3000 vs VC
Moderator: Council of Elders
3000 vs VC
Hi, I'm new here an need some help with a list I will be playing against Vampire Counts soon.
Spellweaver, lvl 4, wand of wych elm
Noble, BSB, Asyendi's, HoDA
Noble, Eagle, Netlings, Spear, Potion of Foolhardiness, Enchanted Shield
20 Glade Guards, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 Glade Guards
10 Glade Guards
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
6 Tree Kin
10 Wild Riders, Full Command
Treeman
Treeman
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
5 Waywatchers
5 Waywatchers
Spellweaver, lvl 4, wand of wych elm
Noble, BSB, Asyendi's, HoDA
Noble, Eagle, Netlings, Spear, Potion of Foolhardiness, Enchanted Shield
20 Glade Guards, Standard Bearer, Banner of Eternal Flame
10 Glade Guards
10 Glade Guards
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
6 Tree Kin
10 Wild Riders, Full Command
Treeman
Treeman
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
5 Waywatchers
5 Waywatchers
Last edited by Vervain on 15 Apr 2014, 15:50, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 3000 vs VC
Have you ever played vampire counts before?
- robtion
- Trusted Bowman
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- Joined: 08 Feb 2014, 14:01
- Armies I play: Vampire Counts, Wood Elves
- Location: An Evil Forest by the Sea.
Re: 3000 vs VC
My other army is VC and I mostly play them so I can give some advice if you have any specific questions. At 3000pts they will very likely have a lvl 4 caster necro, and quite possibly 2 terrorgheists as that is popular. There are so many different VC lists though, any idea what your opponent is taking? Does he like ethereal units? If so forest spirits are good as you need magic attacks for them.
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- Bladesinger
- Posts: 729
- Joined: 17 Aug 2013, 03:26
- Armies I play: Beastmen, lizardmen, wood elves, orcs and goblins
Re: 3000 vs VC
So a few things to remember with VC:
-Magic. They need it. So a Lv4 for dispelling is mandatory, esp at 3000 points! Wand of wych elm is a great choice too. I'd argue that Life is better than beasts magic, but that's mainly for Dwellers Below.
-Zero shooting (unless you count scream attacks, which I don't as they can be made into combat) and not many magic missiles. So fast cavalry can run amok: Wild Riders are great, will be able to choose their fights entirely at will. But you need to use this mobility to pick fights VERY carefully or you will get stuck in a grindfest and die slowly.
-Model count: HIGH. And all of them immune to psychology (so no chance of forcing panic checks). This makes shooting not as useful as it can be. There will still be targets (terrorgheists, vargulfs, crypt horrors, mortis engines) but I'd say 30 GG is as many as you need. And 15 of those should have a standard with Banner of Eternal Flame, as most of the aforementioned shooting targets have regeneration saves.
Other comments on your list
-Waywatchers: completely useless unless they happen to bring a black knight bus. No war machines for them to kill, no fights they can win and (probably) nothing worth shooting at. Leave them at home.
-Dryads:keep them minimum size (8). They are great at the job of getting rid of ethereals, flanking, redirecting and blocking. But they aren't going to grind it out with even zombies. So 3 units of 8 is fine.
-Treekin and Treemen. SO MUCH WIN!! They are amazing against VC, as they can win the grinding combats and VC lack any of their hard counters. Keep them! Have you got a third treeman? Take a treeman ancient!!
-BSB: fine. But make sure you pick your HODA target well, as simply firing it into a unit you aren't able to kill off that round may just see all those models resurrected.
-Eagle noble: he's important to tie things up and deal with flying monsters (terrorgheists). But I'm not sure your kit out is optimal. He's paying 15 points for an enchanted shield that he can only use against missile attacks.......and as I said VC don't really have those. I'd go Annoyance of Nettlings, Helm of the Hunt, potion of foolhardiness, light armour, shield and spear (you want to be striking before the terrorghiests of this world in case they kill you with their attacks, as that way you at least do some damage). You can also challenge Vampire lords/heroes to tie them up with the Nettlings, but beware that you may die even being hit on 6s (as they are normally rerolling misses with a truckload of attacks).
Should you decide to include a treeman ancient (my recommendation) give him the Nettlings and add a ward save to the Eagle Noble.
Hope this helps!
-Magic. They need it. So a Lv4 for dispelling is mandatory, esp at 3000 points! Wand of wych elm is a great choice too. I'd argue that Life is better than beasts magic, but that's mainly for Dwellers Below.
-Zero shooting (unless you count scream attacks, which I don't as they can be made into combat) and not many magic missiles. So fast cavalry can run amok: Wild Riders are great, will be able to choose their fights entirely at will. But you need to use this mobility to pick fights VERY carefully or you will get stuck in a grindfest and die slowly.
-Model count: HIGH. And all of them immune to psychology (so no chance of forcing panic checks). This makes shooting not as useful as it can be. There will still be targets (terrorgheists, vargulfs, crypt horrors, mortis engines) but I'd say 30 GG is as many as you need. And 15 of those should have a standard with Banner of Eternal Flame, as most of the aforementioned shooting targets have regeneration saves.
Other comments on your list
-Waywatchers: completely useless unless they happen to bring a black knight bus. No war machines for them to kill, no fights they can win and (probably) nothing worth shooting at. Leave them at home.
-Dryads:keep them minimum size (8). They are great at the job of getting rid of ethereals, flanking, redirecting and blocking. But they aren't going to grind it out with even zombies. So 3 units of 8 is fine.
-Treekin and Treemen. SO MUCH WIN!! They are amazing against VC, as they can win the grinding combats and VC lack any of their hard counters. Keep them! Have you got a third treeman? Take a treeman ancient!!
-BSB: fine. But make sure you pick your HODA target well, as simply firing it into a unit you aren't able to kill off that round may just see all those models resurrected.
-Eagle noble: he's important to tie things up and deal with flying monsters (terrorgheists). But I'm not sure your kit out is optimal. He's paying 15 points for an enchanted shield that he can only use against missile attacks.......and as I said VC don't really have those. I'd go Annoyance of Nettlings, Helm of the Hunt, potion of foolhardiness, light armour, shield and spear (you want to be striking before the terrorghiests of this world in case they kill you with their attacks, as that way you at least do some damage). You can also challenge Vampire lords/heroes to tie them up with the Nettlings, but beware that you may die even being hit on 6s (as they are normally rerolling misses with a truckload of attacks).
Should you decide to include a treeman ancient (my recommendation) give him the Nettlings and add a ward save to the Eagle Noble.
Hope this helps!
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1097
- Joined: 23 May 2010, 01:33
- Armies I play: Orcs and goblins, Vampire Counts, Wood Elves.
- Location: Cromwell,Connecticut
Re: 3000 vs VC
If you see a writh unit or...those hell knights ( I forgot their name they are ethereal ) Hail the doom arrow out of them haha. its a huge point sink and you'll not only most likely wipe the unit up its easy 200-300 VP with on shot. As for Terror Geist they are big winged beasts. They move fast and have a REGEN save that is why you want the flaming banner but they have toughness 4 or 5.. no that high.. a solid round of GG shooting Flaming unit first.. could take one down again nice point gain and less killing power for them! Here is a game where a hero alter with Fire blades and potion of strength can come in handy too. thats 5 attack on a charge with strength 8 flaming attacks. he can take a beast down or kill ethereal units or even suicide into a necromancers unit to land as many hits on the necro as possible. maybe worth a shot um as usuall try to avoid his huge units of either 80 plus zombies or skeletons because they wont die fast enough without crazy combo charges from us.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
Re: 3000 vs VC
First of all, thank you guys for your advice.
I have edited the list in my original post with some of your advice included. I am still looking for something to replace the waywatchers with.
I have edited the list in my original post with some of your advice included. I am still looking for something to replace the waywatchers with.
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- Bladesinger
- Posts: 729
- Joined: 17 Aug 2013, 03:26
- Armies I play: Beastmen, lizardmen, wood elves, orcs and goblins
Re: 3000 vs VC
that looks better
You are aware that Wood Elves have to pay the price for Enchanted Shield that is printed in their army book (15pts) and not the price printed in the main rule book (5pts)? This makes it nearly always an inferior choice to taking the dragonhelm and a mundane shield, as this only costs 13pts and gives you a 2+ ward against flaming as well as the extra 2 to your armour save.
You are aware that Wood Elves have to pay the price for Enchanted Shield that is printed in their army book (15pts) and not the price printed in the main rule book (5pts)? This makes it nearly always an inferior choice to taking the dragonhelm and a mundane shield, as this only costs 13pts and gives you a 2+ ward against flaming as well as the extra 2 to your armour save.
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
Re: 3000 vs VC
Vampires live and die by magic and corpse carts. Make sure you take both those away
- robtion
- Trusted Bowman
- Posts: 170
- Joined: 08 Feb 2014, 14:01
- Armies I play: Vampire Counts, Wood Elves
- Location: An Evil Forest by the Sea.
Re: 3000 vs VC
Another good tactic is to target the general, usually a vamp lord but sometimes a master necro if you are lucky. Not easy to kill but well worth the effort as they a worth lots of points and force the entire army to take a crumble test which can result in a lot of casualties.
Taking out corpse carts is good but be aware they are T6 and have some saves (regent I think) so fire is your friend.
Taking out corpse carts is good but be aware they are T6 and have some saves (regent I think) so fire is your friend.
Re: 3000 vs VC
Corpse carts are t5 with 4+ regen
- robtion
- Trusted Bowman
- Posts: 170
- Joined: 08 Feb 2014, 14:01
- Armies I play: Vampire Counts, Wood Elves
- Location: An Evil Forest by the Sea.
Re: 3000 vs VC
Yep sorry been a while since I played, I was thinking of a black coach being T6. CC is only T4, 5+, 4++ regen.