Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

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Fredi
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Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Fredi »

If I put 40 Eternal Guard’s as a “HORDE”:
How many hits gain from charge and non-charge turn.

Is it if in
Non-charge turn:
1st rank with two hand weapon and 2nd to 4th rank with spear,therefore total gain 50 hits ?

Charge turn:
As the eternal guard fighting style, therefore just 1st rank gain 20 hit by two hand weapons ?

Could somebody please clarify it.
Thanks

Fredi
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Blackcat »

Not charging you will get 50 attacks. 20 for the first rank and then 3 more ranks because they are using spears, so another 30.

Charging they will receive 20 attacks for the first rank and another 20 for the 2 ranks afterwards.

Hordes fight in 3 ranks and spears give you an extra rank when taking a charge
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by JAMOB »

Unless I'm mistaken and we are high elves, you get 3 ranks TOTAL with spears, not 3 ranks behind the first, and similarly 2 ranks TOTAl can attack when not using spears.

So, Not charging - 40 attacks (2 per first row, 1 per 2nd and 3rd)
Charging - 30 attacks (2 per first row, 1 per 2nd)

This unit would be a great bunker.
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godswearhats
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by godswearhats »

Hordes get an extra rank. High elf spearman hordes attack in 5 ranks :-)
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

godswearhats wrote:Hordes get an extra rank. High elf spearman hordes attack in 5 ranks :-)
Which is both fantastic and absolutley ridiculous. I;m thinking my Sea Guard may need another 20 models or so...
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Phil Rossiter »

The problem is S3.

Against many things you need some way for those attacks to chew through armour in particular.
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Mollesvinet
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Mollesvinet »

That many attacks are begging for mindrazor to be cast. That would be brutal
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

Haha, five ranks of 10 S3 L8 models, 50 attacks suddenly at S8... Aaaaand everything on the table dies.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Mollesvinet »

Add to that the new faq and a leadership 10 general:

Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.

Then again, you could be fighting only a couple of great eagles for the entire battle....
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by godswearhats »

This is exactly what happens to bit strong hordes when I face them. However, the advantage of the Wood Elves is MSU Glade Guard are probably the best chaff cleaners in the game.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Agreed, S4 ranged just erases chaff.

The other problem with the Mindrazor Horde is that if you don't IF it, your unit could be dying horribly.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

Phil Rossiter wrote:The other problem with the Mindrazor Horde is that if you don't IF it, your unit could be dying horribly.
Of course. you could say that about quite a large percentage of the dice rolls in the game. But, I get your point. Probably not wise to march a block of them into combat with some heavy cavalry, hoping you'll manage to get off the spell...
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Blackcat »

Strength 3 can indeed be an issue for elf hordes. So I would recommend wyssans wildform combined with the razor standard for eternal guard. Having a highborn for stubborn, a bsb for a reroll on that and taking a rhymers harp makes the unit extremely survivable and capable of dishing out damage but it is more of an anvil than a hammer.

I would support them with dryads, treekin or treemen.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

Having a decent hammer OR anvil is never to be sneezed at, with wood elves!

Edit: "hammer or anvil," not "hammer or hammer"...
Last edited by Revelen on 08 Feb 2014, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
Pawiie
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Pawiie »

The eternal guard fighting style also says an extra rank, so our EG actually DO fight in 4 ranks out of charge..

and NO WHERE in the rules does it say that our EG is equipped with a spear.. - they count as having one, but dont..

Charge: 20 A 1st rank - 10 A 2nd rank =30 Attacks

Non-Charge: 20+10+10+10. =50 Attacks (1st+2nd+3rd(horde)+4th("they may fight with an additional rank(as if armed with spears)" page 18, second paragraph - third last sentence there)
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by hutobega »

If they charge they get 3 ranks....Hoarded out... 4 ranks any other combat round. if not hoarded then only 2 ranks fight on charge and 3 in any other combat round. Don't lose out on attacks =P
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

So, in summary, is the consensus this?

Charge => 3 ranks => 20(1st)+10(2nd)+10(3rd) => 40 attacks total, on charge.

Non-charge => 4 ranks => 20(1st)+10(2nd)+10(3rd)+10(4th) => 50 attacks total, non-charge.
valmir
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by valmir »

Well, consensus isn't really necessary. That's just what the rules say. ;)
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Revelen »

valmir wrote:Well, consensus isn't really necessary. That's just what the rules say. ;)
Presisimundo. :D
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Blackcat wrote:Strength 3 can indeed be an issue for elf hordes. So I would recommend wyssans wildform combined with the razor standard for eternal guard. Having a highborn for stubborn, a bsb for a reroll on that and taking a rhymers harp makes the unit extremely survivable and capable of dishing out damage but it is more of an anvil than a hammer.

I would support them with dryads, treekin or treemen.
I agree, Razor + Wildform is the way to go for that crucial -2 to armour saves. You don't have to Star it up with the lord characters but it's certainly a tough unit. Treekin are great support.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Blackcat »

Phil Rossiter wrote:
Blackcat wrote:Strength 3 can indeed be an issue for elf hordes. So I would recommend wyssans wildform combined with the razor standard for eternal guard. Having a highborn for stubborn, a bsb for a reroll on that and taking a rhymers harp makes the unit extremely survivable and capable of dishing out damage but it is more of an anvil than a hammer.

I would support them with dryads, treekin or treemen.
I agree, Razor + Wildform is the way to go for that crucial -2 to armour saves. You don't have to Star it up with the lord characters but it's certainly a tough unit. Treekin are great support.
You definitely dont need to star it up but having a single noble will make the unit a whole lot more competitive. Taking a lord with rhymer's harp is a very specific play style but then again so is taking eternal guard when most wood elf armies are just small units running around.

I played two games recently, one against high elves and one against chaos warriors and both players were extremely surprised at how tough eternal guard actually are.
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by hutobega »

When the new books comes out if there is still a rhymers harp type item I want to make a 40 man eternal guard unit. I think it looks like a ton a fun and if it stays back and lets glade guard soften up targets it could be super fun...war dances on the flanks hehe
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Re: Horde - Eternal Guard Hits question

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Blackcat wrote: having a single noble will make the unit a whole lot more competitive.
Yeah, I run just a tank BSB in mine. I'm beginning to wonder about occasional uses of Steadfast when he's not there but in general Bodyguard makes life a lot easier. The crucial point to me is that buffed up EG can kill things but support from other units really makes them tick.
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