Transformation of Kadon

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Cynath Auren
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Transformation of Kadon

Post by Cynath Auren »

Not quite sure where this should go, and also appreciate it's probably a bit of a trivial question: if a mage casts Transformation of Kadon, does his base size change? E.g. 20^2mm to 50^2mm?
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by popisdead »

The model is entirely replaced. Look for the new Mountain Chimera model from GW this summer. There is also a Hydra and Manticore model already in the range.

Notice the other stipulation about if the model cannot be placed the spell fails.

The spell can open a can of worms as far as model (re)placement.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Cynath Auren »

Or even of Wyrm, in some cases... Thanks, good to get that straight! (and to have an excuse to paint monsters in the future).
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Frimbleglim »

Sadly if you want to transform into a great fire dragon this is actually the forge world fire dragon. It goes on a BIG base. Verry very big. I don't suggest you buy the thing. Not unless you really like painting but can't do fiddly details. ;)
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Cynath Auren »

Heh, and in order to transform your mage has to be in an empty table quarter or there's no room.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by popisdead »

Frimbleglim wrote:Sadly if you want to transform into a great fire dragon this is actually the forge world fire dragon. It goes on a BIG base. Verry very big.
OMG! I CANNOT STRESS THIS SAME POINT ENOUGH!

If some jerk brought a DE dragon on a 50 mm square base for a monster with 8s buffing it's stats line I would pick it up and force it through his nostrils into his sinuses. Every example of this spell on GWs website has been using the FW Dragon.

Imagine a Mt Chimera in Bestigors who have the flaming banner. 4D6 Flaming Poison Hatred attacks with S4 breath weapona and Thunderstomp! That Mountain Chimera better be an appropriate size (Bane Beasts comes to mind).
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by untravel »

Um, why does it have to be the Forge World model? I don't remember seeing anything in rules or FAQs about that. I understand that it ought to be a monster sized base, but requiring a particular model seems a bit strange to me. Not only would requiring that particular Forge World model preclude the possibility of using a conversion, it would also exclude anyone from the game that doesn't have $240 (143 pounds/160 euros) to spend on a toy. If I was interested in playing a game with a minimum wealth requirement, I'd take up golf.

I like Warhammer, but I made my army on the cheap--out of necessity. I don't have a lot of money, especially not for entertainment expenses like warhammer models. If it's WYSIWYG and looks OK, what else matters? If someone complained that I didn't spend enough money on my army (or attempted to force my model up my nose...), I don't think I'd be inclined to ever play them. Thankfully, none of my regular opponents are so inclined.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so confrontational, and perhaps I've misunderstood your point. If that is the case, could you explain your position in more detail (why Forge World/why 50mm is so troublesome/etc.)? I like my sinuses. :)

(For the record, I'm in the process of converting up a McFarlane dragon that I bought for 18 euros (26 dollars)--about 1/9th the price of the model I 'need'. It's pretty big, but I haven't based it yet. It's on this little flying stand, so I think I can base it on pretty much any size. If there are some guidelines somewhere about what base would be appropriate, I'd be very interested to hear about them.)
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Tachunka »

I have the old DE dragon with Rakarth now Malkieth. It works fine on it 40x40.

Chimera is the 3 headed beastie, right?
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Frimbleglim »

untravel wrote:Um, why does it have to be the Forge World model? I don't remember seeing anything in rules or FAQs about that. I understand that it ought to be a monster sized base, but requiring a particular model seems a bit strange to me. Not only would requiring that particular Forge World model preclude the possibility of using a conversion, it would also exclude anyone from the game that doesn't have $240 (143 pounds/160 euros) to spend on a toy. If I was interested in playing a game with a minimum wealth requirement, I'd take up golf.

I like Warhammer, but I made my army on the cheap--out of necessity. I don't have a lot of money, especially not for entertainment expenses like warhammer models. If it's WYSIWYG and looks OK, what else matters? If someone complained that I didn't spend enough money on my army (or attempted to force my model up my nose...), I don't think I'd be inclined to ever play them. Thankfully, none of my regular opponents are so inclined.

Sorry, I don't mean to be so confrontational, and perhaps I've misunderstood your point. If that is the case, could you explain your position in more detail (why Forge World/why 50mm is so troublesome/etc.)? I like my sinuses. :)

(For the record, I'm in the process of converting up a McFarlane dragon that I bought for 18 euros (26 dollars)--about 1/9th the price of the model I 'need'. It's pretty big, but I haven't based it yet. It's on this little flying stand, so I think I can base it on pretty much any size. If there are some guidelines somewhere about what base would be appropriate, I'd be very interested to hear about them.)
The issue here is the base not the model. The model needs to go on a really really big base. not 40mmx40mm not 50mmx50mm but more like 150mmx150mm. Otherwise it is a really really unfair spell.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by popisdead »

Frimbleglim wrote:The issue here is the base not the model. The model needs to go on a really really big base. not 40mmx40mm not 50mmx50mm but more like 150mmx150mm. Otherwise it is a really really unfair spell.
The Sun dragon is on a chariot base with 7s on the statline. you are trying to put a larger dragon on an Ogre base? I would call blatent cheating. Even at 50 mm square I would suggest the person think about the disadvantage and point it out.

Even the Hydra (and new sepulchur stalkers) are on chariot bases. GW is on a constant trend of large monsters with big bases.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by untravel »

I wasn't planning on putting my dragon on an Ogre base. That's only 40mm, right? I was thinking of using more like a chariot base, like the newer High Elf dragon model. I would agree that the Great Fire Dragon and Mountain Chimera should be at least as big as the Hydra (=chariot base). That being said, a 50x100mm base the same frontage as a 50mm square base, so an attacked unit would still get the same number of attacks back. I guess I don't understand the reasons behind the hostility. If my opponent gets the same number of attacks back, what other difference would it make?

If the base should have a bigger frontage, how would I be able to determine what that is? 150x150 sounds too arbitrary. If has to be bigger than a chariot base, wouldn't the base size for the Arachnarok Spider or Screaming Bell or one of those other 'oversized' models be better? I'm just asking--I don't know the exact measurements for any of those.

I guess don't understand why GW product 'trends' would be a rule in the game, or how not following them would be cheating, unless there's some kind of FAQ or errata that I've missed. If new trends were rules, then players with older models would be excluded. I always thought that was the reason GW doesn't give 'official' bases size restrictions.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Bad Beast »

The problem is that they don't have an up to date base chart so nobody knows what size base a lot of monsters are supposed to be on.

for example, is my cygor in the beastmen army supposed to be on a 50x50 base, or a 50x75 base like a giant, or a as yet to be disclosed base size like the anarok spider or the new tomb king Sphinx's (if anybody happens to know the actual dimensions of the spider the hellpit abomination and the sphinx's i'd love to know)
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Git »

The Arachnaroc spider is on a 100x150 mm base. The Hell Pit Abomination is on a 60x100 mm base. I don't know the Sphinx's, unfortunately.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Salamander »

Topic moved to correct forum.

I do beleave the sfinx is on a 50x150mm base. Atleast when I saw it last wedsnday it seemed that way :)
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Frimbleglim »

By the pictures on the forge world website the correct base size is probably about 200mm-250mm square.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Salamander »

I'm pretty certain the sfinx isn't 200mm wide.... 100x 150mm looked like it was the base size when I saw the unpacked version last wednsday...

EDIT: But maybe you were talking about the firedragon?
Last edited by Salamander on 30 Apr 2011, 14:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Frimbleglim »

Salamander wrote:I'm pretty certain the sfinx isn't 200mm wide.... 100x 150mm looked like it was the base size when I saw the unpacked version last wednsday...

EDIT: But maybe you were talking about the firedragon?
Yes, sorry I should have been clear on that. The fire dragon not the sphinx. This is based on the fact that it wouldn't actually fit on a base much smaller on that from their pictures rather than that this is what it appears to be on.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Salamander »

Yeah

I agree then ;)

Besides, its on a scenic base for photo purposes, it says so on the description.
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Gildesh »

it usually says in the model description on the gw website what size base is suplied with the mini
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Bad Beast »

Gildesh wrote:it usually says in the model description on the gw website what size base is suplied with the mini
ahh, nice to know, in the instances where the model is available, (such as the ones i asked about) however, it doesn't help with the multiple monsters for which no model has been released yet (most of the rares in the beastmen book, and the monsters from the transformation of kadon spell)
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by jonke75 »

Any dragon model is suitable as great fire dragon so unfortunatly this gives a wide range of 40mm, 50mm and chariot bases available. This is due to the rediculous rule of allowing the base the model was delivered with. Bu as I'm a fair player all dragons should have the new dragon base (chariot size).
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by Cynath Auren »

I'm thinking of making a mage transforming into a Black Dragon (gonna do it passing through an arch of branches, since any other way I can think of looks a bit lame due to models' respective sizes). Would the general consensus be that this should have a Chariot base or a 50\times50?
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by jonke75 »

The new dragon base (chariot type) or any 50x50 base would be allowed for dragons. With a litle bit of GW rulebanding you could perhaps slip through the cracks with a wood elf dragon on 40x40 since they were sold with that one, but that would be on the borderline of cheesy since a 50mm base is not that expensive and that is the official dragon base for all dragons except for the new High Elf one.

I believe the new GW monster base will be the dragon (chariot) base from now on.

Can anyone confirm that the new Sfinx is delivered with chariot base?
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Re: Transformation of Kadon

Post by unicorn »

jonke75 wrote:Can anyone confirm that the new Sfinx is delivered with chariot base?
Yeah, chariot one
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