Charging query
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- Blackcat
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 19 Oct 2010, 04:33
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Empire, Imperial Guard, Eldar
- Location: Australia
Charging query
Hi guys,
I was playing against my friend with my wood elves and an issue arouse. I had a treekin unit 7 inches away from a spearman unit. My left treekin (facing him) was in line with his most left spearman model (facing me). The issue arouse because he said that only one treekin could get into combat because of the 7 inches charge. I rolled a double 1 on my charge but movement 5 plus 2 meant I still reached combat.
As far as I am aware before you charge you pivot to face your enemy and then move forward before "closing the door" on the enemy. The pivot took me out of the 7 inches so he said I either couldnt make the charge or I was only able to get one model into combat.
So does he have to "close the door" on me after I move 7 inches or do I still make the combat and close on him?
We ended up going with 2 of the 3 treekin being able to make combat.
I was playing against my friend with my wood elves and an issue arouse. I had a treekin unit 7 inches away from a spearman unit. My left treekin (facing him) was in line with his most left spearman model (facing me). The issue arouse because he said that only one treekin could get into combat because of the 7 inches charge. I rolled a double 1 on my charge but movement 5 plus 2 meant I still reached combat.
As far as I am aware before you charge you pivot to face your enemy and then move forward before "closing the door" on the enemy. The pivot took me out of the 7 inches so he said I either couldnt make the charge or I was only able to get one model into combat.
So does he have to "close the door" on me after I move 7 inches or do I still make the combat and close on him?
We ended up going with 2 of the 3 treekin being able to make combat.
- WizzyWarlock
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 339
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 17:32
Re: Charging query
The distance doesn't matter in a charge, as long as you roll enough to reach you can move an infinite distance. Yep, seriously. This is how it works:
1) Determine Distance - 7" in your case.
2) Roll dice and add movement value. If you get that 7 or more than the charge is successful.
3) The unit moves directly forward until in base contact with the enemy. However, at any point during the movement it can wheel up to 90 degrees. The movement has to bring as many models as possible into base contact.
4) Once the unit comes into contact, another free wheel Is applied to bring the models flush to each other, called Closing the Door. If the charging unit can't close the door due to an obstruction of some kind, then the charged unit has to close the door instead.
So there's no pivot to face and the distance doesn't matter - as long as that first roll is enough, then the unit can move as far as it needs to.
1) Determine Distance - 7" in your case.
2) Roll dice and add movement value. If you get that 7 or more than the charge is successful.
3) The unit moves directly forward until in base contact with the enemy. However, at any point during the movement it can wheel up to 90 degrees. The movement has to bring as many models as possible into base contact.
4) Once the unit comes into contact, another free wheel Is applied to bring the models flush to each other, called Closing the Door. If the charging unit can't close the door due to an obstruction of some kind, then the charged unit has to close the door instead.
So there's no pivot to face and the distance doesn't matter - as long as that first roll is enough, then the unit can move as far as it needs to.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
- Blackcat
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 374
- Joined: 19 Oct 2010, 04:33
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Empire, Imperial Guard, Eldar
- Location: Australia
Re: Charging query
Thank you so much. That definitely clears up a few things and having a third party clarify the rules will hopefully sort out the issue.
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- Bladesinger
- Posts: 904
- Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
- Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
- Location: Turin, Italy.
Re: Charging query
Hi, I have another question on this subject.
In a similar situation (enemy unit 7" away, but not exactly in front), if I charge and he flees , does the inch(es) gained with the flee-rotation count in the determination of whether I catch him or not?
E.G.if I charge by 12"and he doesn't roll at least 5, then his unit is destroyed, no matter what?
In a similar situation (enemy unit 7" away, but not exactly in front), if I charge and he flees , does the inch(es) gained with the flee-rotation count in the determination of whether I catch him or not?
E.G.if I charge by 12"and he doesn't roll at least 5, then his unit is destroyed, no matter what?
- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
Re: Charging query
It's not a pursuit, so you don't compare rolls. The fleeing unit moves as soon as it declares to flee, once all charges are declared (or redirected) you measure the current (shortest) distance to the target and roll for charge distance.
- WizzyWarlock
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 339
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 17:32
Re: Charging query
That's right, though it could be slightly more (or less!) than the 5 as the first thing he has to do is pivot the unit on the spot so his centre is facing directly away from the charging units centre. Once the fleeing unit has moved, you measure it again to find out the charge distance. If you do catch him, the unit is destroyed regardless of what it might be, and you can then make a leadership test to reform.NonnoSte wrote:Hi, I have another question on this subject.
In a similar situation (enemy unit 7" away, but not exactly in front), if I charge and he flees , does the inch(es) gained with the flee-rotation count in the determination of whether I catch him or not?
E.G.if I charge by 12"and he doesn't roll at least 5, then his unit is destroyed, no matter what?
Want to catch that unit for sure? Park a Great Eagle 13" behind the unit (make sure you know the angle it's going to be running) then when the unit flees, charge the Great Eagle at it. The unit can't go any further than 12" so it's guaranteed to be in range, and the Great Eagle has Swiftstride so you're rolling 3D6, taking the two highest and adding 10". If the unit isn't eaten by the Great Eagle I want to know why! Alternatively, have a Great Eagle facing in the direction of the unit. As long as it doesn't end up more than 22" away from the fleeing unit (10" + max of 2D6), it can declare a charge, causing it to flee again! I love Great Eagles.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
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- Bladesinger
- Posts: 904
- Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
- Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
- Location: Turin, Italy.
Re: Charging query
Ah ah....that goes without saying (I constantly read through the Great Eagle Tactica on Ulthuan.net).
The point was that during a game I charged and he fled by a number of inches that would have brought him exactly at the maximum of my charge (adding them to the distance between the two units).
But due to something like an inch and a half that he gained pivoting, he stated that I did not caught the unit (they were 20 archers in two ranks of 10, and i took the leftmost one to declare the charge).
(I indeed charged them again with my eagle, sending them out of the table, but I would have liked to use it otherwise in that situation)
The point was that during a game I charged and he fled by a number of inches that would have brought him exactly at the maximum of my charge (adding them to the distance between the two units).
But due to something like an inch and a half that he gained pivoting, he stated that I did not caught the unit (they were 20 archers in two ranks of 10, and i took the leftmost one to declare the charge).
(I indeed charged them again with my eagle, sending them out of the table, but I would have liked to use it otherwise in that situation)
- WizzyWarlock
- Horsemaster
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- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 17:32
Re: Charging query
Yeah, he is right on that one. If the target flees then your charge distance is to where he ends up, not where he started plus X inches. Don't forget you always measure the shortest distance between the two units to work out the charge range.NonnoSte wrote:The point was that during a game I charged and he fled by a number of inches that would have brought him exactly at the maximum of my charge (adding them to the distance between the two units).
But due to something like an inch and a half that he gained pivoting, he stated that I did not caught the unit (they were 20 archers in two ranks of 10, and i took the leftmost one to declare the charge).
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
Re: Charging query
Did they pivot the unit or turn the models?
The pivoted unit may add a few inches to the movement but turned models add no distance to the move.
They therefore should have been caught.
This has caused extensive problems at our club and the general consensus after much discussion and checking of rulebooks, is that the 'unit' doesn't pivot but the 'models' do, causing no increase in the flee movement of the unit.
The pivoted unit may add a few inches to the movement but turned models add no distance to the move.
They therefore should have been caught.
This has caused extensive problems at our club and the general consensus after much discussion and checking of rulebooks, is that the 'unit' doesn't pivot but the 'models' do, causing no increase in the flee movement of the unit.
Re: Charging query
And even if he does manage to gain some distance by pivoting the unit, it shouldn't be anymore then half an inch, which means he really shouldn't be able to get away at all.
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
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- Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
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Re: Charging query
Charging can be a pain sometimes but I think it's as basic as saying if models are 8 inches away... and they flee role of a 6 that is 14 inches away now... you role charge distance and it's 6 a 5 and movement 5...well you caught them... because the first turn up to 90 degrees is free. sorry if this is late or if i am missing the point completely lmao...
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
- WizzyWarlock
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 339
- Joined: 22 Oct 2010, 17:32
Re: Charging query
A single model wouldn't gain any distance, unless it had a strange base size, but a unit would depending on the angle you're approaching it. I made a very quick picture to illustrate the point here:mryam wrote:Did they pivot the unit or turn the models?
The pivoted unit may add a few inches to the movement but turned models add no distance to the move.
They therefore should have been caught.
This has caused extensive problems at our club and the general consensus after much discussion and checking of rulebooks, is that the 'unit' doesn't pivot but the 'models' do, causing no increase in the flee movement of the unit.
When the unit declares its charge its distance is 3". The unit decides to flee, so moves around its centre to point directly away from the centre of the charging unit. This turn now puts the closest point 5" away, so it's already gained 2" before it's added its flee distance.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
Re: Charging query
This is correct. The flee roll has no interaction with the charge distance roll at all. It is, essentially, a separate move.