 Bs0 S4 T4 W1 I6 A2 Ld8
M6 Ws4 Bs0 S4 T4 W1 I6 A3 Ld8

Units of Dryads do not count towards the number of Core choices you must field unless a Treeman Ancient is the Army General.

Unit Size: 5-20

Options:
- May upgrade one to Champion (+12 pts)
- May choose Spites up to 25 pts.

Special Rules: Forest Spirits, Fear, Skirmish, Scaly Skin (5+)
SPECIAL

WARDANCERS @ Points/model 18
M6 Ws6 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A2 Ld8
M6 Ws6 Bs4 S3 T3 W1 I6 A3 Ld8

Unit Size: 5-15

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+7 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+14 pts)

Special Rules: Immune to Psychology, Skirmish

Shadow Dances of Loec
As in current AB

Talismanic Tatoos
As in current AB

Wardancer Weapons
As in current AB


WARHAWK RIDERS @ Points/model 40
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W2 I5 A1 Ld7
M5 Ws4 Bs4 S3 T3 W2 I5 A1 Ld8
M1 Ws4 Bs0 S4 T3 W- I5 A1 Ld5

Unit Size: 3-10

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow and Spear.

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+7 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+14 pts)

Special Rules: Flying Cavalry, Scout

Hit and Run
As in current AB


WILD RIDER OF KURNOUS @ Points/model 28
M5 Ws5 Bs4 S4 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld9
M5 Ws5 Bs4 S4 T3 W1 I5 A2 Ld9
M9 Ws3 Bs0 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld5

Unit Size: 5-15

Weapons and Armour: Spear and javelin.

Options:
- May upgrade one to Musician (+9 pts)
- May upgrade one to Champion (+18 pts)
- May choose Spites up to 25 pts.
- May upgrade one to Standard Bearer (+18 pts)
- May carry a Magic Standard worth up to 50 pts.

Special Rules: Fast Cavalry, Forest Spirits, Fear

Talismanic Tatoos
As in current AB

The Wild Hunt
+1 to hit on the charge for the riders

The Fury of Kurnous
As in current AB


TREE KIN @ Points/model 75
M5 Ws4 Bs0 S5 T5 W4 I4 A4 Ld8
M5 Ws5 Bs0 S5 T5 W4 I4 A4 Ld8

Unit Size: 3-10

Options:
- May upgrade one to Champion (+10 pts)
- May chose Spites up to 25 pts.

Special Rules: Forest Spirits, Scaly Skin (4+), Flammable, Fear

Strengle-root Attack
As in current AB (one per unit, not model)
RARE

WAYWATCHERS @ Points/model 25
M5 Ws4 Bs5 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld9
M5 Ws4 Bs6 S3 T3 W1 I5 A1 Ld9

Unit Size: 5-10

Weapons and Armour: Asrai Longbow and Two Hand Weapons

Options:
- May upgrade one to Champion (+5 pts)
-All the models in the unit may be upgraded into Forest Spirits (+15pts/model).

Special Rules: Skirmish

Forest Stalkers
As in current AB

Lethal Shot
When shooting at short range, Waywatchers have Killing Blow Special Rule.

Out of Shadows
If a Waywatcher unit charges from a wood, the enemy can only Hold as a charge reaction and the Waywatchers get +1A in the first round of combat.


TREEMAN @ Point/model 300
M5 Ws5 Bs0 S6 T6 W6 I3 A5 Ld8

Special Rules: Forest Spirit, Scaly Skin (3+), Stubborn, Flammable, Terror, Large Target.

Tree Singing
As in current AB

Strengle-root Attack
As in current AB

Treewack
Treeman Ancient may reduce the number of Attacks it has up to the minimum of 1. For each attack point it reduces it may add one point to the Strength profile.(needs better wording but you get the point)


GREAT EAGLE @ Points/model 50

M2 Ws5 Bs0 S4 T4 W3 I4 A2 Ld8

You may include 2 Great Eagles as a single Rare choice.

Special Rules: Fly
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Herald
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Herald »

Wow. That's a lot of good ideas, some fixing things that don't work out too well (anymore), others that I see changing more fundamental straregies. Way too much to comment on it all, but this could indeed be something to playtest. ;)

- Generals: Giving the spellsingers the greatest leadership is a nice twist to this army, particularly since we already have a tradition for Caddie generals! :D Generally dropping Ld on the 'conscript' elves is kind of fluffy, making them 'wilder'. On the other hand anarchism is all about organizing... :)

- Glade guard will change behaviour. 24" str 4 bows make them more trad super archers, and with skirmishing (yes, please, but why would anyone choose to rank up, then??) very flexible. Streamlined rules. Interesting to give them two hwp, but feels a bit 'power-creepy'. 24" range will see a lot more casualties from return fire. Also you make champions pretty mandatory with Ld increase, which is allright, and another little weakness.

- Glade riders. Here the same changes are not so good, IMO. You don't want an expensive baiting unit w Ld7, and a champion is really nought but problems for this unit, AFAIK. In addition, str 4 bows from horseback? How do they do it? I would give them regular str 3 longbows (along w hawkriders), and a points drop.

- Eternal guard as non counting core is a good solution. Max USize 25, is that the kosher way these days? Sure makes Deathstars less tempting. They still have the same issues as before, though: they are bodyguards, but can't do anything to keep their charge safe, and when he dies they are no longer stubborn. They need a boost, the right magic banner might fix that (ASF, Ward). Love the javelins by the way, original, fluffy (except where do they keep them?) and should work.

- Dryads/FS: Woah. 18 pts? They may be underprized now, so maybe. No more cannon fodder for the WE? They are pretty resilient, though. Less versatile but better anvils, I would still field 3 slightly more expensive units. Making them non counting core as well, does it serve a purpose? Spites can be fun!
Now, regeneration for FS is a much suggested and good thing IMO. The question is how it works out for characters, a bit early to say, and for TK and TM: Because flaming attacks now Reaally mess them up!

- Wardancers need at least an ASF dance during which they don't loose an attack. ;)

- Wild riders have gotten that little twist they need: slightly more killing power on the charge, and improved survivability.
Any reason NOT to take at least two of these? :sexy:

- Hawkriders have the same champ problem as GR, only more so. Being the prime unit in an AMD, it really sucks to have to put a champion with them.

- Treekins biggest problem today is prize and lack of manouverability, making them slightly more durable for a higher cost does not make them more popular with me, at least...

- Treewack! Very popular and needed. :D But a TM now parked in the free wood w regeneration will be extremely hard to take down without fire.

- Eagles 0-2, cool!

- WW Ld9 + s4, yes, please.

Overall I like most of your suggestions. Most troops have gotten a slight boost, but also an overall points increase. This could be a good thing though, weakening WE at low points, but too much elite troops also mess with our ability to surrender an enemy, which is not good for my playstyle, anyway.

Monstrous mounts taken down to one wound, but keeping their costs? For a unicorn you would have to pay 115 pts (mount+FS)!! Granted, you get regeneration in the bargain, but with everything else becoming more expensive, how are you supposed to afford the exciting characters?

My humble and immediate response. Looking forward to the rest. :cool:
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Giladis
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Giladis »

To answer the points raised.
Herald wrote:Wow. That's a lot of good ideas, some fixing things that don't work out too well (anymore), others that I see changing more fundamental straregies. Way too much to comment on it all, but this could indeed be something to playtest. ;)

- Generals: Giving the spellsingers the greatest leadership is a nice twist to this army, particularly since we already have a tradition for Caddie generals! :D Generally dropping Ld on the 'conscript' elves is kind of fluffy, making them 'wilder'. On the other hand anarchism is all about organizing... :)
That is the exactly the thing I was aiming for, to show their more wilder side and that they though each perfectly self sustaining in the wild
need a leader to keep them togather during a battle.
Herald wrote:- Glade guard will change behaviour. 24" str 4 bows make them more trad super archers, and with skirmishing (yes, please, but why would anyone choose to rank up, then??) very flexible. Streamlined rules. Interesting to give them two hwp, but feels a bit 'power-creepy'. 24" range will see a lot more casualties from return fire. Also you make champions pretty mandatory with Ld increase, which is allright, and another little weakness.
I am not 100% set on their price. I will need playtesting to get that right. The ranked unit is when someone is low on points and just can't aford to may 140 pts for 10 T3 models with no armour.
Herald wrote:- Glade riders. Here the same changes are not so good, IMO. You don't want an expensive baiting unit w Ld7, and a champion is really nought but problems for this unit, AFAIK. In addition, str 4 bows from horseback? How do they do it? I would give them regular str 3 longbows (along w hawkriders), and a points drop.
Have you ever seen this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi ) being shoot? Non related to the Yumi, I was thinking along the lines, they are elves, they magicaly strenghten their bows, bla, bla, magic, bla, fey, bla super bows :ninja:
The whole point about Ld7 is to ephasise that elves are a small elite army that regard each unit with care. So yes if you want the same bait and flee unit as now you will have to pay 21 pts more which at 141 is still not much and you get the benefit of stronger shooting than before, so I think it is a fair trade.
Herald wrote:- Eternal guard as non counting core is a good solution. Max USize 25, is that the kosher way these days? Sure makes Deathstars less tempting. They still have the same issues as before, though: they are bodyguards, but can't do anything to keep their charge safe, and when he dies they are no longer stubborn. They need a boost, the right magic banner might fix that (ASF, Ward). Love the javelins by the way, original, fluffy (except where do they keep them?) and should work.
I gave them ItF in order to try and boost them up a bit because I do not want to make them to similar to either White Lions or Hammerers. But I am open to changes if they will be needed to make the unit a viable choice.
Herald wrote:- Dryads/FS: Woah. 18 pts? They may be underprized now, so maybe. No more cannon fodder for the WE? They are pretty resilient, though. Less versatile but better anvils, I would still field 3 slightly more expensive units. Making them non counting core as well, does it serve a purpose? Spites can be fun!
Now, regeneration for FS is a much suggested and good thing IMO. The question is how it works out for characters, a bit early to say, and for TK and TM: Because flaming attacks now Reaally mess them up!
I like the 5th ed background a bit more than the current one and tried to show it here. A solid core of elves supported by Forest Spirits unless the army itself is commanded by the Big Tree. I have been thinking to give the TA and TM a 5+ ward on top of the Regeneration, but am afraid that could be a bit much, though I have some Spites in mind to deal with this problem you mention. On the subject of Dryads again. Have you noticed they gained M6 and 5+ scaly skin(as did the Brainchwraith)? Also have you noticed FS now have 1/3 chance of regenrating thier wounds while in a wood?
Herald wrote:- Wardancers need at least an ASF dance during which they don't loose an attack. ;)
I don't think they need it. Two ASF attacks are plenty.
Herald wrote:- Wild riders have gotten that little twist they need: slightly more killing power on the charge, and improved survivability.
Any reason NOT to take at least two of these? :sexy:
So you suggest a points increase? I would keep them as they are for now, but if playtesting proves they need to become more expensive that will be done.
Herald wrote:- Hawkriders have the same champ problem as GR, only more so. Being the prime unit in an AMD, it really sucks to have to put a champion with them.
I see these guys as really rogue element among the Asrai and their ability now to fly through woods and scout and flyout on the first turn needs to have some weakness to counter it. Otherwise they would be to good.
Herald wrote:- Treekins biggest problem today is prize and lack of manouverability, making them slightly more durable for a higher cost does not make them more popular with me, at least...
I thinking about this unit was that it is the only real anvil unit in the army and that it should function as one. Other units would have to bring foes to them rather than Treekin chasing enemies across the board. Yet M5, ability to go through woods and movement spells can still propel this unit forward much faster than most similar units. At the same time Strangle-root will give them something to do while not in combat.
Herald wrote:- Treewack! Very popular and needed. :D But a TM now parked in the free wood w regeneration will be extremely hard to take down without fire.
Isn't that what is expected? :D

Herald wrote:Overall I like most of your suggestions. Most troops have gotten a slight boost, but also an overall points increase. This could be a good thing though, weakening WE at low points, but too much elite troops also mess with our ability to surrender an enemy, which is not good for my playstyle, anyway.

Monstrous mounts taken down to one wound, but keeping their costs? For a unicorn you would have to pay 115 pts (mount+FS)!! Granted, you get regeneration in the bargain, but with everything else becoming more expensive, how are you supposed to afford the exciting characters?

My humble and immediate response. Looking forward to the rest. :cool:
I have never seen WE as an army that can actually encircle the enemy, but rather to achieve local superiority through their superior movement and terain alteration.

Are you saying MM should be cheaper or more expensive?


Thanks on the reply.

Cheers
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Herald
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Herald »

Ok, I tried setting up a list that suits my current style of play, 'the wolf pack' (MSU). So I chose mostly the cheapest options available for their jobs (although there is quite some cross over.):

3x10 GG w skirmish, ch, mus 435 pts
3x7 DR 378 pts
2x6 WR w std, mus, (1 WB) 415 pts
7 WD w mus 133 pts
2 GE 150 pts

1465 pts, leaving 535 for 2k characters and fun. Pardon if the math is totally off :roll: No armybuilder here...
Actually, this looks pretty mean to me, even though the model count is low (73). GG send their volleys from a safe distance (24"), also having a reserve role for combat. In front/rear of the archers, dryads and WD will guard the middle, now able to cover even more ground thanks to M6 :sexy: On the flanks, WR+DR+GE. These three units together will cause trouble for anyone, with DR being so tough that they are a decent anvil.
What do I want to add? More archers!! 50 S4 shots from skirmishing units that can actually intimidate quite a few in CC as well. That would be so cheezy... Add plenty of cheap marchblockers, and dryads that refuse to die between you and the archers, and all I need is a few scrolls, and I'm good to go. The rest of the options just seem too expensive in comparison. TM? Maybe, if I'm not having 4 eagles! WW? Nah, more GG! Warhawks? Nah, more GG or eagle. TK? Swap for 7 dryads if I can afford it. GR? Nah, WR, GE or more GG.
To sum it up: GG, DR and WR seem maybe too good, but raising their costs more only excludes the others further. My 2 cents...
Giladis wrote:That is the exactly the thing I was aiming for, to show their more wilder side and that they though each perfectly self sustaining in the wild
need a leader to keep them togather during a battle.
:nod:
Giladis wrote:I gave them ItF in order to try and boost them up a bit because I do not want to make them to similar to either White Lions or Hammerers. But I am open to changes if they will be needed to make the unit a viable choice.

And that's tricky with an infantry unit, in today's game, w S3, T3 and no real armour. Powercreep... :paranoid:
Giladis wrote:Have you ever seen this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi ) being shoot? Non related to the Yumi, I was thinking along the lines, they are elves, they magicaly strenghten their bows, bla, bla, magic, bla, fey, bla super bows :ninja:
Indeed, and Wiki reports claims that the Yumi was designed for use from horseback!?! :eek: Ok, I give up on that one! :D
Giladis wrote:Also have you noticed FS now have 1/3 chance of regenrating thier wounds while in a wood?
Lovely! And just not reliable enough to be counted on (which is good).
Giladis wrote:I don't think they need it. Two ASF attacks are plenty.

WD have to forfeit 1 attack to get the ASF.
Giladis wrote:I see these guys as really rogue element among the Asrai and their ability now to fly through woods and scout and flyout on the first turn needs to have some weakness to counter it. Otherwise they would be to good.
Damn, I overlooked that! Interesting... How about fleeing through woods? No problem for either hawks nor eagles?
Giladis wrote:Are you saying MM should be cheaper or more expensive?
I was thinking cheaper, because they don't contribute with any wounds, but I'm not sure. Wood elves need all the beasts they can get, IMO.

Keep up the good work, I need some sleep! ;)
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Giladis
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Giladis »

When I was writing this I was really torn between making Asrai Longbows either range 20" or 24" and for the moment decided 24".

535 pts left for character and fun is not much. That will be a noble+maybe 2 spellsinger. I think you would have to drop some of those units to take a decent character set up.

I think you have over looked that WD now have 2A base.

Great Eagles, Warhawks, Forest Dragons can fly flee through woods.

Considering that oponents can no longer shoot the Great Stag or Unicor brom beneath you and that they have recieved a combat boost I think their points are fine.
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Ikhoornix »

Let me start off by saying that I like your tweaks very much.
I especially like the reduced leadership to make the units more feral and the fact that casters have the higher leader ship out of the characters.
I also like the rules making the EG and Dryads not count for core choices unless you take the appropriate lord.

One Idea I have been toying with for Asrai longbow is to make them similar to the rapid fire rule in 40K.

When the unit did not move it may: Shoot once at S4 at long range or twice with S4 at short range. (This is to reflect that the unit took the time to aim and steady for the long range shot or the volley)
When the unit has moved it may shoot once with S3 at long range, or twice with S3 at short range (This is to reflect the unit taking potshots while moving around the battle field)
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by KalTaron »

I like some of your ideas very much. And will shamelessly borrow them for my own list. :ninja:
Now a few points.

- I like the Ld stat swap. Instantly makes mages a good idea without giving them more rules or making them less expensive, but the price hike on the hero mages may be a bit much. I still think they deserve a special rule to help with the PD arms race some lists can force you into. The mundane chars may be overcosted without their leadership boost. Esp. the lord isn't that impressive to justify even more points. BS7 is nice but next to meaningless and a bit much IMO for the hero. Not that it really matters though.

- Regen for Forest Spirits is a bit much. A 4+ kind of ward save is huge. Esp. as you allow it for all the mounts as well. I prefer the Regen on 5+ solution.

- You buffed two units that don't need it IMO. OK, you also made Dryads more expensive so that may be OK. Wardancers are a bit over the top though. +1 A and +1M for a unit that was pretty good to start with. Their dances need a bit of work but otherwise I'm happy with them as they are.

- Interesting idea for the Asrai bow. Personally I prefer to incorporate S4 at short range into the Asrai archery rule. This has the advantage that we can give some units different bows. (Like only bows instead of long bows for Wild Riders and Scouts.)

- I don't think that unlimited skirmishing core archers with S4 bows are a good idea. This will make playing against Asrai even more frustrating for some armies. I also don't think that they really need two hand weapons. Why has the champ no stat increase on BS or A? And that for 10pts. I mean he only gives you the standard Ld8 of elves.

Guess I'll borrow your leadership changes and then post my own list. Still some good ideas.
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Herald
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Herald »

Giladis wrote:I think you have over looked that WD now have 2A base.
Indeed! :sexy: While that is good for internal balance, and the dancers reputation, they will also be another maybe too good unit. 20 pts?

What I really like about this concept is how the little details together constructs a WE army that would play very differently, and pretty accurately how you see them (as far as I can tell...).
Just post the magic items when they're ready, and let us see the whole picture! ;)
kingtiger_501
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by kingtiger_501 »

I believe that most of the special rules can and should be eliminated with some simple stats adjustments.

Example...
wardancers get strength 4 and get rid of the extra rules
treeman 1 strength 10 attack that does d6 wounds and he can use its root attack in combat.
Remove flameable, too much of it in the game and its effect bypassing the save is enough. Have you ever tried to start a fire with wet wood?
Army special rule, wood elves never suffer a negitave to hit.

These are some basic changes that steamline the rules that have little impact on the game.
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by unicorn »

kingtiger_501 wrote:Have you ever tried to start a fire with wet wood?
You did, that you are speaking about it so easily? ;)
Army special rule, wood elves never suffer a negitave to hit.
Always hitting on 3+. Cool. Shame that the people here are trying to create at least somehow balanced stuff ;)
These are some basic changes that steamline the rules that have little impact on the game.
You really think? :paranoid:
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kingtiger_501
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by kingtiger_501 »

unicorn wrote:
kingtiger_501 wrote:Have you ever tried to start a fire with wet wood?
You did, that you are speaking about it so easily? ;)

Dont get confused when someone is asking a question, it is not a statement.
Army special rule, wood elves never suffer a negitave to hit.
Always hitting on 3+. Cool. Shame that the people here are trying to create at least somehow balanced stuff ;)

I can see how well the game is being balanced, anyone up for a game against daemons?

These are some basic changes that steamline the rules that have little impact on the game.
You really think? :paranoid:
No, I just posted for shits and gigles.
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

Some good ideas here. Let's keep this civil and on-topic please.
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Joelatron
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Re: Wood Elves

Post by Joelatron »

good ideas, however:

why has everything increased in points? The trend of 7th ed is to make things cheaper (esp big monsters). As your list stands, waywatchers, treekin, especially Treeman ancient, dryads and branchwraiths, wildriders, and treeman are too expensive.
I see their points either staying the same or decreasing (Especially the treeman who I see dropping in points to 230/250 in light of cost of current rare monsters).

This effectively makes wood elf armies smaller than they currently are.

though I like the idea of forest spirits having regen. Maybe a 5+ regen save would be a good idea, increased to 4+ for treeman/treeman ancient. There is a 5+ regen save in the Empire book-the grand theoginist has one.

+ where have the kindreds gone? The coolest thing about woodelves is the kindreds.

+ why the ld 7? elves are ld8 standard. It is what separates us from the humans and the greenskin!

limiting the size of eternal guard to 25 seems curious. As the are, they are a dubious choice for many + the rhymer's harp is only worth its points if unit is 30+. I have had many discussion on eternal guard, and my conclusion is that they give EG kindred characters lookout sir! in combat outside of challenges, always fight in 2 ranks and get and +1s first round of combat. Stay as a special choice unless led by a highborn, and only stubborn if have a EG kindred character (kindred rule changed to allow for mundane and magic weapons/armour and opened up to bsb + goes up to 15/25pt upgrade) and they become viable. Add some EG only magic weapons ("dueling stave" etc) and EG become a cool unit that fit the army.
maybe the addition of a special character that makes eternal guard even better (maybe one unit becomes unbreakable) would also be a good move.

THough what I like:

upping wardancer base attacks to 2. = with weapons get 3 attacks.= 4 with extra attack dance, or 2 with ASF = viable dance and can now actually do something vs high elf units. + it brings wardancers into 7th ed. yay

unicorn.stag down to 1 wound normal mounts brings them in line with 7th ed mounts.

long bow s4 yay-but shorter range??? = will get completely destroyed by dark elf shooting.

forest spirits regenerating in the woods. I really like the concept, but maybe if in wood the regen save is increased by 1 (so with my suggestion , dryads, wildriders, treekin get a 4+, branchwraith, treeman/ancient get a 3+)

treeman ancient's being able to purchase magic levels. This is awesome, but when treeman is base 400 points + spites = becoming a huge investment of points for a model who has regen and flammable. With the current regen monster focus, TMA is one sitting duck to all the flame attacks out there. VC flaming lance, EOTG...ouch. very, very, very over priced.

Glade guard being able to skirmish. Good idea.
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