Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

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Bearded_Dragon
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Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by Bearded_Dragon »

Which is the better amour to use Helm of the hunt or dragonhelm?

is the banner of eternal flame becoming more and more common for armies to take? if so does a eagle noble who is kitted for hunting warmachines and chaff better with 2++ against flaming attacks or better of getting +1A and WS on a charge??

whats every ones opinions????
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by citizendave »

hi bearded dragon. in my limited experience i prefer dragonhelm.
this is because i would never get much use out of HotH. my eagle noble might charge once or twice in the whole game (1000 to 1500 point games anyway), so one or two extra attacks per game isnt much. WS is even less important because you only have to be higher than your opponent, it dosnt matter how much higher. a noble already has very good WS so he is probably already higher than most opponents, including war machines.
i know that flaming attacks aren't common but wood elves must be one of the most popular armies for opponents to bring flaming attacks against. even though they are always directed at the treekin. but still.
so i err on the side of caution while he is out there all lonely behind enemy lines all by himself and just let the eagle give him extra attacks instead of the HotH as well.
i hope that sounds fair enough.
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by godswearhats »

If you have points and slots take Helm of the Hunt and Dragonbane gem. If not, you can reverse them by taking Dragonhelm and Potion of Foolhardiness.
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by Shandrakor »

I think the bigger question is why would you ever take the Enchanted Shield over the Dragonhelm?

The Dragonhelm + a mundane Shield will give the same protection as the Enchanted Shield and the Dragonhelm works with Great Weapons, Extra Hand Weapons, etc. Not only that, but the Dragonhelm gives the 2+ Ward Save against flaming attacks and only costs the price of the mundane Shield over the Enchanted Shield.

As far as the Helm of the Hunt vs the Dragonhelm... It's kind of apples to oranges. The Dragonhelm is that cheap bonus to defense that stacks well with things like the Amaranthine Brooch for a broader defense, whereas the Helm of the Hunt costs more and makes some Ward Saves out of reach. Not only that, but you don't get that many charges off in a game, but you get attacked a heck of a lot. Protecting yourself should be your number one priority, then use your leftover points to augment your offense.
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by LandonElf »

It all depends. On a Noble, note that the additional WS from the Helm of the Hunt gives him WS 7. This is pretty significant vs Ogres or any other army with WS 3, because they now require 5's to hit you in the first round of combat. This can be pretty huge. On a highborn, the Helm is much less useful.

Honestly though, the Dragonhelm is the better deal. The only time the Helm of the Hunt is taken in modern play, is on Wildrider characters, mainly because they cant take the dragonhelm (debatably), and they have no other way of reaching an armor save of 4+.
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by Phil Rossiter »

LandonElf wrote:On a highborn, the Helm is much less useful.
Being M9 a Wild Rider will usually be getting the charge and it's a good way of ensuring you maintain his 5 attacks (key with no re-rolls). Plus he'll be trying to kill enemy WS 7 characters sometimes and hitting on 3's helps a lot.

On the whole I agree though.

EDIT:

My bad for threadomancy, didn't realise the topic was so long gone.
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by hutobega »

el oh el. Go back to Carpe Noctem you VC scum!!!! oh wait nm you're green lol
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by Phil Rossiter »

How often on a forum is the 8th or so topic down 2 months dead?

:)
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by hutobega »

Sadly on here a lot... It's to no ones fault but GW for makign only a select few stick with Wood elves. And thats why i am scared for our next book if it even really happens haha
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by godswearhats »

I think traffic on the forum dies down over December due to holidays, so having the 8th thread down be a 6 weeks old is not terrible.

Also, there's very little threadomancy on here - generally we say anything is fair game that creates good debate :-)
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by LandonElf »

Phil Rossiter wrote:
LandonElf wrote:On a highborn, the Helm is much less useful.
Being M9 a Wild Rider will usually be getting the charge and it's a good way of ensuring you maintain his 5 attacks (key with no re-rolls). Plus he'll be trying to kill enemy WS 7 characters sometimes and hitting on 3's helps a lot.

On the whole I agree though.

EDIT:

My bad for threadomancy, didn't realise the topic was so long gone.

Again, no problem with threadomancy here.

If an extra attack is your primary concern, then potion of foolhardiness gets the job done, and for 15 points cheaper. Wildrider Highborns should not consider combat with other characters unless they have the Annoyance of Nettlings, which again, voids the use of the Helm of the Hunt as the opponent only hits on 6's and doesn't care about WS.

The only conceivable use of the Helm on a Highborn is for the extra armor point, wherein many could argue that even that doesn't work! (due to the wording of the wildrider kindred armor rules, which is itself an entirely different debate)
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Re: Helm o t hunt vs dragonhelm

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Thanks guys.

I feel there will be a lot of guys on here when the new book hits.

Have to disagree on the Helm though. Potion of Foolhardiness eats the Enchanted Item slot which I believe you need Potion of Strength for. S5 max from the spear will not kill armoured multi-wound models. I believe the general feeling on Asrai that you need to max out defence on characters is mistaken. This is an army that struggles to kill things, especially characters etc.. A Lord-level fighter is the best tool for this job, he needs to be maxed for killing. My build:

Spear of Twilight
Helm of the Hunt
Crystal Mere
Potion of Strength

Crystal Mere is key on the Stag because of cannon and fits well because if you lose it you still have the Wild Rider 5++/6++. Having a 4+ AS (I can vaguely see a rules issue but precisely?) helps against rank and file. Yes this defence is a bit iffy but should hold for a bit (and you can maybe buff Toughness or cast Curse if necessary). Round one he has 5 WS8, S8, I8 attacks with KB which is a threat to almost anything. This is before buffs of course.
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