2000 point combined arms list (new to WE)

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JMGraham
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2000 point combined arms list (new to WE)

Post by JMGraham »

I’m a long-time Warhammer player (Nurgle mortals, daemons, and beasts), but new to the Wood Elves. While I dearly love Papa Nurgle, I’m very much looking forward to playing with a new army that will challenge me to think differently about the game. I’ve decided on Wood Elves, and have been pleasantly surprised by the wealth of information available from the on-line community. I’ve put together an initial list, and I’d love to get feedback on the strengths and weaknesses of the list, as well as any advice on how to use it. The list is intended to be a combined arms list that lets me try out a wide variety of different troop types. As I’m new to WE, it’s important for me to be able to play with as many different troop types as possible while I learn the ropes of the armies. I can specialize later, once I know what the army capabilities are.

A 2000 point list follows – advice is appreciated:

Characters

Spellsinger
Magic Level 1, Heartstone, Dispell Scroll, 135 points

Spellsinger
Magic Level 1, Dispell Scroll x 2, 140 points

Alter Noble
Great Weapon, HoDA, Helm of the Hunt, 154 points
(I'll replace HoH with Briarsheath when I know I’m fighting an army with any amount of shooting – the extra 5 points would also let me replace the heartstone on the first mage with an additional dispel scroll.)

Noble
BSB, Annoyance of Netlings, 117 points
(deployed with wardancers, close to treeman)

Core

10 Glade Guard
120 points

10 Glade Guard
120 points

(The Glade guard will be played aggressively, moving forward 5” each turn until my combat units are engaged, or until they have to start back-pedaling for fear of being charged)

8 Dryads
96 points

8 Dryads
96 points
(Dryads used for skirmish support, charges front in combination with fast cav in the flank/rear)

5 Glade Riders
120 points

5 Glade Riders
120 points

(Initially the Glade Riders will be used to take out supporting units (FC, skirmishers, missle), will be used for flanking/rear charges when the combat units get where they need to be)

Special

7 Wardancers
126 points

(BSB starts here, along with the Treeman they will form the “hammer”)

3 Warhawk Riders
120 points
(mage and war-machine hunting, incidental march blocking, and (if they survive) setting up crossfire zones)

5 Wild Riders
130 points
(Get into position for flanking, wipe up support units if they get in the way)

Rare

5 Way Watchers
120 points
(march blocking, mage/war machine hunting)

Treeman
285 points
(Kept near BSB, try an position it in relation to the wardancers so that the treeman will be charged, not the WD (they’ll hopefully be saved for a counter-charge))


I feel strange making a list without a unit or two of large solid infantry blocks, but am curious about how the army plays. I generally disliked playing the pre-AB Wood Elves (played as victory point denial), though my record against them was split fairly evenly. The new WE looks to be a very different creature indeed.

Thanks,
Jim
Last edited by JMGraham on 02 Nov 2006, 22:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Lirithiel »

Hey Jim, welcome to the beauty that is Athel Loren and its inhabitants. ^_^

Well at first glance the list looks solid.

One suggestion I can make is to give both units of GR musicians though -> helps with baiting and rallying when fleeing.

Otherwise not much to change IMO.

Your Spellsingers will obviously be for magic defence although it won't help much in any case if you face even remotely magicky armies.

Its difficult to comment on the list points-wise as you don't have the points listed but I'm sure you'll get much more feedback to help you out.
JMGraham
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Post by JMGraham »

I've edited the original post to include the point costs.


You're right about magic - my intent is to stick exclusively to defense (2 lvl 1 scroll caddies). I'll plan to not get any spells off, and will probably limit both of them to Treesinging (and even then, not plan on any going through). Hopefully 3 to 4 scrolls and 4 dice will let me whether a magic phase or two, and hopefully I'll have removed a mage or two by the time the scrolls run out.

The one unit I'm most curious about are the Dryads. While I'm aware that they can be deadly in HtH combat, I'm at a loss as to what their optimal role might be. Without any static resolution, they're not going to be able to take on any ranked units by themselves and don't negate ranks when flanking. Suggestions on how to best use them?

Thanks,
Jim
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Post by Prince of Arnheim »

Can I suggest that you reformat your armylist so that it is easier to read? This will help you get some more feedback for sure. I will take a look at it when it is easier to read.

Remember not to put on the individual points values for units and items or anything really for that matter.
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Tethlis
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Post by Tethlis »

Welcome to the board.

I think your list looks very solid. I would advocate a Level 4 instead of two level 2 casters, however. While having additional characters gives you greater flexibility, the Level 4 actually gives you a magic presence against opponents who aren't terribly focused on magic defense. The Level 4 is compirable in terms of point cost as well. You could additionally go with a Level 3, saving yourself some points without compromising your magic defense.

Regarding Dryads:
You seem well aware of the reputation Dryads have. For Wood Elves, they fulfill a variety of roles. Against shooting-heavy armies, they can be used to screen your more fragile troops (wardancers) until they reach combat. To win combats without rank-and-file troops, combined charges are the name of the game. You have an excellent fast cavalry presence, which you will need to utilize well in order to break your opponent. Glade Guard or Wild Riders on the flank, with Dryads or Wardancers to the front are capable of breaking most enemy regiments. What Wood Elves lack in static combat resolution, they make up for with rank-and-file killing power. The Dryads and Wardancers should be used to generate those kills, while the fast cavalry deny your opponent his own static combat bonuses. A Wild Riders/Dryad combined charge can provide enough unit strength to auto-break an enemy with fear, which is a tactic you are likely familiar with as a Nurgle player.

I hope that helps.
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JMGraham
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Post by JMGraham »

Thanks for the notes. I've edited the initial post to make the list a "Thing of Beauty" (tm).

Re: the level 4 (or 3) mage. I considered a level 3, but had trouble trying to come up with the points. I could take a level 3 with 2 scrolls for 10 fewer points than the two level 1s (with 3 scrolls + heartstone). I like this because it would let me take the Lore of Beasts (Bear's Anger would be great), and give an extra point of leadership to my general. However, the thought of running 4 dispell dice with 2 scrolls scares me to death. With Chaos, I'm used to running a single level 2 with one scroll, but I have the numbers, toughness, and armour to soak up a lot of punishment. It looks like this is decidedly not the case with the Woodies. Any ideas about where the points for an extra scroll or two could come from? A level 3 with two scrolls seems too light of a defense to be worthwhile for this type of army. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jim
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Post by Beithir Seun »

the only thing i can think of to give you enough points for a third scroll is different equipment on the alter but that compromises his effectiveness....

i think your best bet would be to play a few games with 4 dice and 2 scrolls to see if you can cope with the magic facing you ...it may just be enough (i know i only ever take 2 scrolls) just do a bit of wizard hunting with your waywatchers (killing blow at short range!)
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JMGraham
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Post by JMGraham »

This is likely to be long-winded and somewhat disjointed: Played my first Wood Elf game last night, using this list. My opponent was playing a Necarch Vampire list:
  • Necarch count (level 3) on a winged nightmare
    2 x necromancers, no scrolls
    1 Necarch thrall (magic level 1)
    3 x minimum-sized blocks of skellies, (quickly raised up to a more respectable fighting size)
    2 x units of 6 Dire Wolves
    3 x units of 10 ghouls
    1 unit of 8 Black Knights with the banner-of-always-hit-on-threes
As my first battle using the Woodies, I was initially nervous putting down an army with no ranked units. I missed the static combat resolution, but was fairly impressed with how well the units performed without them.

I anchored one flank with the two units of archers. The treeman + wardancers were placed in the center, bookended by the 2 units of dryads. The wild Riders and a unit of glade riders were on the flank opposite of the archers, and the second unit of glade riders were with the archer flank.

Shooting and the Wild Riders quickly took down the dire wolves and a unit of ghouls. My opponent made it into close combat with his knights early (Turn 2), getting a charge off on the treeman. The treeman held nicely, and I countercharged in the front with the wardancers. I had a unit of dryads in position to hit the black knights in the side, but instead chose to send them after another unit of ghouls. In retrospect, I could have used the extra attacks and unit strength. The treeman eventually broke, leaving the wardancers to fight a battle of attrition, which they eventually lost. Also in retrospect, when the wardancers failed to take care of the black knights, I was a fool not to make it a top priority to support them with a flank charge.

Lesson: There is no such thing as "overkill". The more in a combat, the merrier. Wardancers are probably much more effective than I saw here - because of the positioning of the Treeman, I was only able to get 2 + the BSB into combat.

The Glade Guard were brilliant at holding down their flank. I was suprised how effective they are. With the no move-and-shoot penalties, the effective short range is 20 inches. They quickly ate through the quick support units on their flank, and weakened a unit of skellies to the point where an unsupported frontal charge from a unit of dryads finished them off. At some point I realized he had his necros on steeds in units of foot troops. Silly me for not having seen it earlier, and a novice's mistake for my opponent. The necros were quickly taken out with shooting once I realized his error.

His other units of skellies never saw combat, save for the one without the thrall, that was charged by the wild riders and warhawk riders in turn 6.

His general was very effective at spreading terror about the battlefield, and many of my units (particularly the Glade Riders and Way Watchers) spent much of the game running away. His general got too close to the archers at one point, and realized the error of his ways after being taken down to a single wound (he later IFed a healing spell and got himself back up to full wounds). The climactic end of the battle saw his general charging my treeman (who had 3 wounds left). In the magic phase, I was able to stop hellish vigor, but couldn't stop him from getting off hand of dust (the combination of the two would have been the end for me!). In the close combat phase, he had a 50% chance of killing the big tree outright (would have been 75% if he had gotten off hellish vigor, as well). He rolled a two to hit, got battered by some branches, and crumbled due to combat res. That netted somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 points (500 + general), and turned the game from a draw to a solid victory in my favor. I forgot plenty of rules (stand and shoot with strangleroot, to challenge with my BSB with AoN, etc.), made plenty of mistakes, benefited from several mistakes that my opponent made that simply shouldn't have been made (necros on steeds in units on foot) and deserved a worse outcome then I got. I fear that the reason for my win was more my opponent's inexperience with his army and his mistakes then my own.

Random thoughts:
I was initially disappointed with my poor ability to get off combined charges. I had difficulty with a unit of Glade Riders, in particular, who couldn't get past the enemy battle line. They spent the game sulking around behind my troops, trying to jockey for a way to get past the enemy without getting charged. In retrospect, I think I may have been too impatient, and should have waited longer before engaging in close-combat. Save for dusting a unit of Dire Wolves (who got in the way), the Wild Riders didn't see combat until turn 5, but by that time they were behind the enemy battle line.

Dryads are incredible. Ghouls are also incredible.

With all of those attacks and all of the shooting, Woodies roll a lot of dice, and with high BS and WS, they are very accurate.

I balked at the last minute and stuck with the two level 1 caddies. 4 DD + 3 scrolls was a very effective defense, and this in the face of a 10 PD army (with several bound items and two of the casters getting +1 on their casting rolls). I got enough treesingings off for those points not to be a complete waste.


Questions:

1) Any suggestions for tactics to get the fast cav where they need to be (past the enemy)? I worry about struggling to do this in the face of an enemy who is able to keep a coherent, solid battle line that advances together en-masse. For those of you with lots of Wood Elf experience, how do you decide when to engage in close combat? What turn does this typically begin on?

2) Are Glade Guard typically as effective as they were for me in this game?

I didn't deserve the win, but it was a very satisfying first game. This army will have me thinking more about tactics then I have in a long time.

Jim
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JMGraham
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Post by JMGraham »

Still hoping for feedback re: the questions above.

Thanks!
Jim
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