Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
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- Strongbow
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Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Unless I miss my mark, it is permissible to take a magical shield and still put light armor on our nobles and highborns. Is that assumption correct?
What about helms, which generally infer a "+1 to AS" as part of their characteristics. As they are helms, and not suits of armor, and since they provide a bonus to armor, and not an actual armor save itself, can they be combined with light armor?
For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?
What about helms, which generally infer a "+1 to AS" as part of their characteristics. As they are helms, and not suits of armor, and since they provide a bonus to armor, and not an actual armor save itself, can they be combined with light armor?
For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?
- Strongbow
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Thanks Gildesh.
- Shandrakor
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Yeah, since we can't take normal Heavy Armor, we get stuck with the best on foot you can get for armor is a 4+ and mounted's best is a 3+ armor save, unless you use the Armor of Silvered Steel's 2+.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
- unicorn
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Still, 3+ AS and 3 wounds on 180-pts worth noble is pretty decent scoreShandrakor wrote:Yeah, since we can't take normal Heavy Armor, we get stuck with the best on foot you can get for armor is a 4+ and mounted's best is a 3+ armor save, unless you use the Armor of Silvered Steel's 2+.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Shandrakor
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Meh, when every other army has a higher toughness and/or armor save without magic gear I don't really get excited for it.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
- Tachunka
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Annoyance of netlings and armor of silvered steel combined would mean that an opponent would need a natural 6 to hit?
- Shandrakor
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Huh? Armor of Silvered Steel is just a 2+ not improvable armor save. Annoyance of Nettlings already provides only hit on a natural 6 in challenges by itself.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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- Horsemaster
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Strongbow asked;
You could use the ES for the same effect (4+/3+ AS) unless you're chasing the 2+ Ward for flaming. It'll come out 7 points cheaper.For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?
- Strongbow
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Good point, Mabelode. I just wanted clarification on what I thought I saw.
Note, however, that the BSB cannot take a shield. Generally, I don't put a magic banner with her, as I'm just looking for the re-rollable for my Eternal Guard unit. So, I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.
Realizing that the +1 AS from the Dragonhelm combines with her light armor for a 5+ AS isn't earth shattering, but it is a little icing on the cupcake.
Note, however, that the BSB cannot take a shield. Generally, I don't put a magic banner with her, as I'm just looking for the re-rollable for my Eternal Guard unit. So, I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.
Realizing that the +1 AS from the Dragonhelm combines with her light armor for a 5+ AS isn't earth shattering, but it is a little icing on the cupcake.
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Strongbow said:
And it's the best bit toolittle icing on the cupcake.
Not knowing what's in the rest of your list, you've used the full 50pts so why not Armour of Silvered Steel and Dragonbane Gem.I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor.
In the same unit you end up with 2+AS, 5+WS, and 2+WS v flaming. Remember that the 2+ from the Stone is one use only and the increased AS looks very good.I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.
- Strongbow
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
If I remember correctly, the text for the Armor of Silvered Steel says that it confers a 2+ AS that cannot be modified in any way. I've always read that to mean that you cannot add a shield or a helm to modify it.mabelode wrote:In the same unit you end up with 2+AS, 5+WS, and 2+WS v flaming. Remember that the 2+ from the Stone is one use only and the increased AS looks very good.
[Edit: Adding a helm would be an illegal build, so a moot point.]
Does that text also mean that armor piercing and high strength hits do not modify the 2+ AS as well? If so, then it would be preferable over the Stone of Rebirth. However, I've never read it as such.
Mabelode, the current reading of the Stone of Rebirth, unless I'm missing something, is that once per game it confers a 2+ ward save when the model is reduced to 1 wound. It does not say that the 2+ ward save goes away after that. So, the current reading is that the model will get a 2+ ward save that stays in effect from that point on, provided that the model does not regain wounds (and so loose the effect as stipulated in its text).
The difference between the two, if I'm seeing it right, is that the 2+ armor save can be modified by armor piercing or high strenght hits, while the 2+ ward save will not. If I'm right about how the Armor of Silvered Steel works, then the Stone of Rebirth will likely result in greater survivability.
Me, I'd match the Armor of Silvered Steel up with the Dawnstone and something like the Sword of Anti-heros for challenges. Of course, that build would take a Highborn to achieve, but would be pretty survivable! Think of it on an alter highborn, for example...
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
You're right, you have a 2+ no matter what.If I remember correctly, the text for the Armor of Silvered Steel says that it confers a 2+ AS that cannot be modified in any way. I've always read that to mean that you cannot add a shield or a helm to modify it.
In a way you're confusing me a little because;
There's a difference between a BSB and a Noble;Note, however, that the BSB cannot take a shield. Generally, I don't put a magic banner with her, as I'm just looking for the re-rollable for my Eternal Guard unit. So, I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.
So for now I'll stick with it as I've assumed you meant a BSB.For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?
Also the Stone is "one use only" (AB P.64) so once it's used at 1 wound and the 2+ Ward is applied that's it, no more applications.
(I'm sure this has come up before so please correct me if I'm wrong ).
Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
The Stone of Rebirth was changed in our FAQ. It's now a "one use only" item that provides a save that can "be used more than once."
The current interpretation is that being reduced to one wound grants you an unlimited use 2+ ward save, but that can only occur once - that is, if the bearer's wounds are healed, he or she loses the ward save and won't gain it a second time if reduced to one wound again.
The current interpretation is that being reduced to one wound grants you an unlimited use 2+ ward save, but that can only occur once - that is, if the bearer's wounds are healed, he or she loses the ward save and won't gain it a second time if reduced to one wound again.
- unicorn
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
ExactlyKertilien wrote:The current interpretation is that being reduced to one wound grants you an unlimited use 2+ ward save, but that can only occur once - that is, if the bearer's wounds are healed, he or she loses the ward save and won't gain it a second time if reduced to one wound again.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Strongbow
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Mabelode, I am using the English version of the game. Are you as well? From my understanding, a battle standard bearer (BSB) is a 15 pt. upgrade to a noble.mabelode wrote:There's a difference between a BSB and a Noble
- unicorn
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
I think he just wish to say that by "noble" means "non-BSB noble" and by "BSB" he menas... Well, BSBStrongbow wrote:Mabelode, I am using the English version of the game. Are you as well? From my understanding, a battle standard bearer (BSB) is a 15 pt. upgrade to a noble.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Tachunka
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Sorry about the mistake I made in my post. I am trying to determine if the Armor of Glittering Scales and Annoyance of Nettlings would make your character impossible to hit? If it is even possible.
Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Two things:
- You can get a better mundane armour save by making your Noble an Eternal Guardian.
- If you're taking the Armour of Silvered Steel, you should always take the talisman Luckstone together with it. It allows you to re roll a single armour save, combined with a 2+ As it's a great item for 5 points.
- You can get a better mundane armour save by making your Noble an Eternal Guardian.
- If you're taking the Armour of Silvered Steel, you should always take the talisman Luckstone together with it. It allows you to re roll a single armour save, combined with a 2+ As it's a great item for 5 points.
- Shandrakor
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
No, you can never be impossible to hit. A natural 6 is always a hit, and a natural 1 is always a miss in close combat.Tachunka wrote:Sorry about the mistake I made in my post. I am trying to determine if the Armor of Glittering Scales and Annoyance of Nettlings would make your character impossible to hit? If it is even possible.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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- Horsemaster
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- Joined: 25 Jun 2009, 07:07
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
Thanks Uni, and sorry Strongbow that's exactly what I meant. I was trying to clarify the shield issue as you're right, a Noble can have one but a BSB can't, hence Silvered Steel for the BSB.I think he just wish to say that by "noble" means "non-BSB noble" and by "BSB" he menas... Well, BSB
I'd forgotten the FAQ on the Stone so your set up makes very good sense .
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Re: Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor
@mabelode: Cool. Sorry for the confusion on my part.
I've never really used the Luckstone, but I can see the merit in it for its points cost. Generally, however, I go with the Dawnstone. Especially for the Eternal Kin noble/highborn, who can expect to get stuck into combat for an extended period of time, the unlimited use of the Dawnstone strikes me as worth the extra 20 points.
However, I can see the use of the armour of silvered steel and the luckstone on the BSB. Good idea! The only drawback is that I can't put a sword of might or sword of battle on her then.
Kulgan86, I'm actually a big fan of the Eternal Guard noble/highborn. It's cheap, especially for the 5+ AS and the extra attack. Also, since I run a unit of Eternal Guard, it just seems to fit.Kulgan86 wrote:Two things:
- You can get a better mundane armour save by making your Noble an Eternal Guardian.
- If you're taking the Armour of Silvered Steel, you should always take the talisman Luckstone together with it. It allows you to re roll a single armour save, combined with a 2+ As it's a great item for 5 points.
I've never really used the Luckstone, but I can see the merit in it for its points cost. Generally, however, I go with the Dawnstone. Especially for the Eternal Kin noble/highborn, who can expect to get stuck into combat for an extended period of time, the unlimited use of the Dawnstone strikes me as worth the extra 20 points.
However, I can see the use of the armour of silvered steel and the luckstone on the BSB. Good idea! The only drawback is that I can't put a sword of might or sword of battle on her then.