Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

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brechttomme
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Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by brechttomme »

Greetings, fellow Asrai. It has been quite a while since I've been active with my Wood Elves (mostly due to those annoyingly difficult engineering exams I had to take...), but nevertheless, I have returned. The occasion being that starting on the first of April (it's not a joke... :p), my local GW will be holding an escalation league for Warhammer Fantasy, and I figured it was time to teach people that Wood Elves can still be competitive. The way it works is that we start with 500 points, and add 250 points each month, up to 1500 points by the end of the summer. It's a casual thing, so there's no obligatory battles or anything, it's purely for fun (and the shop owner is joining too, to assure there is always someone to play against). Having painted models is also not required, but there is a house rule stating that all painted models have Hatred against unpainted models. I thought this would be a good opportunity to get some games in and motivate me to paint the beginnings of the army I currently own.

Now, the part I need help with is the army lists. There's no rule that you have to keep previous units in your next army, but that would of course be useful for the painting process. I think starting with the 1500 point list and working down will be the easiest. Some people may remember that my playstyle is very MSU-like and Glade Guard/Eagle (Noble)-heavy. I just feel like those units work perfectly together. So, here is a first attempt at a list (1497 points):
  • LORDS:

    Spellweaver (275)
    - Lore of Beasts
    - Level 4 Wizard
    - Dispel Scroll

    HEROES:

    Wood Elf Noble (130)
    - Battle Standard Bearer
    - Asyendi's Bane
    - Hail of Doom Arrow

    Wood Elf Noble (178)
    - Great Weapon
    - Light Armour
    - Shield
    - Great Eagle
    - Amarinthine Brooch
    - Dragonhelm

    CORE:

    Glade Guard x18 (244)
    - Musician
    - Standard Bearer
    - Banner of Eternal Flame

    Glade Guard x10 (126)
    - Musician

    Glade Guard x10 (126)
    - Musician

    Glade Guard x10 (126)
    - Musician

    Dryads x8 (XX)

    Dryads x8 (XX)

    RARE:

    Great Eagle (XX)

    Great Eagle (XX)
I'm so tempted to take more archers and another Eagle Noble but there aren't any points for it! Any comments/criticism on this list?
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Mollesvinet »

It's a good list, but terribly standard in my opinion. If i was you, i would try to explore some alternative builds and experiment with your own ideas.

However, if you want to prove wood elves to be competitive then this is not a bad choice.
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by brechttomme »

What do you mean, standard? Has this become the new go-to list? As I said, I've been away for a while, so I may have missed some developments in the world-wide meta. I started with Wood Elves because I was inspired to run MSU-lists by Tom Richards (and that wouldn't work with my current army at the time, Tomb Kings ;)). I seem to remember the standard lists were Treemen and Treekin, boosted with Lore of Life-shenanigans? Was I gone for that long? :crazy:

Either way, I've never seen a single other player in my area ever use Wood Elves, so I suppose it wouldn't be too bad, and still radically different than anything armies like Warriors of Chaos could bring...
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Mollesvinet »

It might be because i was also a big fan of Tom Richards work, so that i saw this list before many times. Didn't mean to sound harsh or anything.

My point is that the entire character section are all standard builds and all you have apart from glade guard are dryads and eagles. Personaly i would try to introduce some more surprising elements, but it probably wouldn't increase competitiveness though. It's a good list, and if people are not used to wood elves then it will still surprise them.

I remember when i first joined my gaming group and i fled a charge, my opponent looked like his eyes would roll out of their sockets. Good luck in any case.
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by brechttomme »

Mollesvinet wrote: I remember when i first joined my gaming group and i fled a charge, my opponent looked like his eyes would roll out of their sockets. Good luck in any case.
Haha, as there aren't any other Wood Elf players I'm sure I'll get a similar reaction. And thanks! (I may need the luck!)

I do see what you're saying about it being not very "interesting" per se. I did want to include unit of 6 or so Wardancers to act as a character-killing-suicide-squad because they would definitely never expect that. The problem is what to remove though, the Dryads? There's only 2 units of them now and they are amazing for their points. The Glade Guard? For some insane reason I feel like 48 is already low... :roll: I mean, it's a lot of shots but there's a big difference between 38 and 48. And the Eagles/Eagle Noble I definitely don't want to get rid of. They're so cool (both fluff-wise and model-wise) and I feel they're incredible at what they do. Which is basically everything. I mean, they are so versatile I'd never leave home without them. Plus, they don't cost much at all!

Here are the final lists I came up with. They're all really similar and, well, "standard" I guess - but that can be changed! Hit me with ideas! :nod:
  • 500 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (Light Armour, HoDA, Charmed Shield)
    Glade Guard x12 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x11 (Musician)
    Dryads x8


    750 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (HoDA)
    Glade Guard x12 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Great Eagle


    1000 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (HoDA, Charmed Shield)
    Glade Guard x16 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle


    1250 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (GW, Light Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Amarinthine Brooch, Dragonhelm)
    Wood Elf Noble (BSB, Light Armour, Shield, Asyendi's Bane, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x20 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle


    1500 points:

    Spellweaver (Lore of Beasts, Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll)
    Wood Elf Noble (GW, Light Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Amarinthine Brooch, Dragonhelm)
    Wood Elf Noble (BSB, Light Armour, Asyendi's Bane, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x18 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle
Please feel free to give me any and all criticism on the lists!
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Elismera The Red »

MY LOCAL GW IS DOING THE EXACT SAME THING BUT WE GO UP TO 2K FOR MY 500 PTS IM DOING

Hero
Noble with bow of loren

Core
GG X 11

Dryads x 12

Rare
5 Waywatcher

ive played two practice games since it starts in mid april both games my noble and GG run away off the board my waywatchers loose like 2 guys and my dryads go from flank to flank killing everything left with like 3 or 4 of them by the end.

what are your thoughts on no magic till over 1k points?
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Sidewinder »

I don't use a mage until I hit 1200 points but of late my win/loss ratio hasn't been that good.
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Mollesvinet »

For escalation leagues i like to make a little story for the characters. Maybe in the first game you have a noble with HODA, then later on he will be upgraded to the BSB. Same for mages, i remember i took a level 1 with a scroll, then she died and became glamourweave, saved by the forest. Later she gained a unicorn, as she was favored. It doesn't have to unoptimal, but i think it makes escalation league more interesting as the games become linked together and not just a series of small battles on their own.

Your lists look good, but again the only units you use from the entire book are glade guard, dryads and great eagles. Of course they are some of the best ones, so i can't really blame you though. Maybe try to get some other parts of the game in there, like scouting or fast cav? However, i do agree its hard to find points for it in such small games.

Good luck to you.
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by brechttomme »

Elismera The Red wrote: what are your thoughts on no magic till over 1k points?
A quick question for you first: why the Bow of Loren? The amount of shots you get with the BoL is on average 1.5 more per game than with the HoDA, but you get the effects of the HoDA all at once. This means literally deleting half a unit or so (which, at this points level, is insane), and thus also limiting retaliation early on. It's amazing to use on enemy missile units and pretty much guarantees you win the ranged battle. I've had a single practice game against my brother's High Elves and he brought a ranged list too. At first I was kind of worried about being out-shot, but after killing his Bolt Thrower with the HoDA and through use of our free forest for cover and dryad-screening, the shoot-off was easily won.

Now, on to your question: I LOOOOVE magic. I can't deny it. My "main" army (my first and biggest, really) is Tomb Kings, who are absolutely dependent on magic in this edition but are also amazing at it (with Special Characters at least). With Wood Elves though, I feel like it's not absolutely necessary. All the currently used units (GG, Dryads, Treekin, etc.) are good at what they do without magic support. They obviously get better with it, but can perform well without magic, thus it isn't really necessary at low points limits. The most dangerous thing about it is not your own lack of magic, but rather the opponent's stronger magic phase. Having +4 to dispel and a dispel scroll is always extremely useful. Even just the scroll would be nice, but I don't think it's worth investing in a Spellsinger with the Lore of Athel Loren just for magic defence when you could just get an extra unit. Perhaps even a unit of Wardancers or so to assassinate the opposing Wizard, thus fixing the problem in the first place. I'm really starting to like this idea, because people - at least in my area - don't generally protect their Wizards very well, especially when they don't have many points to work with. The assassination unit could do more damage than just the Wizard, and partake in some serious psychological warfare :p.
Now, I said that units are fine at what they do without magic, but the bigger problem is that those units can't fill all the roles you need them to. Things like dealing with Monstrous Cavalry. Sure, massed focus firing on them can take them down (seriously, what can't it take down?!), but a simple Amber Spear could save the day in that case, and be much more efficient. The way I plan on dealing with that kind of thing is to just avoid it. All game long if I have to. Keep chaffing it up and redirecting it with things like Great Eagles. That's why I've also added in the Eagle Noble at 1000 points, his S6 can kind of help with Armour or a least hold it up.
I just find that the Spellweaver is too expensive, even at 1250 points, to take over more units/utility. Let's hope that changes in our new book. She definitely adds something we can use (with the Lore of Beasts of course, boo to Life! ;)) and also gives us more safety against enemy magic. A risk with fielding her, though, is that she is very vulnerable, so make sure you have the means to keep her out of combat.

Good luck in your league Elismera, protect the sacred forest! It'd be nice if you could report your battles as well.
Mollesvinet wrote: For escalation leagues i like to make a little story for the characters.
I was actually planning on doing the same thing! But then, not just for the characters but for the army as a whole. Maybe have the Noble be a main character and write a story around him and his warband.
Mollesvinet wrote: Your lists look good, but again the only units you use from the entire book are glade guard, dryads and great eagles. Of course they are some of the best ones, so i can't really blame you though. Maybe try to get some other parts of the game in there, like scouting or fast cav? However, i do agree its hard to find points for it in such small games.
Thanks, and I do get what you're saying. I'm willing to add in Wardancers or Waywatchers but I just don't really know where to find the points. Perhaps switching out a unit of GG for a unit of WW? That means I'll keep some of the shots but have a terrifying scouting threat that can easily take out Bolt Throwers and the like (I get the feeling I'll regularly be playing Dark/High Elves). They could also help in the event of enemy cavalry. Thoughts?


EDIT:

I may have come up with an alternative 500 point list that includes Way Watchers. This way I technically lose 5 shots, but Scouting WW joined by a Scouting Noble could be very troubling and they aren't bad in combat against things like War Machines, or in a joint flank charge with Dryads. It also assures that the HoDA will hit on 2's (even through soft cover, as I'll always be in short range). Additionally, units at this points level likely won't be big (no more than 15 strong) and shooting could bring them down to the point where a bunkered hero doesn't have a LoS! save anymore. The Lethal Shot on the WW could be useful in that case. Plus, it'll just be fun to have units running around the enemy's backfield :nod:.
  • Wood Elf Noble (Light Armour, Scout Kindred, Hail of Doom Arrow)
    Glade Guard x13 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5
Which of the two lists would fare better? (I'll try to get a practice game in with this alternative list). Would it be better to keep the Noble in the GG unit, far away from combat, and add another GG for the points gained from the Scout Kindred?
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Mollesvinet »

As to which list will do better, thats hard to say, depends on the match up oviously. However this new list is much more interesting, so i highly prefer it.

Makes me think of a loner scouting hero that later chooses to pick up the battle standard and join the main war. Aragon style :)

Good luck
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by brechttomme »

Mollesvinet wrote: Makes me think of a loner scouting hero that later chooses to pick up the battle standard and join the main war. Aragon style :)
Ooh, I like that! :thumbsup:

I'm getting really excited about fielding the Waywatchers now. I agree that it's also more interesting, and a lot of the people I'll be playing against will be relatively new - to Warhammer Fantasy at least, many of them are 40k players - and won't be expecting scouts, especially a scouting hero!

So, for the updated lists (There's really not much change other than always removing 10 GG and addng in 5 WW, and shuffling about with spare points):
  • 500 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (Light Armour, Scout Kindred, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x13 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5


    750 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (Additional HW, Scout Kindred, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x11 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5
    Great Eagle


    1000 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (Additional HW, Light Armour, Shield, Scout Kindred, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x15 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle


    1250 points:

    Wood Elf Noble (GW, Light Armour, Great Eagle, Amarinthine Brooch, Dragonhelm)
    Wood Elf Noble (BSB, Asyendi's Bane, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x17 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x12 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x12 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle


    1500 points:

    Spellweaver (Lore of Beasts, Level 4 Wizard, Dispel Scroll)
    Wood Elf Noble (GW, Light Armour, Shield, Great Eagle, Amarinthine Brooch, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness)
    Wood Elf Noble (BSB, Light Armour, Asyendi's Bane, HoDA)
    Glade Guard x18 (Musician, Standard Bearer, BoEF)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Glade Guard x10 (Musician)
    Dryads x8
    Dryads x8
    Waywatchers x5
    Great Eagle
    Great Eagle
All lists are exactly on the dot! Any new remarks/comments?
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Re: Starting an Escalation League (500-1500 points)

Post by Elismera The Red »

A quick question for you first: why the Bow of Loren?

Those were just fun practice game to get back into fantasy after the 40k escalation league. I liked to imagine my Noble shooting 3 arrows in the time it took even glade guard to fire 1 haha mostly fluff but once i get into the league its gonna be Doom arrows or hes gonna have movement 9 kin thing and that one shield that ignores the first wound on a 1 up to just have him be a annoince and hopefully best senario kill a war machine. i dont really like heroes as mutch i like to use core to win my games and so far its bin 2 wins - o losses but my first win was pure luck 2 out of 3 skaven jazaliers blew themselves up and last one fled his machine gun rat weapon team both times rolled doubles and shot in a empty direction my 12 dryads got rid of 2 of his rat ogres on the charge and his last guy killed 2 dryads before he was run down then my dryads just swept all his packs since both my glade guard and noble ran off the board from fireballs 2nd turn. haha dryads there the best. ^_^
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