Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

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darksaga
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Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by darksaga »

Hello to all.

Had this happen to me in a recent tournament and bc of the way we played it I lost the game.
I will describe the situation and give a bad picture. Hopefully it will be enough for clarification. :)


So I had a block of EG with 3 heroes inside Highborn, noble and a wizard.
The unit (5 wide) was charged in front with 2 units and one unit at the side.

Legend:
ee - enemy 1 - some hero on disc
EEE - enemy 2 - chimera
22 - enemy hero on a mount
H - highborn
C - command models
W - wizard
G - eternal guards

ee EEE
H C CCN 22
WGGGG 22
GGGGG

Now the hero at the side (22) issued a challenge which I accepted with my highborn.
I had to move my highborn from the left side to the right and here comes the question.
Where does he have to move?
1) Does he have to move the 2nd row behind the N
2) can he displace the noble at the side moving the whole front row by 1 to left? CCCNH
3) does he change places with the noble? NCCCH
4) something else?

IF the answer is 1.
Can I change where the command models stand so I can get more favorable position in challenges in case I again have to move the H to the side somewhere? So it would look something like this: C H C N C ?

Also a semi unrelated question about the wizard. If the wizard is in 2nd row, how does this influence casting of spells, in other words which spells can he NOT cast if any in the next two scenarios.

a) Wizard is in 2nd row at the edge:
GGGGG
WGGGG

b) Wizard is in 2nd row but in 2nd spot not at the edge.
GGGGG
GWGGG

Thank you all for reading this and hopefully a easy clarification.
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Shandrakor
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by Shandrakor »

When challenging, the Highborn swaps places with a nearby friendly model to the challenger to accept the challenge (any in base contact).

As for the Wizard, their location in the unit doesn't really cause problems for casting.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by darksaga »

Even if that friendly model is a character that will be moved far away? Which part of the rules supports that theory?
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by godswearhats »

The BRB states that the only thing that needs to remain constant is the number of models in base contact, not the specific models.

Also, the Noble can still use Make Way! to move into base contact with the enemy. Basically at no point will your wizard be forced into the front rank or into base contact until either the Noble or Highborn is dead.
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by darksaga »

Make way states that you can only move the character if he is not in combat. Considering that my characters were engaged from the front that would mean that my characters cant make way, except the wizard in 2nd row ...
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by godswearhats »

darksaga wrote:Make way states that you can only move the character if he is not in combat. Considering that my characters were engaged from the front that would mean that my characters cant make way, except the wizard in 2nd row ...
Oh yes, sorry. I missed that the Highborn was engaged on the left there - I thought that when your Noble was swapped with the Highborn he'd be out of combat, but he wouldn't be.
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Shandrakor
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by Shandrakor »

darksaga wrote:Even if that friendly model is a character that will be moved far away? Which part of the rules supports that theory?
Page 102: Fighting a Challenge just says the accepting character for the challenge moves to be in base contact with the challenge issuer. So technically the character in the way could just slide out of the way, swap places, whatever works as there's no hard and fast rule about where the model(s) in the way moves to when the person who accepted the challenge moves to be in base contact.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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godswearhats
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by godswearhats »

Right: you swap for Make Way! but for challenges it doesn't say. I would also assume swap, and I've always played it that way.
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Soltari
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by Soltari »

One more question here - I don´t play EG, so similar situation doesn´t happen to me, but just to be sure. I have not found it in BRB, so maybe experienced players with EG buses (Shandrakor?) know it.

In this situation, if mounted character is on the left (bold 2) in cavalry unit and doesn´t touch the first rank of EG unit:

ee EEE
HCCCN 22
WGGGG 22
GGGGG

Will the Highborn just swap places with EG model in base contact with the mounted enemy character (like this):

ee EEE
GCCCN 22
WGGGH 22
GGGGG

Or, should I place the Spellweaver (W) in the front rank (like this), because I have to move character there?

ee EEE
WCCCN 22
GGGGH 22
GGGGG

Thanks :D
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by godswearhats »

The last diagram you have is correct. Command groups and characters must be in the front rank if there is room. Characters are displaced to second rank in favor of Command. You can always choose which characters go in the front rank if you have more than enough to fill it.
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Shandrakor
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by Shandrakor »

godswearhats wrote:The last diagram you have is correct. Command groups and characters must be in the front rank if there is room. Characters are displaced to second rank in favor of Command. You can always choose which characters go in the front rank if you have more than enough to fill it.
Exactly, that's why it's important, in a situation like this, to swap or slide over the Noble in the way (still in first rank), as opposed to moving the Highborn to the second rank to fight the challenge (and thus forcing the Spellweaver into combat).
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Soltari
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by Soltari »

Thank you guys. I thought it was like this, but was not sure about positions in challenge. It seems to me very important to know for EG players (well, not me ;) ) to keep Spellweaver out of combat.
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Re: Multiple questions about Challange with hero in EG

Post by godswearhats »

Yes very!
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