1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
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1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Greetings everyone! I'm new to posting, but I've been reading and lurking for quite awhile. Anyway, I just started in a Warhammer Fantasy Campaign. I'm facing Dark Elf, Lizardmen, and Bretonnians opponents. As part of our starting arrangements, we all started off with two 'banners' of 1000 points each. One of my two banners is a fast cavalry banner (i.e. all troops are movement 6+). I gain some tactical advantage on the campaign map to be able to move more hexes in the campaign turns with a fast cavalry banner.
My issue is that I need a 2nd set of eyes on this to see if anyone can think of a better composition of units given my constraints. It has to be a 'legal' banner and we're not using named heroes. I'd say we're a friendly group, but we're all playing to win as well.
Here's my list - comments welcome
Wood Elf Noble - General, Wild Rider kindred, spear, HODA, elven steed - 152 pts
Wild Riders - 6x - 156 pts
Spellsinger - level 2, Calaingor's stave, a pageant of shrikes, elven steed - 187 pts
Glade Riders - 6x, musician - 153 pts
Glade Riders - 6x, horsemaster, musician - 162 pts
Warhawk riders - 3x, wind rider - 140 pts
Great Eagle - 50 pts
Total 1000 pts
My issue is that I need a 2nd set of eyes on this to see if anyone can think of a better composition of units given my constraints. It has to be a 'legal' banner and we're not using named heroes. I'd say we're a friendly group, but we're all playing to win as well.
Here's my list - comments welcome
Wood Elf Noble - General, Wild Rider kindred, spear, HODA, elven steed - 152 pts
Wild Riders - 6x - 156 pts
Spellsinger - level 2, Calaingor's stave, a pageant of shrikes, elven steed - 187 pts
Glade Riders - 6x, musician - 153 pts
Glade Riders - 6x, horsemaster, musician - 162 pts
Warhawk riders - 3x, wind rider - 140 pts
Great Eagle - 50 pts
Total 1000 pts
- Beithir Seun
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Welcome to the site Gothnomicon! Why don't you head over to the Glade of Gathering and introduce yourself to everyone?
Your list isn't too bad given your constraints, but there are several changes I would suggest.
~ Drop both Glade Rider units down to 5; you never need more than 5 in a unit, and any extra models are just wasted points.
~ Drop the Horsemaster from the Glade Rider unit; the only command model you will ever need is a musician - never champions.
~ Drop the Wind Rider from the Warhawk unit; same as above - champions are not necessary, nor are they worth the points.
~ Drop the Spellsinger; at this level you should not be facing enough magic to warrant taking one, nor do you have the points to spend on a second character. One character is all you need at 1000pts, and the more units you can get on the table the better.
Making those changes gives you a massive 264pts to play with. With those points, I would do the following:
~ Add a Standard Bearer and the Warbanner to the Wild Riders; these are your main combat troops so you have to give them as much punch as you can. A standard and the Warbanner gives them an extra +2CR which makes a huge difference. (-43pts)
~ Add a second unit of 6 Wild Riders with Standard Bearer (-174pts)
~ Add a fourth Warhawk to the unit (-40pts)
That should give you a new total of 993pts.
Losing the Spellsinger and trimming the unnecessary fat gets you an extra combat unit (which you sorely need), adds extra punch to your original combat unit and greatly improves the effectiveness and efficiency of the Warhawks.
Your list isn't too bad given your constraints, but there are several changes I would suggest.
~ Drop both Glade Rider units down to 5; you never need more than 5 in a unit, and any extra models are just wasted points.
~ Drop the Horsemaster from the Glade Rider unit; the only command model you will ever need is a musician - never champions.
~ Drop the Wind Rider from the Warhawk unit; same as above - champions are not necessary, nor are they worth the points.
~ Drop the Spellsinger; at this level you should not be facing enough magic to warrant taking one, nor do you have the points to spend on a second character. One character is all you need at 1000pts, and the more units you can get on the table the better.
Making those changes gives you a massive 264pts to play with. With those points, I would do the following:
~ Add a Standard Bearer and the Warbanner to the Wild Riders; these are your main combat troops so you have to give them as much punch as you can. A standard and the Warbanner gives them an extra +2CR which makes a huge difference. (-43pts)
~ Add a second unit of 6 Wild Riders with Standard Bearer (-174pts)
~ Add a fourth Warhawk to the unit (-40pts)
That should give you a new total of 993pts.
Losing the Spellsinger and trimming the unnecessary fat gets you an extra combat unit (which you sorely need), adds extra punch to your original combat unit and greatly improves the effectiveness and efficiency of the Warhawks.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
I don't think your noble is allowed the HODA, because he is Wild Rider Kin.Gothnomicon wrote: Wood Elf Noble - General, Wild Rider kindred, spear, HODA, elven steed - 152 pts
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Everyone,
Thanks for your comments. I agree with most everything Beithir suggested. I didn't provide my reasoning for putting the Spellsinger into the list. I faced the Dark Elf player a couple weeks back in a 1000 pt matchup. He wiped the floor with me as I've 1.) not been playing WHFB nearly as long as he has and 2.) I'm very new to woodies. In that matchup he had both a fighter lord and a sorcerer. The sorcerer did the most damage to me on the entire Dark Elf side because I only had 2 dispel dice to counter his 4+ casting dice (variable with Power of Darkness). I think he's planning to field that same (or nearly same) army in our campaign. I really don't want to be that vulnerable to the magic phase (especially against DE). I know I can shoot the unit that has the sorcerer, but the hydra (and to a lesser extent the manticore) were also pressing needs for shooting targets.
I'll see if I can't revise this list further to bring more to bear here. Thanks for the advice!
- Goth
Thanks for your comments. I agree with most everything Beithir suggested. I didn't provide my reasoning for putting the Spellsinger into the list. I faced the Dark Elf player a couple weeks back in a 1000 pt matchup. He wiped the floor with me as I've 1.) not been playing WHFB nearly as long as he has and 2.) I'm very new to woodies. In that matchup he had both a fighter lord and a sorcerer. The sorcerer did the most damage to me on the entire Dark Elf side because I only had 2 dispel dice to counter his 4+ casting dice (variable with Power of Darkness). I think he's planning to field that same (or nearly same) army in our campaign. I really don't want to be that vulnerable to the magic phase (especially against DE). I know I can shoot the unit that has the sorcerer, but the hydra (and to a lesser extent the manticore) were also pressing needs for shooting targets.
I'll see if I can't revise this list further to bring more to bear here. Thanks for the advice!
- Goth
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Gladerunner,
You are correct that the HODA and Wild Rider kin are mutually exclusive. I relied too much on Army Builder in this instance. Nice catch!
- Goth
You are correct that the HODA and Wild Rider kin are mutually exclusive. I relied too much on Army Builder in this instance. Nice catch!
- Goth
- Shankey
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
The darkies had a sorceress, a hydra, AND a manticore at 1000pts? What else was in that army? Couldn't have been much.
Remember that your wild riders come with magic resistance, and your longbows outrange everything in his army Except the bolt throwers, and he can't take those if he has a hydra.
You shouldn't really worry about magic at this level, or the hydra for that matter, since the slowest unit in your army is M9. That manticore is the only thing that can catch you (ok, so can harpys), but wild riders should be able to deal with it once it gets close enough.
Remember that your wild riders come with magic resistance, and your longbows outrange everything in his army Except the bolt throwers, and he can't take those if he has a hydra.
You shouldn't really worry about magic at this level, or the hydra for that matter, since the slowest unit in your army is M9. That manticore is the only thing that can catch you (ok, so can harpys), but wild riders should be able to deal with it once it gets close enough.
- Beithir Seun
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
If you're worried about magic and expect to be facing at least one sorceress then take the Spellsinger as your only Hero instead. Really, it doesn't matter which character you keep as your general so long as you only have the single character. If you require the magic defence then keep the Spellsinger in the above list and instead drop the WR Noble. It may mean you have less points to make changes with but that is easily solved - simply forget about taking the fourth Warhawk.
If you do keep the Spellsinger, I would suggest swapping the Pageant for a Dispel Scroll instead. Honestly, Pageant is of next to no use to a Spellsinger; you have to come within 18" of the target, you need LoS to use it (which usually means the enemy also has LoS to you...) and it is only a single shot. All in all, it's ineffective and only exposes your Spellsinger to unnecessary danger. Keep her hidden out of the way, out of range of enemy missiles and spells as much as possible. The whole point of giving her a steed (aside from your all-mounted restriction) is to give her the mobility to avoid these threats, not so she can march right up to them!
As for fighting the Druchii, Shankey is spot on. With a Manticore, Hydra and Sorceress (as well as the Master riding the Manticore), there are not many points left with which the Druchii player can bulk out his army. To be honest, a Fast Cavalry force is probably the best one you could have to face this army! You have the mobility and range to avoid the Hydra and stay out the Manticore's way, as well as staying out of range of the Crossbowmen and magic. Use the Warhawks and Glade Riders to pick off units from range (Crossbowmen, Harpies and Dark Riders first). Use the speed, 30" range and 360 degree LoS to make things as difficult as possible for the Druchii player to get a shot at them. Crossbows only have a 24" range, and all the Dark Magic spells have a range of 24" or less (only three actually have 24" range). If you can stay within that magic 6" corridor between 24" and 30" you can minimise the damage to your own units whilst attacking his without penalty. Avoid the Hydra and Manticore as much as you can (the Great Eagle will make great bait for the Manticore, especially if it goes Frenzied) while you pick off the rest of his army from distance. Even if you do no damage to the Manticore or Hydra, you will still get a victory if you kill his other units off without suffering any major losses.
And if all my rambling isn't enough, have a read of the Art of War: Dark Elves article in the LEAF!
If you do keep the Spellsinger, I would suggest swapping the Pageant for a Dispel Scroll instead. Honestly, Pageant is of next to no use to a Spellsinger; you have to come within 18" of the target, you need LoS to use it (which usually means the enemy also has LoS to you...) and it is only a single shot. All in all, it's ineffective and only exposes your Spellsinger to unnecessary danger. Keep her hidden out of the way, out of range of enemy missiles and spells as much as possible. The whole point of giving her a steed (aside from your all-mounted restriction) is to give her the mobility to avoid these threats, not so she can march right up to them!
As for fighting the Druchii, Shankey is spot on. With a Manticore, Hydra and Sorceress (as well as the Master riding the Manticore), there are not many points left with which the Druchii player can bulk out his army. To be honest, a Fast Cavalry force is probably the best one you could have to face this army! You have the mobility and range to avoid the Hydra and stay out the Manticore's way, as well as staying out of range of the Crossbowmen and magic. Use the Warhawks and Glade Riders to pick off units from range (Crossbowmen, Harpies and Dark Riders first). Use the speed, 30" range and 360 degree LoS to make things as difficult as possible for the Druchii player to get a shot at them. Crossbows only have a 24" range, and all the Dark Magic spells have a range of 24" or less (only three actually have 24" range). If you can stay within that magic 6" corridor between 24" and 30" you can minimise the damage to your own units whilst attacking his without penalty. Avoid the Hydra and Manticore as much as you can (the Great Eagle will make great bait for the Manticore, especially if it goes Frenzied) while you pick off the rest of his army from distance. Even if you do no damage to the Manticore or Hydra, you will still get a victory if you kill his other units off without suffering any major losses.
And if all my rambling isn't enough, have a read of the Art of War: Dark Elves article in the LEAF!
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
I believe that you can still take the HoDA with the Wild Rider Kindred, as he does not lose his bow, and it does not say you cant take enchanted items. All the kindred limits for items is that you have to take a spear as a magic weapon if you take one, and that they can only take a suit of magic armor, not the HoTH for example.
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
RE: Dark Elf 1000 pt list
Think it was the following (from memory):
Sorceress - Lore of Dark, L2, ~50 pts magic something - 185 pts
Warriors (core) - 15x - 84 pts (sorceress was in this unit)
Noble - Gen, HW, Hal, LA, Sea, Sh, Manticore, Ring of Darkness (1/2 WS and BS vs. this unit, ouch!) - 332 pts
War Hydra - 175
Shades - 5x or 6x - 96 pts
Dark Riders (core) - 5x - 85 pts
Total (~1000)
I quickly took care of the dark riders and shades, but gassed on getting rid of the Hydra, Manticore (w/ 1/2 BS vs him), and Sorceress.
Think it was the following (from memory):
Sorceress - Lore of Dark, L2, ~50 pts magic something - 185 pts
Warriors (core) - 15x - 84 pts (sorceress was in this unit)
Noble - Gen, HW, Hal, LA, Sea, Sh, Manticore, Ring of Darkness (1/2 WS and BS vs. this unit, ouch!) - 332 pts
War Hydra - 175
Shades - 5x or 6x - 96 pts
Dark Riders (core) - 5x - 85 pts
Total (~1000)
I quickly took care of the dark riders and shades, but gassed on getting rid of the Hydra, Manticore (w/ 1/2 BS vs him), and Sorceress.
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
RE: HODA and Wild Rider Kindreds
From the WE Army Book (p 67) under WR Kindreds
"They may not choose any additional weapons or armour, ..." - I would read this to mean HODA is not allowed. However, Army Builder allows it. I haven't checked FAQs and errata yet.
From the WE Army Book (p 67) under WR Kindreds
"They may not choose any additional weapons or armour, ..." - I would read this to mean HODA is not allowed. However, Army Builder allows it. I haven't checked FAQs and errata yet.
- ArchMagosAlchemys
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
HoDA is not a Magic Weapon, it is an Enchanted Item and, according to the GW FAQ, they retain a longbow to shoot it from.
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
OK, I think I've got it figured out. I really like the idea of just dropping the noble and keeping the Spellsinger, especially against my perceived DE threat.
Here's how the list shakes out now:
Spellsinger - Elven steed, Lore of Athel Loren, Gen, L2, HW, Long, Calaingor's Stave, Dispel Scroll - 187 pts
Wild Runners - 6x, Spr, LA, War Banner - 199 pts
Wild Runners - 6x, Spr, LA - 174 pts
Glade Riders - 5x, Long, Spr, Horsemaster (about the only thing to do with 9 pts) - 138 pts
Glade Riders - 5x, Long, Spr - 129 pts
Warhawk Riders - 3x, Long, Spr - 120 pts
Great Eagle - 50 pts
Total - 997 pts
Thanks everyone for the advice. There is a chance I may be playing this list this weekend depending on the campaign maneuvers.
Here's how the list shakes out now:
Spellsinger - Elven steed, Lore of Athel Loren, Gen, L2, HW, Long, Calaingor's Stave, Dispel Scroll - 187 pts
Wild Runners - 6x, Spr, LA, War Banner - 199 pts
Wild Runners - 6x, Spr, LA - 174 pts
Glade Riders - 5x, Long, Spr, Horsemaster (about the only thing to do with 9 pts) - 138 pts
Glade Riders - 5x, Long, Spr - 129 pts
Warhawk Riders - 3x, Long, Spr - 120 pts
Great Eagle - 50 pts
Total - 997 pts
Thanks everyone for the advice. There is a chance I may be playing this list this weekend depending on the campaign maneuvers.
Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Exciting list! Please let us know how it goes.
- Allendor
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
I take it that Wild runners are riders? If so I 'd really like to hear how this list does. I run a simalar list without the Wild's and more Warhawks and some WW. But this is interesting to me, fast army. The WR's are not fast cav.
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Re: 1000 pts - Fast Cavalry
Pardon? Wild Riders are fast cav, if you meant Warhawks (WhR), no, they are flying cavalry.Allendor wrote:The WR's are not fast cav.