Magical "Armor" Items and Mundane Armor

[Strongbow]

Unless I miss my mark, it is permissible to take a magical shield and still put light armor on our nobles and highborns. Is that assumption correct?

What about helms, which generally infer a "+1 to AS" as part of their characteristics. As they are helms, and not suits of armor, and since they provide a bonus to armor, and not an actual armor save itself, can they be combined with light armor?

For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?

[Gildesh]

yes your assumption is correct.

[Strongbow]

Thanks Gildesh.

[Shandrakor]

Yeah, since we can't take normal Heavy Armor, we get stuck with the best on foot you can get for armor is a 4+ and mounted's best is a 3+ armor save, unless you use the Armor of Silvered Steel's 2+.

[unicorn]

Yeah, since we can't take normal Heavy Armor, we get stuck with the best on foot you can get for armor is a 4+ and mounted's best is a 3+ armor save, unless you use the Armor of Silvered Steel's 2+.

Still, 3+ AS and 3 wounds on 180-pts worth noble is pretty decent score

[Shandrakor]

Meh, when every other army has a higher toughness and/or armor save without magic gear I don't really get excited for it.

[Tachunka]

Annoyance of netlings and armor of silvered steel combined would mean that an opponent would need a natural 6 to hit?

[Shandrakor]

Huh? Armor of Silvered Steel is just a 2+ not improvable armor save. Annoyance of Nettlings already provides only hit on a natural 6 in challenges by itself.

[mabelode]

Strongbow asked;

For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?

You could use the ES for the same effect (4+/3+ AS) unless you're chasing the 2+ Ward for flaming. It'll come out 7 points cheaper.

[Strongbow]

Good point, Mabelode. I just wanted clarification on what I thought I saw.

Note, however, that the BSB cannot take a shield. Generally, I don't put a magic banner with her, as I'm just looking for the re-rollable for my Eternal Guard unit. So, I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.

Realizing that the +1 AS from the Dragonhelm combines with her light armor for a 5+ AS isn't earth shattering, but it is a little icing on the cupcake.

[mabelode]

Strongbow said:

little icing on the cupcake.

And it's the best bit too

I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor.

Not knowing what's in the rest of your list, you've used the full 50pts so why not Armour of Silvered Steel and Dragonbane Gem.

I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.

In the same unit you end up with 2+AS, 5+WS, and 2+WS v flaming. Remember that the 2+ from the Stone is one use only and the increased AS looks very good.

[Strongbow]

In the same unit you end up with 2+AS, 5+WS, and 2+WS v flaming. Remember that the 2+ from the Stone is one use only and the increased AS looks very good.

If I remember correctly, the text for the Armor of Silvered Steel says that it confers a 2+ AS that cannot be modified in any way. I've always read that to mean that you cannot add a shield or a helm to modify it.

[Edit: Adding a helm would be an illegal build, so a moot point.]

Does that text also mean that armor piercing and high strength hits do not modify the 2+ AS as well? If so, then it would be preferable over the Stone of Rebirth. However, I've never read it as such.

Mabelode, the current reading of the Stone of Rebirth, unless I'm missing something, is that once per game it confers a 2+ ward save when the model is reduced to 1 wound. It does not say that the 2+ ward save goes away after that. So, the current reading is that the model will get a 2+ ward save that stays in effect from that point on, provided that the model does not regain wounds (and so loose the effect as stipulated in its text).

The difference between the two, if I'm seeing it right, is that the 2+ armor save can be modified by armor piercing or high strenght hits, while the 2+ ward save will not. If I'm right about how the Armor of Silvered Steel works, then the Stone of Rebirth will likely result in greater survivability.

Me, I'd match the Armor of Silvered Steel up with the Dawnstone and something like the Sword of Anti-heros for challenges. Of course, that build would take a Highborn to achieve, but would be pretty survivable! Think of it on an alter highborn, for example...

[mabelode]

If I remember correctly, the text for the Armor of Silvered Steel says that it confers a 2+ AS that cannot be modified in any way. I've always read that to mean that you cannot add a shield or a helm to modify it.

You're right, you have a 2+ no matter what.
In a way you're confusing me a little because;

Note, however, that the BSB cannot take a shield. Generally, I don't put a magic banner with her, as I'm just looking for the re-rollable for my Eternal Guard unit. So, I go for survivability. In my most current build, I've got her with the Stone of Rebirth, Dragonhelm, Relic Sword and light armor. She's in a unit with the Rhymer's Harp, so she gets a 5+ AS, a 5+ WS in general, a 2+ WS vs. flaming and a 2+ general WS when she drops to one wound.

There's a difference between a BSB and a Noble;

For example, if I have a noble, can I place light armor and a shield on her, then place the dragon helm on her, for an AS of 4+?

So for now I'll stick with it as I've assumed you meant a BSB.
Also the Stone is "one use only" (AB P.64) so once it's used at 1 wound and the 2+ Ward is applied that's it, no more applications.
(I'm sure this has come up before so please correct me if I'm wrong ).

[Kertilien]

The Stone of Rebirth was changed in our FAQ. It's now a "one use only" item that provides a save that can "be used more than once."

The current interpretation is that being reduced to one wound grants you an unlimited use 2+ ward save, but that can only occur once - that is, if the bearer's wounds are healed, he or she loses the ward save and won't gain it a second time if reduced to one wound again.

[unicorn]

The current interpretation is that being reduced to one wound grants you an unlimited use 2+ ward save, but that can only occur once - that is, if the bearer's wounds are healed, he or she loses the ward save and won't gain it a second time if reduced to one wound again.

Exactly

[Strongbow]

There's a difference between a BSB and a Noble

Mabelode, I am using the English version of the game. Are you as well? From my understanding, a battle standard bearer (BSB) is a 15 pt. upgrade to a noble.

[unicorn]

Mabelode, I am using the English version of the game. Are you as well? From my understanding, a battle standard bearer (BSB) is a 15 pt. upgrade to a noble.

I think he just wish to say that by "noble" means "non-BSB noble" and by "BSB" he menas... Well, BSB

[Tachunka]

Sorry about the mistake I made in my post. I am trying to determine if the Armor of Glittering Scales and Annoyance of Nettlings would make your character impossible to hit? If it is even possible.

[Kulgan86]

Two things:

- You can get a better mundane armour save by making your Noble an Eternal Guardian.

- If you're taking the Armour of Silvered Steel, you should always take the talisman Luckstone together with it. It allows you to re roll a single armour save, combined with a 2+ As it's a great item for 5 points.

[Shandrakor]

Sorry about the mistake I made in my post. I am trying to determine if the Armor of Glittering Scales and Annoyance of Nettlings would make your character impossible to hit? If it is even possible.

No, you can never be impossible to hit. A natural 6 is always a hit, and a natural 1 is always a miss in close combat.

[mabelode]

I think he just wish to say that by "noble" means "non-BSB noble" and by "BSB" he menas... Well, BSB

Thanks Uni, and sorry Strongbow that's exactly what I meant. I was trying to clarify the shield issue as you're right, a Noble can have one but a BSB can't, hence Silvered Steel for the BSB.
I'd forgotten the FAQ on the Stone so your set up makes very good sense .

[Strongbow]

@mabelode: Cool. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

Two things:

- You can get a better mundane armour save by making your Noble an Eternal Guardian.

- If you're taking the Armour of Silvered Steel, you should always take the talisman Luckstone together with it. It allows you to re roll a single armour save, combined with a 2+ As it's a great item for 5 points.

Kulgan86, I'm actually a big fan of the Eternal Guard noble/highborn. It's cheap, especially for the 5+ AS and the extra attack. Also, since I run a unit of Eternal Guard, it just seems to fit.

I've never really used the Luckstone, but I can see the merit in it for its points cost. Generally, however, I go with the Dawnstone. Especially for the Eternal Kin noble/highborn, who can expect to get stuck into combat for an extended period of time, the unlimited use of the Dawnstone strikes me as worth the extra 20 points.

However, I can see the use of the armour of silvered steel and the luckstone on the BSB. Good idea! The only drawback is that I can't put a sword of might or sword of battle on her then.