Thunderstomp Question

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Re: Thunderstomp Question

Postby Kertilien » 13 May 2011, 22:15

RaW, I don't believe there is any reason to think that spell effects that increase your characteristics wouldn't apply to Stomp/Thunderstomp.

Special Rules aren't "rules that are special," they're a specific category of rules in the BRB (pages 66-79) and various army books (clearly listed as Special Rules in each unit entry). While the first paragraph under What Special Rules Does It Have? (page 66) says that, "a model might get special rules as the result of a spell that has been cast upon it...," it does not in any way state that spell effects are special rules. Rather, it refers to the numerous spells that give units special rules, such as Flaming Sword of Rhuin (Flaming Attacks), Enchanted Blades of Aiban (Armour Piercing), Birona's Timewarp (Always Strike First), and Earth Blood (Regeneration).

A monster with Killing Blow doesn't get a KB Thunderstomp. A dragon's fiery breath isn't a flaming attack unless it specifically says so - see the errata that changed the Great Fire Dragon's "Breath Weapon (Strength 5)" to "Breath Weapon (Strength 5, Flaming Attacks)." Our Tree Kin and Treemen only have magical Stomps because the magical attacks from Forest Spirit include "any special or ranged attacks they may have." Spells are spells, not special rules, and a modified characteristic is used instead of the base characteristic unless a rule specifically says otherwise (like the errata for Okkam's Mindrazor).
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Re: Thunderstomp Question

Postby herenvardo » 15 May 2011, 00:57

Unicorn: as much as I respect and admire your knowledge of the rules, I must say that this time your logic is flawed (this doesn't imply that you are wrong, but just that your arguments are not enough to prove your claim).

Specifically:
a model might get special rules as the result of a spell that has been cast upon it

(BRB p66; emphasis added)
Indeed, there are spells that grant special rules as part of their effect (ex: Earth Blood grants Regeneration). However, this is not enough to infer that everything granted by a spell is a special rule.

unicorn wrote:A special rule can boost a model's chances of causing damage, such as by granting poisoned weapons, or enhance its Strength.

(Posted by Unicorn, but also on BRB p66; emphasis added/moved)
Again, the quote claims that special rules can give a strength bonus. And again, it is not enough to infer that only special rules can give a strength bonus.


This doesn't solve the question about thunderstomp itself; it merely highlights that Unicorn's answer doesn't solve it either.

In fact, I have been going through the whole book and faq twice and found nothing that would exclude spell buffs from affecting thunderstomps. Of course, I may have missed something. And absence of proof isn't proof of absence, so the question remains unsolved :( .

The faq should have stated explicitly whether spells (and maybe other buffs) are taken in account or not for thunderstomps. Actually, the rulebook itself (or an errata to it), rather than a faq, should have stated that, since the answer it provides is not really backed up by the rules. But if GW has never written a deterministic rules system, so why would they start now?
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Re: Thunderstomp Question

Postby unicorn » 15 May 2011, 09:02

Yeah, I know that this Stomp issue is quite unclear, in terms of RAW. Tough I believe that spells will not work on it (for reasons I stated) and that this is RAI of what GW aims for.

And I know that this is one of the issues we can talk about to no end - especially if we will add the FAQ vs WE AB issue about TKs/Treeman and magical stomps. And that is is only one of several such issues where nor RAW nor common sense will help and where RAI is not 100 % clear.
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