Stone of Rebirth

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Stone of Rebirth

Postby memnon » 21 Jun 2011, 21:15

The 2+ ward save bestowed by this item is activated when the character is reduced to 1 wound. What happens next? I say it ''remains in play'' as long as the character is not healed. "One use" means it is activated once,so it cannot be activated if the character is healed and then reduced to 1 wound again....But which is the proper use of this item? ...
Please let the sun shine and poor plenty of light on this matter!!!! Thanks! :D
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Kulgan86 » 21 Jun 2011, 21:38

Hello

Did you read the latest wood elf FAQ? it's ' faqqed ' there + plenty of other stuff is.

Either way here's what I remember of how it works : if at any givven time your character has one wound left the stone becomes activated. From then on you can use it for the remainder of the game. 2 points of attention:
- If your Hero looses two out of two wounds in the same Iniatiave phase of attacks in close combat the Hero is dead, the stone never activated.
- If your Hero has the activated stone and then regains wounds the stone remains activated. ( though some people tend to think differently here, I think they need to go get me a shrubbery! )
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby memnon » 21 Jun 2011, 21:43

So,if a noble ,with the stone is wounded by 2 attacks ie. in close combat,he is dead? (he has 2 wounds) ...Over this matter,aren't the wounds resolved one-at-a-time? Are they resolved by initiative,at the same time? (in which case the stone cannot be acticated)
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Beithir Seun » 21 Jun 2011, 21:55

This is all in the FAQ, and has been addressed in several other threads. Just do a search for "Stone of Rebirth" and read the FAQ, and you'll have all the answers you need.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Eru-Andon'Fang » 21 Jun 2011, 23:07

All I see ing FAQ is that it can not be used on an attack that will kill you outright, and it can be used more than once.

Nothing about what happens if you are healed. I know that there are other threads debating this question, I'm just wondering if I'm missing something in the FAQ, or if there is a new one that addresses this question and I'm not finding it or something.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Beithir Seun » 22 Jun 2011, 00:38

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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Noght » 22 Jun 2011, 16:23

Ok, just to confirm (because the non-answer answers didn't really answer anything other than linking to threads that failed to answer the question.)

Stone of Rebirth: 30 points. One use only.
When the bearer is reduced to one Wound this item bestows a 2+ Ward Save.

Wood Elf FAQ:
Q. Does the Stone of Rebirth activate if the bearer is wounded by an
attack that would kill the model outright? (p64)
A. No.

Q. May the ward save bestowed by the Stone of Rebirth be used
more than once? (p64)
A. Yes.

So Killing Blow and Multi-wound weapons can kill the Weaver outright without the Stone activating...check.
Ward Save can be used multiple times...check.
If you are a Lifeweaver and you heal yourself up from 1 wound, the Stone DOES NOT deactivate, so the 2+ Ward Save remains in effect...check. (Though some of the threads on Warseer would argue otherwise, nothing on this forum about this specifically, just vague comments.)

My plan is to use a Glamourweave Lifeweaver on a Unicorn with Crown of Command, Annoyance of Nettlings, and Stone of Rebirth (in a unit of Treekin).

So what happens if:
Recieving multiple wounds in a single combat? Do you roll them seperately until you reach one wound at which point the Stone activates? Or will 3 unsaved wounds vs your Glamourweave 5+ Ward Save kill you outright without the Stone activating?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Eru-Andon'Fang » 22 Jun 2011, 19:44

The FAQ asks the question if an (singular) attack will kill you outright. Not multiple attacks from one model. So if the single attack has KB or multiply wounds that could kill you outright you don't get the ward save. But if a single model has multiple attacks that cause single regular wounds, (or any other form of combat getting multiple attacks, a unit attacks, stomp attacks, impact hits, shooting whatever) none individual will kill you outright, so they are resolved individually, when you are reduced to one wound you then get the save for the remaining wounds.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby SneakyElf » 27 Jun 2011, 16:31

Noght wrote:If you are a Lifeweaver and you heal yourself up from 1 wound, the Stone DOES NOT deactivate, so the 2+ Ward Save remains in effect...check. (Though some of the threads on Warseer would argue otherwise, nothing on this forum about this specifically, just vague comments.)

I agree with Noght on this one. There is no official statement that says the ward save is lost if the character goes above 1 wound. It simply activates at one wound, and the character now has a 2+ ward save, hooray. Although some would argue otherwise (especially people that I play against), these are just opinions and guesses based on the relatively low cost of this item. The problem is, I don't really feel like using this item, because everytime I do, it starts an argument on whether or not I can use it after being healed. Probably been said already, but GW should REALLY clarify this with a simple yes or no
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby unicorn » 28 Jun 2011, 11:30

Is it really necessary to have 59697 threads about the some topic, every single one of them filled with the very some arguments for and against?
This issue is unclear. There is no definitive answer. You may believe in your interpretation as much as you wish, but it will not make it absolute true right now. The rules are so much screwed by FAQ that noone really knows how it works, we all can only guess.

So, unless there will be new FAQ which will bring new light into this issue, please for the gods sake STOP WITH THIS ALREADY! Such discussions will bring nothing neither to you nor to anyone else. We have enough topics and posts about this issue already...
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Noght » 28 Jun 2011, 12:15

unicorn wrote:Is it really necessary to have 59697 threads about the some topic, every single one of them filled with the very some arguments for and against?
This issue is unclear. There is no definitive answer. You may believe in your interpretation as much as you wish, but it will not make it absolute true right now. The rules are so much screwed by FAQ that noone really knows how it works, we all can only guess.

So, unless there will be new FAQ which will bring new light into this issue, please for the gods sake STOP WITH THIS ALREADY! Such discussions will bring nothing neither to you nor to anyone else. We have enough topics and posts about this issue already...


Ok...I searched...2 Threads (not quite 60,000 but close, thanks to Beither for the links btw)...722 posts (95% of them Army Lists). All the "discussion" in those linked threads "hinted" that there was a correct way to play it but no one actually said what the correct way was, default answers like, "it's in the FAQ" littered the various forums. So I made the mistake of asking about a Wood Elf item on a Wood Elf Board and Unicorn lays down the smack. Thanks for nothing, won't make the mistake again.

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p.s. I find it interesting that one guy (Unicorn) gets to dictate the course of discussion threads, especially rules questions. He is always right and he's generally "less than polite" in his posts. So a quick note to you Newbies that are showing up, don't ask, use the search, read through the chaff without a clear answer, ask you're "stupid" question and wait for Unicorn to drop by, it's a treat.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Shandrakor » 28 Jun 2011, 12:29

Yeah, so no reason to be uncivil, for both sides here...

Anyways, from what I've seen most people use for the interpretation of the rules on the Stone of Rebirth.

1.) Almost everyone agrees that when the bearer is reduced to 1 Wound remaining. The bearer gains a 2+ Ward Save that is reusable for as long as the bearer remains at 1 Wound remaining.

2.) The bearer is healed above 1 Wound remaining and because the item didn't lose its "One Use Only" attribute, some people say that removes the Ward Save and you won't gain it again when reduced to 1 Wound remaining again.

3.) The counter argument says that you retain the 2+ Ward Save even if healed above 1 Wound remaining and can use the Ward Save as many times as you want. Some people use this interpretation, but most think this is a little abusive to have a 2+ Ward Save for more than 1 Wound remaining (especially for a such a comparatively cheap item).

That's what I've seen debated at least. There may be more opinions on the matter, but those seemed to make the most sense to me anyways. Either way, the GW FAQ doesn't exactly make the issue any clearer.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Noght » 28 Jun 2011, 13:02

Thanks for the post Shand.

I agree it's unclear, the FAQ doesn't help and opinion varies all over the boards.
I just asked my Tourney Organizer how he'd rule in advance or check with your opponent.
Regarding cost, at least it's not like a 35 point reverse ward Dark Elf pendant or anything... :wink: , it's way more overpowered than that.

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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Eru-Andon'Fang » 28 Jun 2011, 20:33

Noght wrote:So a quick note to you Newbies that are showing up, don't ask, use the search, read through the chaff without a clear answer, ask you're "stupid" question and wait...


I've found this to be the case on most game forums. I greatly fear posting a question on this forum, along with the other warhammer forums I'm on. I think most long time players just get annoyed by the newbies. What makes matters worse is most forum searches are sub par.

I usually end up just calling my local GW store instead. Antonio is more than happy to try to answer any question I have and always very nice about it.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Noght » 28 Jun 2011, 23:28

Eru-Andon'Fang wrote:
Noght wrote:So a quick note to you Newbies that are showing up, don't ask, use the search, read through the chaff without a clear answer, ask you're "stupid" question and wait...


I've found this to be the case on most game forums. I greatly fear posting a question on this forum, along with the other warhammer forums I'm on. I think most long time players just get annoyed by the newbies. What makes matters worse is most forum searches are sub par.

I usually end up just calling my local GW store instead. Antonio is more than happy to try to answer any question I have and always very nice about it.


And that is a damn shame. You'd think that being civil and pointing out the correct rules/tactica would be the right thing to do.
Welcome and hope you have a better experience here than mine has been lately.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Kulgan86 » 28 Jun 2011, 23:58

I'm never ever angry at ' newbs ' for posting ' obvious ' questions that the member of this forum have seen a hundred times before. Noone should be, if anyone feels this way it's a false sentiment of veteranhood you have no right to utlitise to criticise new players. You were once like this, or worse. They may learn as well as you did.
The only thing I don't like is people who start topics with no attention to grammar, spelling, a proper title, etc etc.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Git » 29 Jun 2011, 11:00

Kulgan86 wrote:I'm never ever angry at ' newbs ' for posting ' obvious ' questions that the member of this forum have seen a hundred times before. Noone should be, if anyone feels this way it's a false sentiment of veteranhood you have no right to utlitise to criticise new players. You were once like this, or worse. They may learn as well as you did.
The only thing I don't like is people who start topics with no attention to grammar, spelling, a proper title, etc etc.


Seconded. And I must say that as a fairly new member to this forum I'm surprised about the level of hostility in some posts and arguments. Most forums I've attended always have discussions of some kind, but people are almost always respectful towards each others differing opinions in questions where there clearly is no right answer. And all forums have annoying noobs, who disregard rules, spelling and common courtesy and the search function. Senior members should always (in my opinion) do their best to lead the noobs onto a better path with telling them what they do wrong in a kind way, and also telling them how to do it better.

If someone new asks a question that has been asked a million times before we should answer something like this: "Hello, welcome to the forum! The question you asked is highly debated on this and other forums. If you use the search function, on the right side of the bar almost on the top of this page, you can find various threads discussing the matter. Since you're new I've taken a couple of minutes to provide you a few links, just here: LINK 1, LINK 2, LINK 3. Enjoy your stay!"

When someone doesn't even try to write with good grammar, spelling and such we must be sure to tell them that we much more appreciate correct writing because that makes the text much easier to read and people will be much more willing to read your post and help you out. What we do need to keep in mind however, is the fact that many posters (me included) do not have English as our first language, and some are more or less self-taught. Other people may suffer from dyslexia, and can't help that writing is difficult.

My point is: Don't berate people for making a mistake unless you know the reason behind it is just because they were lazy. All other reasons are OK, in my mind.
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Re: Stone of Rebirth

Postby Beithir Seun » 01 Jul 2011, 16:45

While the points made may be valid, this is not the place to air them. If anyone has problems with the conduct of other members, they should contact one of the Council of Elders via PM rather than start a discussion about it.
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