Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

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Ender Shadowkin
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Ender Shadowkin »

Daeron wrote:A very interesting post by Druidic on warseer - http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost4309544

"...I apologise if I missed it earlier in the thread but a trusted source of mine told me at the weekend they are working on the box set and it does not contain Orcs, Goblins and Empire, but does contain "Point ears and Furry ears"

High/Wood Elves and Skaven? Odd mix, but anyone with comments?..."

On the pointy ears part, my money actually is on High Elves. Reason - lots of core and special units to be redone, and a very interesting bit of fluff in the last Skaven armybook (p.29), considering the "conflict against the elf-things" and the battle at the gates of Calith (situated in the Far East), which I think hasn't been mentioned so far.

Could this mean that we should expect a "Battle at the gates of Calith" Starter set? You heard it here first...
Somewhere later on that guy also said there was a plastic monster mount for the pointy ears. I find it hard to believe it would be another dragon set, and a griffen would need a lord choice, and this is atypical. So I would guess the heavily hints at a plastic eagle set, which I'm would be welcome to everyone here!
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Tethlis »

Well, let's keep in mind that High Elves aren't the only pointy ears.

Rumors have also indiciated that metal Dark Riders minis will be taken off Games Workshop websites, possibly heralding a second round of Dark Elf miniature releases this summer. Dark Elves are also in need of a Black Dragon model. They seem an odd choice for a starter set, but I think it's possible given the model release schedule that's been discussed.

Also, have we immediately ruled out Wood Elves and Beastmen as a possible pairing? They're a famous rivalry, and the new beast book is about to be released...
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Ender Shadowkin »

Well its just a bit too much to hope for I suppose (WE vs Beasts in the next box). It does seams like WE will need a new book pretty soon after the 8th though. One of the main rumor posters over at Warseer "Avian" was of the opinion that HE have the most to gain with the new rules and WE will be the worse off. He seams to know a lot about some of the changes.

Some of the rumors look pretty bad for us, generally boosting core infantry, toneing down fear (watering down our FS's), ranked infantry fight in 2 ranks (under some yet untold condition), possible increase to max static res bonus, only ranked infantry with a banner can claim objectives etc.

I would expect them to change the WE book to a "March to War theme" instead of "lurking in the woods", just like they did to the beastmen. It would be really sad to see, but I fear our Dryads will loose skirmash. But we may get a boost to eternal guard and some cool new units, I hope they bring back wood elf kindreds (3rd edition ranked core unit).
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by unicorn »

Tethlis wrote:Also, have we immediately ruled out Wood Elves and Beastmen as a possible pairing? They're a famous rivalry, and the new beast book is about to be released...
AFAIK not anymore. From what I heard, new Beastman fluff makes them ultimate anti-human enemies, not anti-Asrai.
It would be really sad to see, but I fear our Dryads will loose skirmash.
I heard rumors about ranled Dryads about a year ago. Still hoping it will NOT be true, but with suggested changes... Who knows
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Mithrail »

Ender Shadowkin wrote:I would expect them to change the WE book to a "March to War theme" instead of "lurking in the woods", just like they did to the beastmen. It would be really sad to see, but I fear our Dryads will loose skirmash. But we may get a boost to eternal guard and some cool new units, I hope they bring back wood elf kindreds (3rd edition ranked core unit).
If they change the WE playstyle (more like the usual armies with ranked infantry instead of skirmish) I think I will stop playing WFB as WE's playstyle fits me alot more than the other armies so I hope thats not the case
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Ender Shadowkin »

Mithrail wrote:
Ender Shadowkin wrote:I would expect them to change the WE book to a "March to War theme" instead of "lurking in the woods", just like they did to the beastmen. It would be really sad to see, but I fear our Dryads will loose skirmash. But we may get a boost to eternal guard and some cool new units, I hope they bring back wood elf kindreds (3rd edition ranked core unit).
If they change the WE playstyle (more like the usual armies with ranked infantry instead of skirmish) I think I will stop playing WFB as WE's playstyle fits me alot more than the other armies so I hope thats not the case
Well I think you may find the current army book may not suit the 8th edition rules! I don't think Woodelves will ever just turn into green high elves or anything, but the next book may reflect more of a Sylvan Host Marching forth to cause some Havoc. GW has expressed that they are disapointed in the low model count armies winning tournaments and want the game to be more of an epic fantasy battle. So they will be encouraging larger blocks of troops with the 8th, and the WE will need some of those to compete. But I don't thing they will loose everything, or that you still won't be able to build a superfast guerlla type force, it just may not be as competitive as it is now, Which is probably fine as a lot of other armies have a really hard time dealing with it now :sexy:

My hope is that they just give us blocks of regular elves in core (ala 3rd edition Kindreds), and keep the dryads as is (maybe a little price hike and tweak to the FS save). We shall see.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Vahn »

Of course the coolest thing would be if WE ended up like our evil cousins the Druchii who are extremely versatile and can field fast flanking forces but also large blocks of warriors and a couple of things in between.

Sure the guerrilla style is really nice, but if ranks and banner are to become mandatory (eternal guard! :D) we might see a bit more of these guys (eternal guard!!) and might even get some plastic ones :D that'll be great
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by thelordcal »

Eternal Guard are still my favorite choice in our army book, sorry i really just like the models and the lore, although wardancers are a close second, so a little more motivation for the eternal guard i dont think will be a bad thing.

The only thing that really worries me is the new edition rules and our scouts and waywatchers... If they want a higher model count, then drop the price of waywatchers? Will that then cause them to become worse in the game? Honestly i would like us to remain an elite force, so its still hard for me to picture us in a more "epic army" style.

just some thoughts
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Green_Mike »

I have a few questions about the rumored 8th edition. So far, the rumors i've heard are saying that ranked infantry will play a larger part in the game. Double movement while charging will be changed to M + d6 inches.
How will this affect the WE, I'm thinking of starting a we army and just to see the charm of the army be lost to the 8th ed. this summer would be really sad news.
I currently play OnG and thinking that if i wanna go for a new army, should i not consider WE, but go for example Lizardmen? That would be boring seeing how i really like the woodies :D

Btw, I think it's my first post, so.... Hello all! :)
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Herald »

Hi, Mike!
Green_Mike wrote:I have a few questions about the rumored 8th edition. So far, the rumors i've heard are saying that ranked infantry will play a larger part in the game. Double movement while charging will be changed to M + d6 inches.
A strengthening of ranked infantry sounds likely, because it is very much in the spirit of the game (just ask Rammie! :D ), and EG is not the only infantry unit that lacks competitivness. A randomized charge move, on the other hand, will ruin so much of the tactical part of the game, I just can't see that happening.
Green_Mike wrote:How will this affect the WE, I'm thinking of starting a we army and just to see the charm of the army be lost to the 8th ed. this summer would be really sad news.
I currently play OnG and thinking that if i wanna go for a new army, should i not consider WE, but go for example Lizardmen? That would be boring seeing how i really like the woodies :D

First let me say that I'm a bit nervous about both big changes as well, but I'm certain they won't nerf our army completely. As any healthy population, WE will just have to adapt to a changing environment. And, picking an army you enjoy is way more important (to me at least!), than how competitive the army is. He who brings the coolest army to the table has won before you roll a single die... ;)
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

I play WE, in a large part, not because they are/were 'good' but because I like the way they play and I like the background. I like the background of some other armies too, but I do not play them because of the way their army works.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Green_Mike »

Herald: Thanks and I agree with you! Picking an army I like is way more important than actually winning. Im abit conserned tho, playing OnG has been abit of a hassle against DE, when basically nothing i do work.
OnG is one of the reasons im interested in WE, since tactically they seem to be the straight opposite! =)
However im not worried about that, since WE should get a new AB fairly soon right? Hopefully after 8th ed. is released this time.

I cant wait to field waywatchers and wardancers, who are really interesting units in my eyes.

Thanks for your answers guys!
I just hope my swedish grammar is making my posts hard to read, or understand!
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Vahn »

Don't worry Green_Mike there are plenty of swedes around to translate and a couple of norwegians and danes too :P

I play both OnG and WE for the reason you stated, they are very different to play with! and I think that even with the 8th edition changes that will be the case.
For example you can always afford to sacrifice a couple of goblin units, you expect your giant to be killed and hopefully fall over enemy models, your boyz will sometimes think they know better than you and won't listen....those things will never happen with WE, every casualty you suffer is a great loss (even the "expendable" units) and your units are way more reliable, lot's of ItP and high leadership models...I hope you get the picture.

And I'm with AMA and the others, I think play style is a very important part of why you like an army and GW should (not saying they will) respect that. I'm keeping my fingers crossed so we WE become a more versatile army instead of becoming more limited (or more monster dependant).
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by unicorn »

New rumor about thew magic phase. Reminds me what I heard elsewhere, so may be it it right:
the new magic phase is going to look like this.

a)No more standard pool dice or generating power dice from wizards only from magic items.

b) in the magic phase, the player whos turn it is rolls 2 dice, the highest being power dice the lowest being dispell dice.

c) when attempting to cast a spell you as your magic level to the casting value so a level 4 wizard will add plus 4, in your dispell turn you add the plus 1 for levels 1 - 2 and plus 2 for 3+, but if you have a remains in play spell you can not use that wizard to dispell which i think explains the wording on the savage dominion spell.

d) a limit of 1 dispell scroll per wizard
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Tethlis »

I want to make sure I properly understand this, because the original poster seems to be struggling a bit with his English:

A) There are no longer pool dice, and wizards no longer generate any power dice. All "extra" power dice come from magic items only.

B) The amount of power and dispel dice available in a phase is dictated by 2D6. The higher number will always be Power Dice, the lower number will always be Dispel Dice.

C) When you attempt to cast a spell, you add the Magic Level of the wizard casting it to the total. So if you have a Level 4 wizard casting a spell, you add +4 to your total dice roll. When rolling to dispel, Level 1 and Level 2 wizards add +1 to their dispel roll, and Level 3 and Level 4 wizards add +2. If a wizard is maintaining a Remains in Play Spell, he is not free to add his Magic Level to the dispel roll.

D) Each wizard can only take one dispel scroll.

Does that look right?
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Nevermore »

It looks too ridiculous to be true, that's what it looks like. Starting with the fact no one would take higher level mages for being too expensive. :roll:
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Joelatron »

except vampire count lvl4 can kit up to get +6 to dice roll (lvl4 and item of +2 to cast). Lrd of Change, Slanns, DE with extra dice spell/dagger and banner of sorcery will = very powerful magic phase.

THerefore I think this is just what it says it is....a rumour. A bit too broken and doesn't balance the field-it encourages massive amounts of magic from armies that already have over powering magic....unless that is what GW want.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by unicorn »

Tethlis wrote:I want to make sure I properly understand this, because the original poster seems to be struggling a bit with his English:
...
C) When you attempt to cast a spell, you add the Magic Level of the wizard casting it to the total. So if you have a Level 4 wizard casting a spell, you add +4 to your total dice roll. When rolling to dispel, Level 1 and Level 2 wizards add +1 to their dispel roll, and Level 3 and Level 4 wizards add +2. If a wizard is maintaining a Remains in Play Spell, he is not free to add his Magic Level to the dispel roll.
As far as I understand it, you add +1 for EACH lvl1-2 wizard and +2 for each lvl3-4 wizard to your dispel roll.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Tethlis »

I don't think this new system is inherently imbalanced. There will be plenty of magic phases where Vamp Counts or Daemons will be shut down to 7 dice or less. Yes, they'll be able to cast spells easily and with tremendous reliability, but that's still a lot less spell-spamming than we see in today's environment.

The question I'm most curious about is what they're going to do with armybook-specific lores. The Beastmen lore has outrageously high casting values, because it's been built expecting that a Level 4 Brayshaman can get +5 to his casting rolls with the right magic item selection. However, other races with destructive magic still have reasonably low casting values. Dark Elves, Vamp Counts, Daemons, Skavens are all going to love the fact that their lores haven't been altered for a new edition. I wonder what GW will do to counter this? Release new errata raising casting values? Add some kind of penalty to casters who use armybooks from their own lore?
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by The Virgin Forest »

Not to mention that the system doesn't seem to scale very well, when you go for larger battles. More wizards will just give you greater magic defense, but won't add to your offense.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by The Golden Arrow »

That would mean that items that add power dice will be very over powered. I mean look at banner of sorcery or even worse sacrificial dagger. All in all I think magic would be toned down, but certain items or special rules will just become obsene and I think that the magic phase will become even more unbalanced towards certain races.

And I agree with TVF that it would indeed not scale well at all.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Tethlis »

Some magic-heavy armies, such as minimum-size Horror spamming Daemons, will lose a lot of their damage potential with these new changes. As has been mentioned though, armies that can easily buy extra Power dice or have plenty of bound spells will probably benefit from these changes.

One thing that's interesting is that you won't need to fill your character slots with multiple casters in order to have a heavy magic phase. Plenty of armies will be very fearsome with just a single Level 4, which will leave a lot of points left over to focus on more troops and combat characters.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by ether dude »

There is no way that this is going to work. Period. Allow me to illustrate:

Vampire Count: level 3, master of the black arts, forbidden lore, summon X, skull staff, helm of commandment
This caster will be running about with D6+2 power dice (+3 assuming a periapt toting necromancer), with +4 to cast and all of the spells in the lore of vampires. You do know what that means right? D6+3 castings of vanhels danse macabre all going off on a 3+. Combine this with a certainty of a) fewer dispel scrolls b) more power dice than dispel dice and c) a higher bonus to cast and you get a shambling horde that moves as fast as the mongols sweeping out of the Asiatic steppes. I can't express how incalculably ludicrous the game would become. If you thought that spam casting invocation was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. Oh, and don't forget the several bound spells that are tagging along as well.

That's ignoring potential insanity along the lines of sacrificial dagger and power of darkness.

On the plus side, it seems like there is less incentive to pile hundreds of points into several casters and magic defense will not be dependent on the number of hero slots you're willing to sacrifice for the greater good.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Tethlis »

ether dude wrote:On the plus side, it seems like there is less incentive to pile hundreds of points into several casters and magic defense will not be dependent on the number of hero slots you're willing to sacrifice for the greater good.
Indeed, which I really like.

I wonder if we'll see Games Workshop raise the minimum total the dice can have and still be a successful cast. As things are right now, an unmodified dice total of a 1 or a 2 automatically counts as a failure. Perhaps we'll see this raised to 3 or even 4, in order to curtail the effects that one-dice spamming will have on low casting value magic phases.
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Re: Close future of WFB in official "rumors"

Post by Hopeless Hero »

I wouldn't stop playing. If the people in my group all don't like the new rules... We'll just play the old ones. No questions asked. I don't play 40k, but most of the guys I play with have at least one 40k army... And I plan on getting one eventually as well (Likely Tau, just because Battle Suit models look so undeniably wicked... I want to paint one SOOO bad). I doubt we're going to see a change in general tactics, such as flanking or ranks. The close combat phase in 40k is rather minor to my understanding. Its mandatory in Fantasy. You can't get a lot accomplished with only shooting or magic... You can win, but not by much, and not while having much fun.

I don't think changing the magic rules will help. I agree that the changes have to be made in the armies, rather than in the general rules, to keep people from going magic heavy... And miscasts on a one would screw us up as bad as everyone else... Tree singing spam would become a very dangerous game very quickly...

What would interest me more is what you guys think they'll do when they re-do our army book? I've been talking it over with some of my buddies and we have a few idea's... But what do the cream of the crop of the Asrai world have to say about it? It's generally agreed that we need an across the board unit cost reduction... But other than that? What kind of new units? What kind of changes to the current ones? We may be looking at waiting another year or so to find out... But it doesn't mean we can't have a little fun speculating :P
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