New player 2,000 points list

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Nemhain
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New player 2,000 points list

Post by Nemhain »

Hi all,

A few friends and I have started to play Warhammer and I pretty much fell in love with the Wood Elves from the get-go. Our group is made up of experienced gamers, and I guess the best description of our approach to gaming in general is "tough but fair" - we want to test ourselves, but we are also cognisant of the thin division between "competitive" and "abusive". If anything in the list is verging towards that line (or has crossed over the cheese horizon and continues to accelerate, I would very much appreciate being told so. We will eventually reach our own competitive equilbrium point, but having some outside reference never hurts ;)

We are all looking to get 2,000 points armies together, so I was hoping that the more experienced and astute would take a look at what I am currently going with and point out any potential flaws or shortcomings in the list. I've included my reasoning behind each choice so there isn't a total context vacuum. More importantly, if I end up looking like an idiot, at least it might be an idiot with a modicum of rationality ;) There is a quick list at the start to give an overview of the army, before going into each choice in more depth.

QUICK LIST:

Spellweaver, + level 4, + 3 Dispel Scroll, + Ranu's Heartstone
Alter Noble, + Hail of Doom, + Briarsheath, + Great Weapon, +Shield
Battle Standard Bearer, + Annoyance of Netlings

10 Glade Guard

5 Glade Riders, + Musician

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

8 Dryads

7 Wardancers, + Musician

6 Wardancers, + Musician

5 Wild Riders, + Musician, + Standard Bearer

3 Warhawks

1 Treeman

1 Great Eagle


REASONS

CHARACTERS

Lord:
Spellweaver
+ Level 4 upgrade
+ 3 Dispel Scrolls
+ Ranu's Heartstone

345 points

After sitting down and crunching the numbers, the single level four came out ahead of the two level 2 casters. Even at that, aggressive use of Wood Elf magic appears decidedly constrained in comparison to other races, so the magic item choices are there to bolster a "not in the face" approach to the Magic Phase. I am pretty sure that I will be going with the Lore of Beasts, as it seems to contain spells that are useful in the key areas that Wood Elves focus on: hard-hitting, low unit strength units/models, some shootiness, rallying fleeing troops (always nice in an army that will be taking every opportunity to run in order to set up charges of its own), and controlling the movement of key friendly and enemy units. Not that I am counting on getting anything off, but redundancy wins, so at least the possibility will be there. Ranu's Heartstone is there to prevent horrible early miscasts, or to give me a shot at key casts/dispels.

* Slight tangent: I have seen the term "mage hunting" a lot, and I was wondering if there is a good tactica anywhere on the subject. It seems to be a case of getting your mobile units into combat with casters, but I am unclear on how best to effect this. Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.


Hero:
Noble
+ Alter Kindred
+ Hail of Doom Arrow
+ Briarsheath
+ Great Weapon
+ Shield

151 points

This is just a variant of the standard Alter. Briarsheath is there to push most enemy shooting to 6's to hit. This is one of the choices that I am most conflicted about. On the one hand, I can see that this guy could get shot up pretty badly and achieve nothing beyond shooting the Hail of Doom Arrow (and maybe not even that). On the other hand, with some friendly terrain, or a bit of patience moving him on the flank, he should be capable of a lot of damage. What are people's experiences with him in the new edition?


Hero:
Noble
+ Battle Standard Bearer
+ Annoyance of Netlings

115 points

The Annoyance is in place to keep him alive, and I intend to place him in the unit of 6 Wardancers. However, it also occurs to me that the Battle Standard Bearer can be used in an (admittedly risk-laden) offensive fashion as well, challenging enemy close combat characters to get them out of combat while the Wardancers try to break the unit with casualties. There is a good chance that the Bearer will survive the challenge, so it could be of use in the right circumstances.


Total spent on Characters: 611 points


CORE

10 Glade Guard

120 points

I have only gone with one unit of Glade Guard as I like getting to grips with things rather than shooting from a distance. I definitely want the one unit, as it brings something to the board, but I am not sure that more than one unit is tactically all that beneficial. With no solid role ascribed to this unit, I have passed on a Musician or Standard Bearer. I look on this unit as potentially sacrificial, and think that this is how I will get the best reward from the points invested in it.


5 Glade Riders
+ Musician

129 points

I originally had a second unit of Glade Guard, but turned them into Glade Riders for a few reasons: the Riders are a proper baiting unit, of which I want to have at least the one in the army, they can march block effectively, and they can remove rank bonuses on flank attacks (and, unlike the archers, can be in combat quickly enough to make a difference). The Riders can still add a little to the shooting phase as well, though I cannot really make that a reason for taking them ;) Tactically, I think that they bring more to the table, and that is why they win over another unit of Guard for me.


8 Dryads

8 Dryads

8 Dryads


3 x 96 points

Dryads appear to be the workhorses of the army, fulfilling a variety of roles. As I envision the way this army works, they will be doing a lot of screening just off centre of my opponent's army, as I march block the other side of his line, and the Wardancers and Wild Riders chop up the near flank. After that hopefully happens, they Dryads will fold in on the collapsing flank. Pretty mental pictures aside, I think the Dryads are immensely flexible troops. I really find it hard to take fewer than 3 units of 8 (but equally hard to take any more).

Total spent on Core: 537 points


SPECIAL

7 Wardancers
+ Musician

133 points

Wardancers = :wub:

I want two units, and that is also part of the reason that I have gone with 3 Dryad units (screen them, my pretties). Great imagery, shockingly good in close combat, and pretty much the essence of what drew me to Wood Elves: mobile, fragile, specialised, and lethal.


6 Wardancers
+ Musician

115 points

The reason that this unit is 6 models is basically because I was unhappy cutting points anywhere else. Pragmatism for the win. The Battle Standard Bearer will go in this unit, replacing the lost combat punch, and making it more likely to break enemy units while bolstering morale in what should be just about the middle of my main battle force.


5 Wild Riders
+ Musician
+ Standard Bearer

148 points

Fast and hard-hitting. I expect this unit to be the spearhead of the attacking force. They hit hard, and cause fear on the charge, which might give me an auto-break in combination with Dryads. Not much else to be said, really!


3 Warhawks

120 points

March blockers, flee blockers, war machine killers, and mage hunters (I really need to find out more about this). I think it is hard to pass a unit of these guys up, as they bring so many options with them. They are definitely fragile, and I expect that they will need careful minding, but I think that they really help to cover some of the glaring early-game weaknesses of the Wood Elf army. Again, I would love to hear about people's experiences with these guys.

Total spent on Specials: 516 points


RARE

1 Treeman

285 points

It's a Treeman.


1 Great Eagle

50 points

The only truly expendable unit on the list, the Eagle will be on march blocking and war machine duty in most games. I expect it to die a lot, but to more than repay its points investment in tactical advantage.

Total spent on Rares: 335 points

Army total: 1,999 points


And that's it. Very long, for which I apologise, but I really want to get to grips with core and deep Wood Elf strategies as quickly as I can. Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks all!
Last edited by Nemhain on 06 Nov 2006, 22:07, edited 2 times in total.
asrai77
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Post by asrai77 »

This is a good solid list. I am anxious to see how it all goes. Try it out and give reports. One thing of interest that I see (not necessarily bad either) is the use of BSB without two treeman of a group of eternal guard. Usually, that is who I see this guy fielded with. I find it interesting that you put him in the middle of your wardancers. It is a risky choice but fairly original. I would be eager to see how that turns out for you.
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Post by Prince of Arnheim »

Not much to say other than it's a GREAT LIST!!

I dare say it is better than most for sure!!

I am a little worried about how expensive that Spellweaver is though....no Talisman? IMagine her trying to function in real life!! She would sink in the mud because of those dispel scrolls!! Better get her Glamourweave or some sort of Talisman....she is too naked....
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Post by Beithir Seun »

yeah i have to agree with Prince of Arnheim.. the spellweaver is an awful lot of points to throw away without some sort of ward save to fall back on so i would advise the same precautions Glamourweave, stone of the crystal mere or something similar (better safe than sorry!)

other than that its a great list!! i'm pretty interested to see how the BSB does with the wardancers... i'd been considering a similar move myself but haven't got round to testing it out!

let me know how your games turn out!!
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Nemhain
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Post by Nemhain »

asrai77 wrote:This is a good solid list. I am anxious to see how it all goes. Try it out and give reports.
Will do. I'm in the middle of ordering the last minis, so it should hopefully be up and running (in glorious shades of undercoat) very shortly.
One thing of interest that I see (not necessarily bad either) is the use of BSB without two treeman of a group of eternal guard. Usually, that is who I see this guy fielded with.
I'm a long time Blood Bowl player, so I have a completely pathalogical fascination with re-rolls :lol: That aside, I gave serious consideration to both Eternal Guard and a second Treeman.

I eventually opted out on the Eternal Guard because they seemed to me to be a relatively slow, shooting-vulnerable stick unit. Given that they don't contribute any ranged firepower either, they seemed something of a liability over what a Treeman could offer, while a Treeman also contributes Terror, Strangleroots, bound Treesinging, etc.

Taking two Treemen was very tempting, but it's a huge investment of points into two large targets that, against the wrong army, seem like they will spend most of their time hiding (something I didn't mention before is that we are all looking to build all-comers lists, which we won't be changing between games on any given day or weekend, so tactical balance is more important). It also has this sledgehammer vibe that I can't shake, and doesn't feel quite right to me. (I'm guessing that that is the glow of noobishness, which will be quickly beaten out of me.) Plus, with two Trees, I have to sacrifice significant other parts of my army. I'd love to hear what people think of the two Treeman combo, as I can definitely see its potential power. Does one Treeman equal 1 Eagle + 8 Dryads + a unit of Wardancers? Do I have to become a treesurfing army to make best use of 2 Treemen?

Finally, I think that, because I only have one Treeman, it is actually more important for me that he not break, as I have next to no redundancy in the army for the role he fulfils. It's one of the bits of the army that makes me a little twitchy. For now, I am beguiled by the killing power of the Wardancers, but a unit of them and a unit of Dryads could become some Treekin as a stop-gap measure if it doesn't work out.
I find it interesting that you put him in the middle of your wardancers. It is a risky choice but fairly original. I would be eager to see how that turns out for you.


I'll let you know. My thinking is that, screened by Dryads and in skirmishers who will be hitting the enemy as fast as possible, he should be fairly safe. He'll be bringing +Combat Resolution to the heart of the fight, and he has enough hitting power to not be entirly out of place in the Wardancers. But we'll see. I will definitely report back once I've got a few games under my belt.

Thanks for the comments!
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Post by Nemhain »

Prince of Arnheim wrote:Not much to say other than it's a GREAT LIST!!

I dare say it is better than most for sure!!

I am a little worried about how expensive that Spellweaver is though....no Talisman? IMagine her trying to function in real life!! She would sink in the mud because of those dispel scrolls!! Better get her Glamourweave or some sort of Talisman....she is too naked....
You could well have a point there. I'll look at the list again and see where I can jimmy some extra points up. I'll have to ditch a dispel scroll to get Glamourweave anyway, but that still leaves me 4 points over. I could drop the level 4 upgrade, which would give me 31 points to add in. Decisions, decisons. I'll get back to you on this ;)

Thanks for the comments!
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Post by Prince of Arnheim »

You could always drop the extra unit of Wardancers....might be risky though...but it would allow you to buy some much needed upgrades for units...like a Wild hunter and Standard for your Wild Riders...maybe 3 more Dryads spread over the 3 units....perhaps a Bladesinger and Musician for your Wardancer unit...believe me...these things are worth it!!
Nemhain
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Post by Nemhain »

Prince of Arnheim wrote:You could always drop the extra unit of Wardancers....might be risky though...but it would allow you to buy some much needed upgrades for units...like a Wild hunter and Standard for your Wild Riders...maybe 3 more Dryads spread over the 3 units....perhaps a Bladesinger and Musician for your Wardancer unit...believe me...these things are worth it!!
The Wild Riders already have a standard, and both Wardancers units already have Musicians. I'd actually go with a War Banner for the Wild Riders over a Champion, as a guaranteed +1 CR for 7 points more than a ~50% of another wound seems a better investment. I'll be looking at the list again later, and seeing what I can do.

Thanks again.
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Post by Hyarion »

For future reference, unit upgrades definitely should go in the "Quick Version" of your list, that stuff is too important to leave out.
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Prince of Arnheim
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Post by Prince of Arnheim »

Yeah don't bother with that two list setup...it is just confusing and to0 big to scroll through quickly....
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Post by Nemhain »

Edited original message to include upgrades in quick list. I'll keep things shorter in future.
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Post by Nemhain »

Taking the comments so far into account, here's what I'm at now:


Spellweaver (level 3)
+ 2 Dispel Scroll
265 points

Noble
+ Alter, + Hail of Doom, + Helm of the Hunt, + Great Weapon, + Light Armour, + Shield
158 points

Branchwraith
+ level 1, + Cluster of Radiants, + Pageant of Shrikes
165 points


10 Glade Guard
+ Musician
126 points

5 Glade Riders
+ Musician
129 points

8 Dryads
96 points

8 Dryads
96 points

8 Dryads
96 points


7 Wardancers
+ Musician
133 points

7 Wardancers
+ Musician
133 points

5 Wild Riders
+ Musician, + Standard Bearer
148 points

3 Warhawk Riders
120 points


1 Treeman
285 points

1 Great Eagle
50 points


6 Power Dice
6 Dispel Dice
2 Dispel Scrolls


As I'm looking mainly at magic defence, I've taken a lot of the points out of the Spellweaver to minimise my losses should she get killed. I've reinvested some of those points into a Branchwraith, spreading my magic defence out a bit.

The Alter is now going with Hail of Doom and Helm of the Hunt, but should I want to go more hand to hand with him, I can swap the Hail for Stone of the Crystal Mere.

The Branchwraith replaces the Battle Standard Bearer, giving me more dispel dice. The Pageant of Shrikes is for additional mage/war machine hunting, and the Wraith itself gives my Dryads a bit more punch. With Tree Singing from the Wraith and the Treeman, it might actually become more of a factor than a curiosity in the army, which I like.

The Glade Guard get a Musician, so they can flee more effectively.

The unit of 6 Wardancers gets boosted to 7.

And that's 2,000 exactly. I'll let you know how it goes, unless there are any further suggestions.

Thanks again.
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