1500pts game against WOC
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- Findecano
- Bladesinger
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1500pts game against WOC
I have a game against WoC this coming Tuesday, size is 1500pts, I've not played this guy before so I don't know what to expect at all, here is what I'm thinking
Lords
L4 Beast weaver
Heroes
Wardancer noble w/ PoStrength & Stone of rebirth
Core
12 GG w/ banner & mus, banner of eternal flame
10 GG w/ mus
10 GG w/ mus
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
Special
8 Wardancers
Rare
Treeman
Great eagle
Total: 1500
Lords
L4 Beast weaver
Heroes
Wardancer noble w/ PoStrength & Stone of rebirth
Core
12 GG w/ banner & mus, banner of eternal flame
10 GG w/ mus
10 GG w/ mus
8 Dryads
8 Dryads
Special
8 Wardancers
Rare
Treeman
Great eagle
Total: 1500
"Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!"MyNameDidntFit wrote:I actually play Wood Elves because I saw this forum with threads like this and thought to myself "I could go for a bit of patting myself on the back for being awesome, I should start Wood Elves so I can join in"
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- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Hard to know what he might bring, WoC can play so many ways.
But you have flaming banner to deal with trolls, beastweaver to deal with DP (amber spear, although DPs at 1500pts are going to be a bit easier to kill), plenty of glade guard to shoot down chimeras, treeman to thunderstomp chaos warriors and dryads and eagle for chaff.
Stuff you will struggle with:
-Hellcannon: no BSB to reroll panic checks, no eagle noble (which is our best way to kill it in combat). I'd seriously recommend you consider a BSB with hail of doom arrow: rerolls are crucial for any army and the HoDA is a great way to take a chariot off the board
-Chariots: can be shot off with difficulty, otherwise options are slim.....but hard to fix this to be honest
-Skullcrushers: nothing we bring is a good counter to these. Best you can hope for is to kill one with amber spear, then flank charge with wardancers. Do the 4++ dance, and you should hopefully win combat and they MAY flee/die as a result. Yeah, not very optimistic.
in summary:
-I'd swap the WD noble for a BSB. BSBs are just too good in 8th ed to not bring one.
But you have flaming banner to deal with trolls, beastweaver to deal with DP (amber spear, although DPs at 1500pts are going to be a bit easier to kill), plenty of glade guard to shoot down chimeras, treeman to thunderstomp chaos warriors and dryads and eagle for chaff.
Stuff you will struggle with:
-Hellcannon: no BSB to reroll panic checks, no eagle noble (which is our best way to kill it in combat). I'd seriously recommend you consider a BSB with hail of doom arrow: rerolls are crucial for any army and the HoDA is a great way to take a chariot off the board
-Chariots: can be shot off with difficulty, otherwise options are slim.....but hard to fix this to be honest
-Skullcrushers: nothing we bring is a good counter to these. Best you can hope for is to kill one with amber spear, then flank charge with wardancers. Do the 4++ dance, and you should hopefully win combat and they MAY flee/die as a result. Yeah, not very optimistic.
in summary:
-I'd swap the WD noble for a BSB. BSBs are just too good in 8th ed to not bring one.
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
- godswearhats
- Elder of the Council
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
You kill Hellcannon with Eagle Nobles? What kit do you run on him?
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- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
I'm a stone of rebirth fan. Then the normal GW, dragonhelm, etc. Takes a couple combats if you don't do enough wounds on the charge, but it hasn't failed yet. Haven't run the maths though, maybe I got lucky.
3++ against non-magical attacks isn't as useful now that daemons are everywhere, so I've dropped the brooch from my build.
3++ against non-magical attacks isn't as useful now that daemons are everywhere, so I've dropped the brooch from my build.
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
- Findecano
- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
I take the point about the BSB, but in this list is there any point? The only realistic place to put him is in one of the archer units and aside from the odd rerolled panic check I can't see him being that useful.
A PoStr Wardancer nobles on the other hand can cause carnage on a variety of targets.
A PoStr Wardancer nobles on the other hand can cause carnage on a variety of targets.
"Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!"MyNameDidntFit wrote:I actually play Wood Elves because I saw this forum with threads like this and thought to myself "I could go for a bit of patting myself on the back for being awesome, I should start Wood Elves so I can join in"
- Findecano
- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Well the game wasn't quite what I was expecting
The chaos list was as follow
L4 Sorc lord with Lore of Tzeentch
BSB on Jugger with shield and talisman of preservation
Block of warriors (not sue exactly how many, looked like around 20) w/ full command, sword n board & Mark of Tzeentch
6 knights w/ Mark of Khorne, ensorc weapons & full command
War shrine
Hell cannon
He deployed a refused flank on the left, I deployed my glade guard in the centre and my dryads, eagle, treeman & Wardancers on the flank opposite his army.
Spells: I rolled curse of ahnreir, amber spear, savage beast and Wyssans Wildform
He rolled the Tzeentch sig spell, bolt of change, glean magic and a fire thrower spell
Chaos took the first turn
The knights and warriors moved up with the altar, the hell cannon stayed at the back
In the magic phase he rolled 3+4, neither side channeled
First spell attempt was the bound spell from the altar on two dice (total 6), comfortably dispelled with a single dice
Second spell (doom bolt) failed to reach the casting value
In the shoot phase the hell cannon dropped its load on top of the treeman, doing an ungodly 5 wounds to it.
Wood elf T1
The treeman, suitably enraged, ran into the wood in front of the chaos knights, (proving to be an abyssal wood) determined to sell his final wound dearly. The glade guard shuffled around a bit and the dryads and eagle advanced up the table while the Wardancers positioned themselves for a flank on the knights.
In the magic phase the winds of magic blew strongly, bestowing 11 power and 6 dispel dice, no channels again
For her first trick the spellweaver produced a low-level amber spear which took two wounds from the warshrine and a successfully cast curse of anhreir blighted the chaos knights.
Wyssans Wildform on one of the dryad units was dispelled and the treeman successfully cast Treesinging with my last dice, surfing him closer to the chaos knights.
In the shoot phase the treeman brought down a single knight with strangle root and the three units of glade guard pooled their shots to bring down a second.
Chaos T2
Unwilling to risk his knights to anhreirs curse the chaos BSB charged out of his unit to finish off the treeman, the knights stayed put with the warshrine advancing to block the Wardancers line of charge and the warriors marching up to join them.
A rather lacklustre magic phase yielded 6 power dice and 4 dispels with a successful channel for the wood elves bringing their total to 5.
The chaos sorceror successfully cast his fire thrower spell but rolled a mighty 10, sending the sheet of flame shooting over the heads of the dryads, just clipping the last one, who was duly converted to ash. Glean magic was found to be out of range and bolt of change was dispelled. The war shrines bound spell failed to reach its casting value on 1 Dice.
The hell cannon fired at the dryads and missed completely.
In the combat phase the chaos BSB swung at the treeman and missed with all his attacks, the treeman hit back, did 4 wounds and a catalogue of failed saves later the BSB was found to be dead, meanwhile his faithful jugger (fighting at the same step as the treeman) managed to stick its horn into the venerable tree's bark and finish him off too.
Wood elf T2
The Wardancers charged the warshrine, the dryads and eagle repositioned to surround the warriors, the archers moved up to come within short range of the warriors and knights.
In the magic phase the spell weaver successfully cast savage beast on the Wardancer noble and curse of anhreir on the warriors, Wyssans was cast on the Wardancers, but easily dispelled.
In the shoot phase the glade guard rained arrows down on the knights again, killing two more of them
In the combat phase the noble, bolstered by savage best, ripped through the warshrine in short order, the Wardancers overran into the chaos knights.
Chaos T3 - the tipping point
Not wanting to move his chaos warriors they stood helplessly by as the Wardancers continued their rampage
An epic roll of 11 for winds saw the chaos sorceror casting glean magic on the spell weaver on 4 dice. Predictably there was a double six in there somewhere and the spell went off. The two wizards duelled and mercifully the spell weaver came out on top, rolling a 5 vs the sorc's 4. He then proceded to roll 10 on the miscast chart and lost 3 wizard levels, leaving him with bolt of change as his only spell.
In the combat phase the Wardancer noble continued to enjoy himself (savage beast still in play) by ripping apart the chaos knight champion (in challenge) while the Wardancers inflicted enough killing blows to remove the remaining knights, the unit then overran into the front of the chaos warriors.
Wood elves T3
One of the dryads units charged in support of the Wardancers, flanking the chaos warriors, the eagle, still unsure of what he was really here to actually do, flew off towards the hell cannon.
The magic phase again yielded a large number of dice: 10 power and 5 dispel dice.
The spell weaver opened by casting high level amber spear on 5 dice, straight down the throat of the hell cannon, one failed war save and a roll of '6' for its multi-wound value and it was on its way back to the figure case... Treeman avenged.
Wyssans was cast successfully on the Wardancers, but savage beast was dispelled this time.
Wanting to make the most of their strength boost the Wardancers opted for the storm of blades dance. The noble was forced to duel the champion, bringing him down easily while the Wardancers and dryads killed 6 warriors between them.
The warriors managed to kill 4 Wardancers and a dryad, not enough to break even, but remaining steadfast they held.
Chaos T4
With everything else dead, the warrior combat continued
The noble was challenged by the chaos sorceror, guzzled down his potion of strength and ripped the sorceror's head off, the Wardancers danced 4++ and killed 2 warriors, while the dryads accounted for two more.
This time the warriors failed their steadfast break test and ran, caught by both the Wardancers and dryads.
Victory to the Asrai
Things to consider:
1. curse of anhreir makes your opponent really scared to move his stuff, esp if cast on high cost/high AS units.
2. Savage beast of Horros turns the humble Wardancer noble into a buzz-saw
The chaos list was as follow
L4 Sorc lord with Lore of Tzeentch
BSB on Jugger with shield and talisman of preservation
Block of warriors (not sue exactly how many, looked like around 20) w/ full command, sword n board & Mark of Tzeentch
6 knights w/ Mark of Khorne, ensorc weapons & full command
War shrine
Hell cannon
He deployed a refused flank on the left, I deployed my glade guard in the centre and my dryads, eagle, treeman & Wardancers on the flank opposite his army.
Spells: I rolled curse of ahnreir, amber spear, savage beast and Wyssans Wildform
He rolled the Tzeentch sig spell, bolt of change, glean magic and a fire thrower spell
Chaos took the first turn
The knights and warriors moved up with the altar, the hell cannon stayed at the back
In the magic phase he rolled 3+4, neither side channeled
First spell attempt was the bound spell from the altar on two dice (total 6), comfortably dispelled with a single dice
Second spell (doom bolt) failed to reach the casting value
In the shoot phase the hell cannon dropped its load on top of the treeman, doing an ungodly 5 wounds to it.
Wood elf T1
The treeman, suitably enraged, ran into the wood in front of the chaos knights, (proving to be an abyssal wood) determined to sell his final wound dearly. The glade guard shuffled around a bit and the dryads and eagle advanced up the table while the Wardancers positioned themselves for a flank on the knights.
In the magic phase the winds of magic blew strongly, bestowing 11 power and 6 dispel dice, no channels again
For her first trick the spellweaver produced a low-level amber spear which took two wounds from the warshrine and a successfully cast curse of anhreir blighted the chaos knights.
Wyssans Wildform on one of the dryad units was dispelled and the treeman successfully cast Treesinging with my last dice, surfing him closer to the chaos knights.
In the shoot phase the treeman brought down a single knight with strangle root and the three units of glade guard pooled their shots to bring down a second.
Chaos T2
Unwilling to risk his knights to anhreirs curse the chaos BSB charged out of his unit to finish off the treeman, the knights stayed put with the warshrine advancing to block the Wardancers line of charge and the warriors marching up to join them.
A rather lacklustre magic phase yielded 6 power dice and 4 dispels with a successful channel for the wood elves bringing their total to 5.
The chaos sorceror successfully cast his fire thrower spell but rolled a mighty 10, sending the sheet of flame shooting over the heads of the dryads, just clipping the last one, who was duly converted to ash. Glean magic was found to be out of range and bolt of change was dispelled. The war shrines bound spell failed to reach its casting value on 1 Dice.
The hell cannon fired at the dryads and missed completely.
In the combat phase the chaos BSB swung at the treeman and missed with all his attacks, the treeman hit back, did 4 wounds and a catalogue of failed saves later the BSB was found to be dead, meanwhile his faithful jugger (fighting at the same step as the treeman) managed to stick its horn into the venerable tree's bark and finish him off too.
Wood elf T2
The Wardancers charged the warshrine, the dryads and eagle repositioned to surround the warriors, the archers moved up to come within short range of the warriors and knights.
In the magic phase the spell weaver successfully cast savage beast on the Wardancer noble and curse of anhreir on the warriors, Wyssans was cast on the Wardancers, but easily dispelled.
In the shoot phase the glade guard rained arrows down on the knights again, killing two more of them
In the combat phase the noble, bolstered by savage best, ripped through the warshrine in short order, the Wardancers overran into the chaos knights.
Chaos T3 - the tipping point
Not wanting to move his chaos warriors they stood helplessly by as the Wardancers continued their rampage
An epic roll of 11 for winds saw the chaos sorceror casting glean magic on the spell weaver on 4 dice. Predictably there was a double six in there somewhere and the spell went off. The two wizards duelled and mercifully the spell weaver came out on top, rolling a 5 vs the sorc's 4. He then proceded to roll 10 on the miscast chart and lost 3 wizard levels, leaving him with bolt of change as his only spell.
In the combat phase the Wardancer noble continued to enjoy himself (savage beast still in play) by ripping apart the chaos knight champion (in challenge) while the Wardancers inflicted enough killing blows to remove the remaining knights, the unit then overran into the front of the chaos warriors.
Wood elves T3
One of the dryads units charged in support of the Wardancers, flanking the chaos warriors, the eagle, still unsure of what he was really here to actually do, flew off towards the hell cannon.
The magic phase again yielded a large number of dice: 10 power and 5 dispel dice.
The spell weaver opened by casting high level amber spear on 5 dice, straight down the throat of the hell cannon, one failed war save and a roll of '6' for its multi-wound value and it was on its way back to the figure case... Treeman avenged.
Wyssans was cast successfully on the Wardancers, but savage beast was dispelled this time.
Wanting to make the most of their strength boost the Wardancers opted for the storm of blades dance. The noble was forced to duel the champion, bringing him down easily while the Wardancers and dryads killed 6 warriors between them.
The warriors managed to kill 4 Wardancers and a dryad, not enough to break even, but remaining steadfast they held.
Chaos T4
With everything else dead, the warrior combat continued
The noble was challenged by the chaos sorceror, guzzled down his potion of strength and ripped the sorceror's head off, the Wardancers danced 4++ and killed 2 warriors, while the dryads accounted for two more.
This time the warriors failed their steadfast break test and ran, caught by both the Wardancers and dryads.
Victory to the Asrai
Things to consider:
1. curse of anhreir makes your opponent really scared to move his stuff, esp if cast on high cost/high AS units.
2. Savage beast of Horros turns the humble Wardancer noble into a buzz-saw
"Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!"MyNameDidntFit wrote:I actually play Wood Elves because I saw this forum with threads like this and thought to myself "I could go for a bit of patting myself on the back for being awesome, I should start Wood Elves so I can join in"
- Mollesvinet
- Wild Hunter
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 09 Nov 2011, 06:13
Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Beautiful game. A bit lucky to kill his hellcannon with a single amber spear, but hey, he also managed 5 wounds on the treeman first turn.
Seems you were right to go with the wardancer noble after all, huh? Nice timing with the potion of strength, the forced challenges of warriors can make them quite predictable!
Seems you were right to go with the wardancer noble after all, huh? Nice timing with the potion of strength, the forced challenges of warriors can make them quite predictable!
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- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Well played!
A very 7th edition style WoC list containing virtually none of the things I mentioned.
I am surprised your wardancers and dryads didn't just bounce off the tz warriors: he was failing that many 5+ armour and 5++ wards? Some quick math hammer says he can probably feel very unlucky about how that turned out.
It might not appear so from how this game turned out, but BSBs are unbelievably crucial. Rerolling panic checks is one thing, but let me put forward a few highly plausible scenarios with this list to demonstrate what I'm talking about.
-your treeman does one or less wounds and the bsb fails to cause a wound. Treeman loses combat due to battle standard and charge, is stubborn but fails his break check by one and is run down. You'd be even more annoyed if he was on full wounds. Help your treeman out and give him stubborn with a reroll and he is nigh unmoveable short of killing him.
-wardancers and dryads inflict two wounds or less, lose combat to static res (even if they take zero wounds back), both flee and are cut down. Mathhammer says they should have lost combat by around 2: having a reroll on your break check increases your chances of both passing on the required 6 dramatically.
-fail a swift reform with glade guard, miss a turn of shooting that causes a chaff unit to get into your mages unit. Fortunately he didn't bring anything small and fast, but most will.
I hope I've convinced you that a BSB is virtually mandatory in 8th edition.
If not....well I tried.
A very 7th edition style WoC list containing virtually none of the things I mentioned.
I am surprised your wardancers and dryads didn't just bounce off the tz warriors: he was failing that many 5+ armour and 5++ wards? Some quick math hammer says he can probably feel very unlucky about how that turned out.
It might not appear so from how this game turned out, but BSBs are unbelievably crucial. Rerolling panic checks is one thing, but let me put forward a few highly plausible scenarios with this list to demonstrate what I'm talking about.
-your treeman does one or less wounds and the bsb fails to cause a wound. Treeman loses combat due to battle standard and charge, is stubborn but fails his break check by one and is run down. You'd be even more annoyed if he was on full wounds. Help your treeman out and give him stubborn with a reroll and he is nigh unmoveable short of killing him.
-wardancers and dryads inflict two wounds or less, lose combat to static res (even if they take zero wounds back), both flee and are cut down. Mathhammer says they should have lost combat by around 2: having a reroll on your break check increases your chances of both passing on the required 6 dramatically.
-fail a swift reform with glade guard, miss a turn of shooting that causes a chaff unit to get into your mages unit. Fortunately he didn't bring anything small and fast, but most will.
I hope I've convinced you that a BSB is virtually mandatory in 8th edition.
If not....well I tried.
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
I'm glad I read this report i am fighting a 1500 point game against chaos soon too except I am pretty sure he doesn't have a hell cannon yet.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...
- Findecano
- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
I have another game coming up this Tuesday, 1600pts vs chaos dwarfs (Tamurkhan). All I've done is bulked out the Wardancers slightly and added the wand of wych elm. I'm slightly concerned for the safety of the treeman because I'm sure he will have all sorts of nasty warmachines to lob his way, but we'll just have to see how it goes.hutobega wrote:I'm glad I read this report i am fighting a 1500 point game against chaos soon too except I am pretty sure he doesn't have a hell cannon yet.
"Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!"MyNameDidntFit wrote:I actually play Wood Elves because I saw this forum with threads like this and thought to myself "I could go for a bit of patting myself on the back for being awesome, I should start Wood Elves so I can join in"
Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Good job! In my club recently there were 2 games: Asrai vs DoC and Asrai vs WoC both 1200 points and ETC-rules. Of destruction forces only 3 or 4 warriors left summarily in both games
- Findecano
- Bladesinger
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
Wow, wish I got to play with ETC rules, lore of metal and ASF would be awesome.Aemir wrote:Good job! In my club recently there were 2 games: Asrai vs DoC and Asrai vs WoC both 1200 points and ETC-rules. Of destruction forces only 3 or 4 warriors left summarily in both games
Anyways, got my chaos dwarf game tonight, I have changed things a little bit, including removing the Wardancers
Spellweaver with wand & Ironcurse icon
WR Noble with stag, HoDA & DBG
3x 10 Glade Guard with banner and musician
10 Dryads
8 Dryads
5 WRs, musician
Treeman
Eagle
"Aiya Eärendil Elenion Ancalima!"MyNameDidntFit wrote:I actually play Wood Elves because I saw this forum with threads like this and thought to myself "I could go for a bit of patting myself on the back for being awesome, I should start Wood Elves so I can join in"
- hutobega
- Wild Hunter
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Re: 1500pts game against WOC
kick some arse! keep treeman safe from too much fire.
How do we prove we exist? Maybe we don't...