Strangle-root Attack question

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Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Soltari » 10 Aug 2011, 19:29

Hi All,

I have a question about how to resolve stand and shoot reaction of Strangle-root Attack. Let say unit of White Liones charges from 10" and there is a wood between my TM and WLs (TM is in the wood), just up to 4" from my TM. So the unit of WLs need to go in the wood before both units are in base contact. Is the strength of roots resolving immediately when WLs enter 6" bubble of reach of Strangle-root, thus S4 or could we resolve it when WLs are in the wood, thus S5? I guess the first one, but just for sure. :)

When I mention White Lions, they have Lion Cloaks with +2AS bonus against shooting attacks - so it applies on Strangle-root Attack too, correct? It is just strange to imagine a cloak saving from rain of arrows, that can save from roots going from beneath too... :p

Thx for reply.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 10 Aug 2011, 22:17

Stand and shoot is always done, before the charging unit moves. Even if the unit is standing more inches away, as the maximum range of the shooting weapon. For simplicity, its done, as the unit is moving to a range, where they can be shot, but they dont move, before all shots from stand and shoot are done.

And yeah, Strangleroots is a shooting attack, so they get the armour.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Shandrakor » 10 Aug 2011, 22:19

Soltari wrote:I have a question about how to resolve stand and shoot reaction of Strangle-root Attack. Let say unit of White Liones charges from 10" and there is a wood between my TM and WLs (TM is in the wood), just up to 4" from my TM. So the unit of WLs need to go in the wood before both units are in base contact. Is the strength of roots resolving immediately when WLs enter 6" bubble of reach of Strangle-root, thus S4 or could we resolve it when WLs are in the wood, thus S5? I guess the first one, but just for sure. :)

Page 17 of the BRB states that the Stand and Shoot is launched at the unit's maximum shooting range as soon as the unit it's Stand and Shooting at comes within range. So you resolve the Strangle-roots at the 6" mark, whether the enemy unit is in a forest or not.

Soltari wrote:When I mention White Lions, they have Lion Cloaks with +2AS bonus against shooting attacks - so it applies on Strangle-root Attack too, correct? It is just strange to imagine a cloak saving from rain of arrows, that can save from roots going from beneath too... :p

Haven't you seen the movies where the main character swooshes their cloak in front of them to deflect the volley of arrows just shot at them? Now assume the White Lions have light as a feather (Elven made metal), metal cloaks, that they can just hold in front of them like shields, but they cover themselves better with it (full length cloak).
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby unicorn » 11 Aug 2011, 07:56

Shandrakor wrote:Page 17 of the BRB states that the Stand and Shoot is launched at the unit's maximum shooting range as soon as the unit it's Stand and Shooting at comes within range. So you resolve the Strangle-roots at the 6" mark, whether the enemy unit is in a forest or not.

That is not completely true, the BRB 17 stated simething slightly different:
A Stand and Shoot reaction can be declared against an enemy unit that starts its charge outside the firing unit's maximum range — the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon. If the charge fails, for whatever reason, we assume that the chargers closed to within the weapons' maximum range before being

The Stand and shoot attack is solved IMMEDIATELY after being declared, you do not wait for anything. You shoot the enemy unit where it is standing right in that moment, in the moment of charge declaration - not where it will be one phase later, in charge move phase. Because in that moment, your "stand-and-shooting" unit can be tens of inches away from it's original place, fleeing and unable to shoot at all.
Only the distance is considered to be different that IRL in case the attacker is outside of range of any of your weapons.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Shandrakor » 11 Aug 2011, 11:19

unicorn wrote:
A Stand and Shoot reaction can be declared against an enemy unit that starts its charge outside the firing unit's maximum range — the shooting is resolved normally assuming the enemy is just within maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest-ranged weapon. If the charge fails, for whatever reason, we assume that the chargers closed to within the weapons' maximum range before being

The Stand and shoot attack is solved IMMEDIATELY after being declared, you do not wait for anything. You shoot the enemy unit where it is standing right in that moment, in the moment of charge declaration - not where it will be one phase later, in charge move phase. Because in that moment, your "stand-and-shooting" unit can be tens of inches away from it's original place, fleeing and unable to shoot at all.
Only the distance is considered to be different that IRL in case the attacker is outside of range of any of your weapons.

So for this instance, what I said is what actually happens, but the Stand and Shoot is made immediately, just that the distance is whatever the unit is away, unless it's outside max range of the Stand and Shooter, in which case the range of the weapon is the distance of the Stand and Shoot.

And yeah, I didn't write everything out in the book because I typed it out in a hurry, so some things could probably be misconstrued from my original post.

End result, it's still 6" in the direction of the charger that you measure to determine if the unit would be in a forest or not for Strangle-roots unless the charger is shorter than that away from your Treeman. In that case, just measure to the unit (Dwarves charging from 5" away for example).
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Soltari » 11 Aug 2011, 16:27

Shandrakor wrote:End result, it's still 6" in the direction of the charger that you measure to determine if the unit would be in a forest or not for Strangle-roots unless the charger is shorter than that away from your Treeman. In that case, just measure to the unit (Dwarves charging from 5" away for example).


Thanks guys, this is exactly what I was looking for.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 11 Aug 2011, 21:59

No, its NOT 6" away. The only thing, you have to measure, while standing and shooting is, if you are in short range. Strangleroots hits always, so short range doesn`t matter. You are always assumed, to be in range.

Of you are standing 700" away and declare a charge (strange, I know, but i want a nasty example^^), your strangleroot has for stand and shoot 700" range. The attackers are moving, after stand and shoot is fully resolved.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Shandrakor » 12 Aug 2011, 04:11

Lighteater wrote:No, its NOT 6" away. The only thing, you have to measure, while standing and shooting is, if you are in short range. Strangleroots hits always, so short range doesn`t matter. You are always assumed, to be in range.

Of you are standing 700" away and declare a charge (strange, I know, but i want a nasty example^^), your strangleroot has for stand and shoot 700" range. The attackers are moving, after stand and shoot is fully resolved.

We aren't talking about the chance of hitting the enemy at all here Lighteater. We already know the shots will hit. We're talking about where they will hit so we know if the target is in or not in a forest to see if the known hits are at Strength 4 or 5 from Strangle-roots.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby unicorn » 12 Aug 2011, 08:12

Shandrakor wrote:We aren't talking about the chance of hitting the enemy at all here Lighteater. We already know the shots will hit. We're talking about where they will hit so we know if the target is in or not in a forest to see if the known hits are at Strength 4 or 5 from Strangle-roots.

Yep, and they hit immeditatelly, even if outside of the range.

BTW Shandro, I do not wish to attack you or anything, I just learned the hard way (as umpire of some tourneaments) that such "short" answers often lead to diseaster, as people often do not give what you say under any review and just blindly follow your statement. That is why I add the complete explanation.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 12 Aug 2011, 08:39

Thats why I used the unlikely example with 700" :nod:

No ranged attack has that range. I wanted to point out, that the only way, range does matter while standing and shooting, is when you shoot with a weapon, which needs a hit roll. And only to see, if you are in short range.

Else, range is irrelevant. So in the case of strangleroots, no measurements are done for stand and shoot. Just roll your number of hits, get the wounds and saves done and proceed to the next phase. The attackers are moved in the "move attackers"-phase.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Soltari » 14 Aug 2011, 18:45

Well, thank you all, I know now, when to resolve S4 or S5.

But this is also new for me:
Lighteater wrote:I wanted to point out, that the only way, range does matter while standing and shooting, is when you shoot with a weapon, which needs a hit roll. And only to see, if you are in short range.


Is it really like this, I havent seen anything like this on BRB page 17, there is "... Stand and Shoot reaction can only be declared if the range to the enemy is grater than the charging unit´s M characteristis." Nothing about autohits. So I can Stand and Shoot even when charge is from 2"?
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 14 Aug 2011, 21:19

Stand and shoot may always be used, if the charging unit must use some of its random charge movement. So, if a unit has a movement value of 4", you may always stand and shoot, if the unit is more than 4" away. There are 3 exceptions:

- You may not stand and shoot, if there is a rule, which forbids stand and shoot in general. For example, a charge move with the use of the spell Call of the wild Hunt.
- If the shooting unit owns the magic banner Aech, you may always stand and shoot.
- If the shooting unit or its weapons has a rule, which circumvents the rule for charge range. I don`t know the english name, there is a weaponrule, named "schnell schussbereit". Hm maybe "swift ready to fire"

So, weapon range and charge range is not the same thing, seems my post was a bit unclear in that matter. And Autohit is only, if the stand-and-shoot-attack will always autohit. Strangleroot is such a case.
Last edited by Lighteater on 15 Aug 2011, 07:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Kulgan86 » 14 Aug 2011, 21:57

Is it "quick to fire"?
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 15 Aug 2011, 07:07

Sounds good :D
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Soltari » 15 Aug 2011, 19:28

Ok, but I mean when unit with M5 is charging from let say 2", I can still stand and shoot with strangle root even whet it is from less tham M distance of charging unit?
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Lighteater » 15 Aug 2011, 21:23

No. You don`t have the banner or quick to fire. Strangleroot is still a shooting attack, albeit a strange one :D So normal rules for stand an shoot, except for 2 things:

- He hits automatic, so no attack rolls, and so no -1 for shooting in a SaS-reaction, hits always
- He can stand and shoot even if he can`t see his target
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Re: Strangle-root Attack question

Postby Soltari » 16 Aug 2011, 04:04

ok, thx, your post just confused me somehow :)
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