Does Orion count as an Elf?

Moderator: Council of Elders

Gwill_of_the_Woods
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 702
Joined: 23 Aug 2013, 10:45
Armies I play: Wood Elves, AoS - Dwarf/Empire mix
Location: Swansea, Wales

Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Hey,

In my local meta, Elves are considered to have ASF. I was just wondering do "you" (the collective of wood elf players), consider Orion to be an Elf and therefore receive ASF?

I would like to know your thoughts and opinions. Do you think he'll get it anyway?

I know a fresh Elf is chosen every year to be imbued with the Spirit of Kurnous, does this mean he is still Elf, or due to his Satyr like transformation he just just pure forest spirit. I know he has the Forest spirit rule, but so do Wild Riders.

Thanks :D
Long live the King in the Woods!!!
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by hutobega »

Pure forest spirit, but I thought his weapon gave him ASF? maybe I'm way off i don't have the book in front of me.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
Lord Sloth
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 94
Joined: 29 Oct 2009, 12:15
Armies I play: Wood Elves and High Elves
Location: Cape Town, South Africa

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Lord Sloth »

Way off... it just gives him +2 str on the charge
"Athel Loren shall not suffer the presence of Men, nor Orcs, nor Dwarfs, nor Beastmen. If a foe takes a single step upon such sacred soil, they shall not take another." - Skarloc, Mist Walker of Athel Loren
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by hutobega »

HAHA thanks lord sloth! =P never used him.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
frogboy
Elder of the Council
Posts: 2023
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Armies I play: WoC (Nurgle), Just starting a Slannesh WoC for 8th, CSM(Khorne/Nurgle), Starting to build a Waaagh

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by frogboy »

Special rules

Orion is no longer a mortal elf...
Although to me it seems daft that he wouldn't get ASF, he's I9 and a Demi god like being :eek: armed with a pointy stick :question: his bow is cool though but apart from that it's all a bit, well... Meh <.<
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
User avatar
USG_Ishimura
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 85
Joined: 29 Aug 2011, 16:43

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by USG_Ishimura »

It says Orion is no longer a MORTAL elf. He is an elf, but he is inmortal. I would give him ASF. He is still an elf (at least half of him)
User avatar
popisdead
Former Council Member
Posts: 3096
Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 04:22
Location: Blackwater Park

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by popisdead »

At his cost, if anyone complains about him getting a house rule of ASF just point to the Daemon Prince.
everything plog
ork plog

"Yaaay for T7 Grots!"
User avatar
frogboy
Elder of the Council
Posts: 2023
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Armies I play: WoC (Nurgle), Just starting a Slannesh WoC for 8th, CSM(Khorne/Nurgle), Starting to build a Waaagh

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by frogboy »

USG_Ishimura wrote:It says Orion is no longer a MORTAL elf. He is an elf, but he is inmortal. I would give him ASF. He is still an elf (at least half of him)
He's not an Elf, he's part Arthel Loren and part Deity, he's not half Elf either, he's two parts, non of which are an Elf. He's no longer mortal, he's no longer Elf... I'm right and your WRONG !

Haha

:p
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
User avatar
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
Posts: 17411
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Beithir Seun »

He's as much Forest Spirit as Dryads, Treekin or Treemen (arguably more than the Tree units...). I'd say no to ASF, ruleswise, on the basis that he most definitely is not an elf, fluffwise (although I will caveat that statement with the opinion that he should get ASF, for entirely different reasons!)

Wild Riders, physically, are still elves - they have just merged with the consciousness of Athel Loren, but their bodies (and physical abilities) are still those of an elf. Orion is not an elf in any way, shape or form - he's an avatar, a physical manifestation of a deity, the God of the Hunt given physical form. Ironically, he's a lot more like a Daemon Prince than he is an elf :smirk:
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
User avatar
WizzyWarlock
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 339
Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 17:32

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by WizzyWarlock »

According to the Orion books an Elf becomes possessed by the spirit of Orion, changing him physically and mentally, though both seem to hold each others memories. So he's part Elf, part Spirit. I'd say yes to ASF.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by hutobega »

Too bad that is fluff and not rules. It doesn't say he gets ASF in the rules and it doesn't clarify that he is an elf just says "forest spirit"...going to be hard to fight for.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
RedPanda
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 150
Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 06:17
Armies I play: Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Eldar, Kroot
Location: San Diego

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by RedPanda »

I say he is more akin to the Eldar Avatar of Khane than a Chaos Avatar/Daemon Prince
"The world is not beautiful, therefore it is" -Kino
User avatar
Billthesurly
Elder of the Council
Posts: 1324
Joined: 20 Jan 2012, 14:31
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Orcs and Amazons
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Ministry of Profound Bloviation.

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Billthesurly »

I would see Orion as a god-like elf. Who is more likely to have ASF a normal elf or one with god-like powers? (Read god ((small g)/daemon/mighty supernatural git)
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
User avatar
godswearhats
Elder of the Council
Posts: 1950
Joined: 19 Oct 2012, 18:20
Armies I play: Wood Elves
Location: Wexford, IE
Contact:

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by godswearhats »

Even with ASF he's not worth taking.
Rank and Flank: A Warhammer: The Old World Podcast and Discord
User avatar
frogboy
Elder of the Council
Posts: 2023
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Armies I play: WoC (Nurgle), Just starting a Slannesh WoC for 8th, CSM(Khorne/Nurgle), Starting to build a Waaagh

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by frogboy »

godswearhats wrote:Even with ASF he's not worth taking.
I think its due to the "Spirit of Kurnous" rule which really ruins it that and the fact he's so many points you loose access to life/beast magic I mean what role is he meant to do ? With no armour and only a forest spirit ward save he's a lot of points to be running around engaging war machines and chaff.

:confused:
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
User avatar
Blackcat
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 374
Joined: 19 Oct 2010, 04:33
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Empire, Imperial Guard, Eldar
Location: Australia

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Blackcat »

Personally I think he should get ASF but we'll see when we get the new army book. Hopefully all the elves in wood elves get ASF and if not they better get some amazing shooting abilities
User avatar
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
Posts: 17411
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
Location: Staffordshire, UK

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Beithir Seun »

RedPanda wrote:I say he is more akin to the Eldar Avatar of Khane than a Chaos Avatar/Daemon Prince
Fluffwise, an Eldar Avatar is essentially the same thing as a Chaos Avatar, or any other type of god-like being in the game (although they get there via different routes). The point is that an Eldar Avatar, Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons, Orion etc. are all embodiments of their respective gods; they are given power and sustained by the will of their patron deities, and are made up of the essence of magic, or the Warp. That is not something any of them have in common with a normal elf.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Gwill_of_the_Woods
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 702
Joined: 23 Aug 2013, 10:45
Armies I play: Wood Elves, AoS - Dwarf/Empire mix
Location: Swansea, Wales

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Yeah I agree that he is no longer an elf. However, I do think he should ASF.

I usually use him with a True ward save, MR2 (instead of the dispel) and at 450 points, and I only play "fluff"/friendly games anyway, so it's only for fun.
Plus, I can take Life & Beasts on spellsingers.

He should have the infamy/reputation as a Demon Prince or Greater Demon though. Displaying the power of a Demi-god or Avatar etc. Actually something to be Terrified of.
I'm sure they will fix his rules. I LOVE the model. It's actually my all time favourite Warhammer model & the reason I started collecting in the first place. :D

Right, I know this is fiction but I was just want to clarify.
So once that elf enters (he will be named "Brian" in this analogy) into the Oak of Ages, the elf is essentially no longer "Brian" in the slightest, no memories, doesn't look like "Brian" etc. But he gets changed into ORION, Orion's consciousness, the same old Orion visually (not like Orion "Woah, Orion really took on Brian's distinctively long nose this year didn't he? Remember last year when he had Craig's gigantic left eye?!").
All of the memories from his previous life before he was "blessed" by Kurnous (...or whatever happened on that weird night he spent with Ariel when they were immortalised), and the memories every year of rebirth are accumulative. So his consciousness lives on?
So I'm assuming when/if he dies in battle it's just meat, but his consciousness can be re-born again in the following summer.

Are there any other Elven god Avatars? Orion is Kurnous & Ariel is Isha.
Long live the King in the Woods!!!
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by hutobega »

and I am laughing at work so hard.. Craigs huge left ear..lmfao!
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
User avatar
frogboy
Elder of the Council
Posts: 2023
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Armies I play: WoC (Nurgle), Just starting a Slannesh WoC for 8th, CSM(Khorne/Nurgle), Starting to build a Waaagh

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by frogboy »

Brian's skinned alive then has his heart cut out at which point the priests stuff an old oak apple core in the hole, he's then drowned to death in ice cold water (just to finish him off) as Brian's soul drifts off to the oak of ages Orion's soul/presence or whatever drifts into the new "host". Orion's memories are muddled and fuzzy at first like a newly born calf he stumbles around in confusion grasping at distant memories.
Over the next few months as Spring develops into Summer Orion's body starts to grow in stature and strength, limbs becoming elongated, his feet become hooves, rippling muscle tears across his body which takes on a green colour and his many memories come flooding back....

After reading the Orion Novels that's how I picture him. I think he should have always strikes first in addition to some better special rules, hopefully the next edition of Wood Elves gives him a better life span than just a Summer with good enough rules to see him included in games for years to come.

Cheers,
Frogboy
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
User avatar
popisdead
Former Council Member
Posts: 3096
Joined: 20 Sep 2005, 04:22
Location: Blackwater Park

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by popisdead »

godswearhats wrote:Even with ASF he's not worth taking.
Pretty much. At 375 and ASF he'd be interesting.

With Cluster on a BW, that is one of the only ways to get +3 DD (outside of dwarfs?). Add 3 x 20 GG and some WRs to help lose :P
everything plog
ork plog

"Yaaay for T7 Grots!"
Gwill_of_the_Woods
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 702
Joined: 23 Aug 2013, 10:45
Armies I play: Wood Elves, AoS - Dwarf/Empire mix
Location: Swansea, Wales

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

frogboy wrote:Brian's skinned alive then has his heart cut out at which point the priests stuff an old oak apple core in the hole, he's then drowned to death in ice cold water (just to finish him off) as Brian's soul drifts off to the oak of ages Orion's soul/presence or whatever drifts into the new "host". Orion's memories are muddled and fuzzy at first like a newly born calf he stumbles around in confusion grasping at distant memories.
Over the next few months as Spring develops into Summer Orion's body starts to grow in stature and strength, limbs becoming elongated, his feet become hooves, rippling muscle tears across his body which takes on a green colour and his many memories come flooding back....

After reading the Orion Novels that's how I picture him. I think he should have always strikes first in addition to some better special rules, hopefully the next edition of Wood Elves gives him a better life span than just a Summer with good enough rules to see him included in games for years to come.

Cheers,
Frogboy
That's my daily sleep/wake cycle you've got right there! Haha! :lol:
Long live the King in the Woods!!!
User avatar
hutobega
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1097
Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
Location: Cromwell,Connecticut

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by hutobega »

We all WANT ASF but does he have it right now....no :( SAD FACE! lol
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
Coyle_Ravane
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1269
Joined: 04 May 2007, 09:39
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Tau, Imperial guard (Tau auxilleries)
Location: Maidstone, Kent, England

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

frogboy wrote:Brian's skinned alive then has his heart cut out at which point the priests stuff an old oak apple core in the hole, he's then drowned to death in ice cold water (just to finish him off) as Brian's soul drifts off to the oak of ages Orion's soul/presence or whatever drifts into the new "host". Orion's memories are muddled and fuzzy at first like a newly born calf he stumbles around in confusion grasping at distant memories.
Over the next few months as Spring develops into Summer Orion's body starts to grow in stature and strength, limbs becoming elongated, his feet become hooves, rippling muscle tears across his body which takes on a green colour and his many memories come flooding back....

After reading the Orion Novels that's how I picture him. I think he should have always strikes first in addition to some better special rules, hopefully the next edition of Wood Elves gives him a better life span than just a Summer with good enough rules to see him included in games for years to come.

Cheers,
Frogboy
Whoa, since when did the bit with the oak apple and the cold water happen?

I thought he just got sealed up in the tree over winter. That used to be the fluff.

The elf dying does make sense, as in the real world, Cernunnos, Herne the Hunter and similar European hunting/forest gods are all sacrificial gods of death & rebirth, dying and being reborn in an annual cycle. The dying part being crucial to the whole process.

His rules are pretty good now, if he wasn't so expensive, and I'd love to see him under the effects of savage beast.........
Minty wrote:...if you've been killed by a Wood Elf it's nothing personal, but Charles Darwin is smiling with approval.
Image
User avatar
frogboy
Elder of the Council
Posts: 2023
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Armies I play: WoC (Nurgle), Just starting a Slannesh WoC for 8th, CSM(Khorne/Nurgle), Starting to build a Waaagh

Re: Does Orion count as an Elf?

Post by frogboy »

All that happened in the first Orion Novel, although someone will properly want to correct me with an exact quote at some point as I just wrote from what I remembered.
By the time the third book comes out I'll have to reread the first two I think, can't remember if he's dead yet ?
Spoiler alert, I think its a good read he even kills a dragon in the second book and he rides on an eagle but not directly into battle. You should read them too (look into my eyes :eek: you want them, read them.... Whoooohohoo)

Haha :D
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??
sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
Locked