A couple of cavalry questions

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Coyle_Ravane
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A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Ok, so I have 2 questions relating to cavalry.

1. I don't see any reference in the rulebook to mounted models not getting the benefit of dual hand weapons, am I missing it somewhere?

2. Does Wyssan's wildform affect mounts?

Thanks
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by hutobega »

Wyssans does not effect mount that I am aware of. And yes you can't use extra hand weapon when mounted. Only Savage orcs have the special rule to do so with I believe. Also some special characters.
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Luminith
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Luminith »

Actually I'm pretty sure wildform does affect mounts! It buffs the whole unit, and mounts are part of the unit.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by hutobega »

hmmmm if It does I never knew that and wow I want wild riders even more now...
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by valmir »

Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't affect mounts. Things that don't pass on to the mounts say so specifically.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Beithir Seun »

Coyle_Ravane wrote:1. I don't see any reference in the rulebook to mounted models not getting the benefit of dual hand weapons, am I missing it somewhere?
It's in the Weapons section, under Two Hand Weapons/Additional Hand Weapons. Basically, nothing's changed from 7th - only models on foot gain any benefit.
2. Does Wyssan's wildform affect mounts?

I can't see anything in the rulebook or FAQ that says Wyssan's doesn't affect mounts, so I would assume it does. It makes sense, being as it's Lore of Beasts :smirk:
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Coyle_Ravane
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Yeah, I just saw that bit about additional hand weapons in the brb. Given that I just read the brb from cover to cover yesterday, I'm not sure how I missed it.

I assumed wildform would affect the mounts, as it says "the target unit" gains +1 s&t, but wasn't sure.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Billthesurly »

Oh HELL YES it affects the horses! Which is why you don't want to pull an old geezer brain-fart and forget to fight with them! :roll:

And besides, everyone knows that our horses are always far more deadly than their riders right? <.<
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Billthesurly wrote: And besides, everyone knows that our horses are always far more deadly than their riders right? <.<
...every time :p
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Billthesurly wrote:Oh HELL YES it affects the horses!
And Stags...

:)
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Shandrakor »

Gwill_of_the_Woods wrote:
Billthesurly wrote: And besides, everyone knows that our horses are always far more deadly than their riders right? <.<
...every time :p
+1 :confused: ... They laugh at my riders but then the mounts get all ornery afterwards!
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by hutobega »

I want a unit of horses and stags....just the mounts.. most OP unit in the game. no need for re rolls they wound 90% of the time anyways...
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by godswearhats »

Savage Beast also affects character mounts btw.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Mollesvinet »

Does it now? There has been alot of discussion about this. Wyssan says that it targets the entire unit, which includes the mount. Savage Beast of Horros states that it targets the character, many argue that it only affects the character and thus not his mount.

Personally i have been playing it that only the character gets the bonus. Otherwise, think about dragon riders or lizardmen steg riders with this spell.

Would be happy to hear some good arguments for it though, an eagle with S7 and 5 attacks doesn't sound so bad.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Savage Beast of Horros states that it targets the character, many argue that it only affects the character and thus not his mount.
I would assume that the argument would be that while the spell targets the character, it grants the bonus to the model. To me, it seems clear that this is gw's infamous inability to apply terminology consistently. But also seems pretty clear that strict RAW would include a mount (or chariot! :eek: :smoke: :eek: ).

Edit: just remembered, faq says:
Q: Can spells that pick out individual models, even if they are in a unit, choose what is hit when targeting a model with multiple locations? For example The Fate of Bjunais cast at an Orc Warboss on a Wyvern, the caster can choose to target the Warboss or the Wyvern and it will be resolved against the Toughness of the target. (Reference) A: Yes.
so affecting "the model" does not mean the mount as well.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Sidewinder »

In addition to the boost for the horses, the casting cost of Wyssan's Wildform is reduced by one because it is being cast upon a unit of cavalry (lore attribute).
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by godswearhats »

The rules under cavalry and ridden monsters state that the rider and mount count as one model. The ridden monster rules state that the entire model counts as both monster and character. The savage beast targets a character. I'm not sure I can see how this can be interpreted any other way?
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Mollesvinet »

Examples of discussions:

http://www.warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewt ... 3&t=118010

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 62903.page

There are many more of these. I am not saying which way is correct, just saying that people should be aware that others don't agree on this. Personally I only increase the stats of the character in order to avoid the argument, plus it seems like the intention to me even if the rules are not clear.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by Shandrakor »

Think of it this way. A character chooses a mount to ride, the mount isn't a character by itself. In the case of ridden Monster and Character riding it, if the character is killed off the Monster, the Monster is no longer considered a character any more is it? If it's not a character when alone, then how is it a legal target for Savage Beast of Horros even when paired with a character that rides it?

Now, while I say the above, I can also see the argument for the other side, because the wording in the BRB isn't clear on the subject. That said, it's best practice to consult with others you will be playing with before the game begins to avoid confusion and wasted time during the actual battle to argue over what the ruling should be.
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Re: A couple of cavalry questions

Post by godswearhats »

Like Mollesvinet, I usually just run it that it only applies to the character - seems less likely to cause arguments :-)
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