ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
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- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
Wood Elves List
Total: 2600pts (sorry, didn’t see it changed to 2500 from draft 1)
Lords (561pts)
Highborn (561pts)
Armour of Silvered Steel, Forest Dragon, Great weapon, Stone of the Crystal Mere, The Other Trickster's Shard
Heroes (644pts)
Noble (181pts)
Armour of Destiny, Great Eagle, Great weapon, Shield
Noble (187pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Elven Steed, Potion of Strength, Stone of Rebirth, Wild Rider
Noble (126pts)
Additional hand weapon, Hail of Doom Arrow, Light armour, Scout Kindred
Spellsinger (150pts)
Dispel Scroll, Wizard level 2 (Lore of Shadow)
Core (730pts)
8x Dryads (96pts)
3x (12x Glade Guard with musician) (3x150pts)
13x Glade Guard (184pts)
Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, Standard Bearer
Special (445pts)
14x Wild Riders of Kurnous (445pts)
Musician, Razor Standard, Standard Bearer, Wildhunter
Rare (220pts)
2x Great Eagles
5x Waywatchers (120pts)
Spells: Rolled pit of shadows and enfeebling foe, changed enfeebling foe for miasma
Dwarfs list
Runesmith – general, +1 toughness, +1W, 1+ armor save
Runesmith – Ring of firebreath
Thane – BSB, 1+ armor save
Master Engineer
20 quarrelers – crossbow, great weapon, banner
20 quarrelers – crossbow, great weapon
Around 15 thunderers – guns
25 hammerers – great weapon, full command, slowness banner
2x gyrocopters with steamguns and bombs
Grudge thrower with +1 strength and reroll scatter dice
Cannon with reroll artillery dice
Organ gun
5 rangers – crossbow, throwing axes, great weapon, scouts
Deployment
We were playing blood and glory, both of us had fortitude 5 (breaking gives 750pts to opponent). He started by deploying all his war machines followed by quarrelers. I quickly realized he would castle in the right side. In turn I answered by refusing his flank, but I noticed too late that my right eagle was 1” too far ahead so that he could shoot it with crossbows on first turn. His cannon was my main target, so wild riders and spellsinger deployed close to it. Hid dragon behind eagle noble, if he got first turn he would shoot through the eagle noble giving me another chance to stop the cannonball.
Terrain is walls, normal hill, normal building, mysterious river, khemrian quicksand and two wild woods. In the left wood is an arcane ruin, but I don’t get to use it much since I have to move closer to him.
Wood Elves Turn 1
I don’t think to charge my BSB at his cannon, but I am confident that my shooting can take out the gyrocopter so I move wild riders just next to the building. I wanted to charge the gyrocopter with my eagle noble, but he said it could stand and shoot with steam gun which would hit my wild riders again. Dragon hide behind the fence and two glade guard move into range of the gyrocopter. The waywatchers move into range of the organ gun. Dryads actually leave forest, but I forgot to include it. I try to miasma his master engineers BS, but he dispels it. I then get off a pit of shades on his cannon, he decides not to scroll (rune?) it and fails to dispel it. Shooting only manages two wounds on the gyrocopter. I roll 13 on my hail of doom aroow and the organ gets taken off (he forgot about entrenchment, first time with the new book).
Dwarfs Turn 2
His master engineer runs for the grudge thrower. Gyrocopter moves to steam my glade guard. Most other units have to move, as they are out of range. Rangers kill a glade guard and the steam takes out 5. Grudge thrower misfires and can’t shoot this turn.
Wood Elves Turn 2
Eagle noble charges rangers, takes no damage on stand and shoot. Everything else moves out of range of the grudge thrower and into range of the gyrocopter if possible. The mage leaves the unit, can’t remember where she goes but the point is to get her closer to the hammerers for pit of shades. The gyrocopter gets shot and the rangers are killed with no damage in return.
Dwarfs Turn 3
Moves engineer to the grudge thrower. Rest moves up a bit, I realize I left GG4 in range of grudge thrower after all. He rolls a misfire, rerolls and rolls another misfire and promptly rolls a 1 so that the grudge thrower dies. That’s bad luck, but let’s face it, if it didn’t die I would have just stayed out of range as I was ahead on points.
Wood Elves Turn 3
As it is a friendly game, I decide to get into combat with him after all. I move my wild riders up for a flank charge and the dragon for a frontal charge. Spellsinger moves into pit range of hammerers. GG4 fails a swift reform, so dryads runs in to screen them from crossbows and rifles. I try to miasma BS of Q2 but it is dispelled, he runes pit on the hammerers. Darnit.
Dwarfs Turn 4
He reforms the hammerers to put both wild riders and dragon on the front. Thunderers move up. Dragon and highborn save all damage from crossbow, and I think he doesn’t kill any dryads. The gyrocopter hits 10 wild riders, but somehow I manage to save all the wounds.
Wood Elves Turn 4
Instead of waiting another turn and make sure my wild riders can get the flank, I just charge both dragon and wild riders to the front. I also used the potion of strength. Dragon needs a roll of 5, and he declares he has the slowness banner. I only roll 4 on swiftstride, so I fail no matter what. Eagle noble moves to threaten shooters and GG4 + dryads move away though I forgot to include it. Miasma is dispelled again, so I try a big pit on Q2 to save my dragon from some bolts. It goes off irresistibly, dimensional cascade removes a lot of glade guards and the spellsinger is sucked into the void. He does okay on his inititiative test, but still lose 12 quarrelers or so. It was too early to use the potion I suppose, but at least I make the first break test with some expected losses. Very surprised at the durability of his runesmith, was hoping to break his fortitude by killing him here.
Dwarfs Turn 5
Gyro tries to bomb my eagle noble, but I save all of it. In combat it doesn’t look good, only BSB and champion are left. They pass their break test on a 5, which is quite lucky. They did have rerollable 10 as a base, but still.
Wood Elves Turn 5
The dragon makes its charge and the eagle noble charges the quarrelers with the runesmith. I lose my last wild rider, but kills all except one hammerer and his characters. The one hammerer makes the unit stubborn, so he stays! Eagle noble does 1 wound to his other runesmith, and he declares his breath attack. I take 10 hits and end up taking 2 wounds. He reforms to face.
Dwarfs turn 6
He challenges with his runesmith general, but I decide to take it with the bsb to make sure I kill all of the hammeres and the BSB to break him and get points for the unit. Probably would have been better to take it with the dragon, then I could most likely have killed them all to a man (dwarf). His bsb and last hammerer dies, which breaks his fortitude. He rolls the break test and passes. Eagle noble kills the runesmith but is killed in return (barely).
Wood Elves Turn 6
Only the runesmith is left in close combat, but he survives. He gives a single wound to my bsb, but I pass the 2++ ward even though I have to reroll it because of the dragon. He passes his break test again.
In the end it’s a 20-0 win to me.
Thoughts
My opponent was new to the book, so missed a few things. I think he was wrong to castle in the corner. If castling up, it would have been better to take the center so that I had no place to hide and had to go to him, plus he could protect his cannon better. We talked about the new options for vanguarding, so he will probably try that out next time.
I was very happy with shadow, I would cast miasma on 2-3 dice and force him to consider if he wanted to use dice to dispel it or not. If he let it go, I could either end my phase or try for the irresistible force.
Total: 2600pts (sorry, didn’t see it changed to 2500 from draft 1)
Lords (561pts)
Highborn (561pts)
Armour of Silvered Steel, Forest Dragon, Great weapon, Stone of the Crystal Mere, The Other Trickster's Shard
Heroes (644pts)
Noble (181pts)
Armour of Destiny, Great Eagle, Great weapon, Shield
Noble (187pts)
Battle Standard Bearer, Elven Steed, Potion of Strength, Stone of Rebirth, Wild Rider
Noble (126pts)
Additional hand weapon, Hail of Doom Arrow, Light armour, Scout Kindred
Spellsinger (150pts)
Dispel Scroll, Wizard level 2 (Lore of Shadow)
Core (730pts)
8x Dryads (96pts)
3x (12x Glade Guard with musician) (3x150pts)
13x Glade Guard (184pts)
Banner of Eternal Flame, Musician, Standard Bearer
Special (445pts)
14x Wild Riders of Kurnous (445pts)
Musician, Razor Standard, Standard Bearer, Wildhunter
Rare (220pts)
2x Great Eagles
5x Waywatchers (120pts)
Spells: Rolled pit of shadows and enfeebling foe, changed enfeebling foe for miasma
Dwarfs list
Runesmith – general, +1 toughness, +1W, 1+ armor save
Runesmith – Ring of firebreath
Thane – BSB, 1+ armor save
Master Engineer
20 quarrelers – crossbow, great weapon, banner
20 quarrelers – crossbow, great weapon
Around 15 thunderers – guns
25 hammerers – great weapon, full command, slowness banner
2x gyrocopters with steamguns and bombs
Grudge thrower with +1 strength and reroll scatter dice
Cannon with reroll artillery dice
Organ gun
5 rangers – crossbow, throwing axes, great weapon, scouts
Deployment
We were playing blood and glory, both of us had fortitude 5 (breaking gives 750pts to opponent). He started by deploying all his war machines followed by quarrelers. I quickly realized he would castle in the right side. In turn I answered by refusing his flank, but I noticed too late that my right eagle was 1” too far ahead so that he could shoot it with crossbows on first turn. His cannon was my main target, so wild riders and spellsinger deployed close to it. Hid dragon behind eagle noble, if he got first turn he would shoot through the eagle noble giving me another chance to stop the cannonball.
Terrain is walls, normal hill, normal building, mysterious river, khemrian quicksand and two wild woods. In the left wood is an arcane ruin, but I don’t get to use it much since I have to move closer to him.
Wood Elves Turn 1
I don’t think to charge my BSB at his cannon, but I am confident that my shooting can take out the gyrocopter so I move wild riders just next to the building. I wanted to charge the gyrocopter with my eagle noble, but he said it could stand and shoot with steam gun which would hit my wild riders again. Dragon hide behind the fence and two glade guard move into range of the gyrocopter. The waywatchers move into range of the organ gun. Dryads actually leave forest, but I forgot to include it. I try to miasma his master engineers BS, but he dispels it. I then get off a pit of shades on his cannon, he decides not to scroll (rune?) it and fails to dispel it. Shooting only manages two wounds on the gyrocopter. I roll 13 on my hail of doom aroow and the organ gets taken off (he forgot about entrenchment, first time with the new book).
Dwarfs Turn 2
His master engineer runs for the grudge thrower. Gyrocopter moves to steam my glade guard. Most other units have to move, as they are out of range. Rangers kill a glade guard and the steam takes out 5. Grudge thrower misfires and can’t shoot this turn.
Wood Elves Turn 2
Eagle noble charges rangers, takes no damage on stand and shoot. Everything else moves out of range of the grudge thrower and into range of the gyrocopter if possible. The mage leaves the unit, can’t remember where she goes but the point is to get her closer to the hammerers for pit of shades. The gyrocopter gets shot and the rangers are killed with no damage in return.
Dwarfs Turn 3
Moves engineer to the grudge thrower. Rest moves up a bit, I realize I left GG4 in range of grudge thrower after all. He rolls a misfire, rerolls and rolls another misfire and promptly rolls a 1 so that the grudge thrower dies. That’s bad luck, but let’s face it, if it didn’t die I would have just stayed out of range as I was ahead on points.
Wood Elves Turn 3
As it is a friendly game, I decide to get into combat with him after all. I move my wild riders up for a flank charge and the dragon for a frontal charge. Spellsinger moves into pit range of hammerers. GG4 fails a swift reform, so dryads runs in to screen them from crossbows and rifles. I try to miasma BS of Q2 but it is dispelled, he runes pit on the hammerers. Darnit.
Dwarfs Turn 4
He reforms the hammerers to put both wild riders and dragon on the front. Thunderers move up. Dragon and highborn save all damage from crossbow, and I think he doesn’t kill any dryads. The gyrocopter hits 10 wild riders, but somehow I manage to save all the wounds.
Wood Elves Turn 4
Instead of waiting another turn and make sure my wild riders can get the flank, I just charge both dragon and wild riders to the front. I also used the potion of strength. Dragon needs a roll of 5, and he declares he has the slowness banner. I only roll 4 on swiftstride, so I fail no matter what. Eagle noble moves to threaten shooters and GG4 + dryads move away though I forgot to include it. Miasma is dispelled again, so I try a big pit on Q2 to save my dragon from some bolts. It goes off irresistibly, dimensional cascade removes a lot of glade guards and the spellsinger is sucked into the void. He does okay on his inititiative test, but still lose 12 quarrelers or so. It was too early to use the potion I suppose, but at least I make the first break test with some expected losses. Very surprised at the durability of his runesmith, was hoping to break his fortitude by killing him here.
Dwarfs Turn 5
Gyro tries to bomb my eagle noble, but I save all of it. In combat it doesn’t look good, only BSB and champion are left. They pass their break test on a 5, which is quite lucky. They did have rerollable 10 as a base, but still.
Wood Elves Turn 5
The dragon makes its charge and the eagle noble charges the quarrelers with the runesmith. I lose my last wild rider, but kills all except one hammerer and his characters. The one hammerer makes the unit stubborn, so he stays! Eagle noble does 1 wound to his other runesmith, and he declares his breath attack. I take 10 hits and end up taking 2 wounds. He reforms to face.
Dwarfs turn 6
He challenges with his runesmith general, but I decide to take it with the bsb to make sure I kill all of the hammeres and the BSB to break him and get points for the unit. Probably would have been better to take it with the dragon, then I could most likely have killed them all to a man (dwarf). His bsb and last hammerer dies, which breaks his fortitude. He rolls the break test and passes. Eagle noble kills the runesmith but is killed in return (barely).
Wood Elves Turn 6
Only the runesmith is left in close combat, but he survives. He gives a single wound to my bsb, but I pass the 2++ ward even though I have to reroll it because of the dragon. He passes his break test again.
In the end it’s a 20-0 win to me.
Thoughts
My opponent was new to the book, so missed a few things. I think he was wrong to castle in the corner. If castling up, it would have been better to take the center so that I had no place to hide and had to go to him, plus he could protect his cannon better. We talked about the new options for vanguarding, so he will probably try that out next time.
I was very happy with shadow, I would cast miasma on 2-3 dice and force him to consider if he wanted to use dice to dispel it or not. If he let it go, I could either end my phase or try for the irresistible force.
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
- Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
- Location: Cromwell,Connecticut
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
Are you sure steam gun can stand and shoot? what are the stats on that thing isn't it a flame template? correct me if i am wrong haven't seen new rules yet. If it is a template then no it probably can not stand and shoot that. It's meant for ballistic skill shooting. cant stand a shoot a cannon =P
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
I am not sure at all and it did seem a bit strange to me. He pointed out that they are not warmachines and that the weapon is not listed as slow-to-shoot. Its a strength 3 flame template with armor piercing, very good against elves! They can move and shoot, but not march and shoot.
He compared it to skaven warpfirethrowers that can stand and shoot.
That being said i have never read the book, and he only had the e-book version so i didnt have a chance to look through it.
He compared it to skaven warpfirethrowers that can stand and shoot.
That being said i have never read the book, and he only had the e-book version so i didnt have a chance to look through it.
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
- Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
- Location: Cromwell,Connecticut
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
My gut says no...hmmm not sure how the warpfire thrower works either...
EDIT: WARPFIRE THROWERS have a different rule. called rapid reaction from what I have researched. which allows ratling guns and warpfire throwers to stand and shoot. so that is THEIR special rule.
The copter and bomber have a normal cannon type weapon that is multiple shots and quick to fire THAT would get a stand and shoot the flame weapon does not have any rule that states if it can stand and shoot...even if it could whats the range? aka does it roll a dice for where the template lands? and if so it doesn't mean he he would auto reach and hit a lot of your guys. He must have had some nice luck to hit that many wild riders to begin with...You might have ben jipped my friend.
EDIT: WARPFIRE THROWERS have a different rule. called rapid reaction from what I have researched. which allows ratling guns and warpfire throwers to stand and shoot. so that is THEIR special rule.
The copter and bomber have a normal cannon type weapon that is multiple shots and quick to fire THAT would get a stand and shoot the flame weapon does not have any rule that states if it can stand and shoot...even if it could whats the range? aka does it roll a dice for where the template lands? and if so it doesn't mean he he would auto reach and hit a lot of your guys. He must have had some nice luck to hit that many wild riders to begin with...You might have ben jipped my friend.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
The gyro stand and shoot is an odd one. It is not a war machine, and does not have slow to fire. There is nothing in the rules to say that it can't stand and shoot, and the warp fire thrower has set a precedent for templates to do so.
However, it is unusual, seems very wrong, and I expect it is an oversight; but there isn't a solid argument to say it can't stand and shoot. If you're interested in the arguments, see here: http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/topic/430 ... am-cannon/
However, it is unusual, seems very wrong, and I expect it is an oversight; but there isn't a solid argument to say it can't stand and shoot. If you're interested in the arguments, see here: http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/topic/430 ... am-cannon/
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
- Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
- Location: Cromwell,Connecticut
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
Also if you had one model charge it...it couldn't aim and hit a different unit. All shots "aka the flame template" would hit the charging character. Does their flame template roll a scatter die for extra range or is it only from the model?
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
It's straight from the model - no extra range. If you charge from outside it's range, then it should fire as soon as the unit gets within range. This means at best it should hit the closest 2 models that the template just touches. However, if the gyro parks right in front of your unit it could toast quite a few models with a stand and shoot.
- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
Thanks for the information and the reference to the dwarven forum. Never thought an asrai would be thanking a dwarf, but there you go
Hope you can make do with a glass of wine instead of a mug of beer!
Hope you can make do with a glass of wine instead of a mug of beer!
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
A really friendly dwarf army. The army I usually play against is (names might be misspelled) 1 block of hammers, 1 of longbeards, 1 block of croswbowman, 2 x cannons with some runes and that makes one flaming and the other magical with some re-rolls or something, 2x stonethrowers again with some runes that give re-rolls and what not (i think it gives one flaming the other magical attacks) and a bunch of characters. Then he deploys his machine behind his 2 combat blocks and croswbows at the sides. Then he lets you go to him and break your teeth while he shoots the crap out of you and at the end whatever gets across gets hammered to bits ... not fun at all.
- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
Re: ETC dragon list vs new dwarves
He had just recieved his dwarves when we played this game, so it was by no way an optimized army. I hope more dwarf players will give up the castle-style army now that they have more access to vanguard and such.