Wardancers V. Dryads
Moderator: Council of Elders
Wardancers V. Dryads
Hello all.
I'm considering building a woodelf army because I really like the armylists I've been looking at. The only thing I dont understand is the dynamic between Dryads and Wardancers.
Dryads are core, and cheaper, people seem to love them
Wardancers are special, and more expensive, they've got I guess some versatility from dances.
What makes you choose one over the other (assuming you just want another melee block and have a special slot open)
Sorry if thats obvious, I dont see it yet
Wevoka
I'm considering building a woodelf army because I really like the armylists I've been looking at. The only thing I dont understand is the dynamic between Dryads and Wardancers.
Dryads are core, and cheaper, people seem to love them
Wardancers are special, and more expensive, they've got I guess some versatility from dances.
What makes you choose one over the other (assuming you just want another melee block and have a special slot open)
Sorry if thats obvious, I dont see it yet
Wevoka
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- Bladesinger
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In some circumstances Wardancers are better and others Dryads. Mostly i prefer Dryads because of the expendibility factor. Wardancers have to be used much more carefully but are much more devastating on the charge. Dryads if charged hold better and handle shooting a lot better due to the S4 T4 and 5+ ward, also Dryads have more staying power in a combat that doesn't break on the charge.
I'm my experience of using both, I find Wardancers are much higher-variance than Dryads. Sometimes Wardancers can be spectacularly good, other times they will be spectacularly bad, whereas Dryads are more or less always "solid". The problem is with Wardancers you pay for them as if you'll get the spectacularly good outcome with them every time, but don't always get that...
If you're askinng on a strictly tactical sense, point for point, min/maxing, etc. then sticking with Dryads is no loss at all. They are expendable yet deadly. But if you like the awesome variety and fun Wardancers offer, and are willing to suffer some really bad times to enjoy some unbelievably good ones, then go ahead and throw some Wardancers into the fray :-).
If you're askinng on a strictly tactical sense, point for point, min/maxing, etc. then sticking with Dryads is no loss at all. They are expendable yet deadly. But if you like the awesome variety and fun Wardancers offer, and are willing to suffer some really bad times to enjoy some unbelievably good ones, then go ahead and throw some Wardancers into the fray :-).
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- Horsemaster
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I think there are tonnes of situations where chucking in a unit of wardancers is a really safe option where as chucking in a unit of dryads is a huge risk. I find dryads can't beat much in close combat because they can't get enough attacks in while wardancers can beat almost anything they charge due to their versatility (dances) and the number of attacks they can get in.
while wardancers are far superior on the offensive, dryads are superior on the defensive. They can take more shooting and recieve a charge better. Wardancers can't do this, they can't even stand up against a light breeze (T3 with no armour tends to do that to u)
So I think to get full use and points out of both unit types, take a unit of each and get the dryads to screen the wardancers until they are close enough to get into CC where the wardancers will be able to deal out a whole lot more damage then the dryads.
while wardancers are far superior on the offensive, dryads are superior on the defensive. They can take more shooting and recieve a charge better. Wardancers can't do this, they can't even stand up against a light breeze (T3 with no armour tends to do that to u)
So I think to get full use and points out of both unit types, take a unit of each and get the dryads to screen the wardancers until they are close enough to get into CC where the wardancers will be able to deal out a whole lot more damage then the dryads.
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Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
Really, it's beyond what you see on the statline. In my opinion, dryads and wardancers are two quite different units.
As everyone above stated, wardancers (at 50% more cost though) break enemies in home and garden, with their close combat versality. The talismanic tatoos -ward and MR are just assets that help you getting through there. With smaller bases, they punch in more attacks too. What's there to say, sure they are more expensive and take up a special slot, but they outtake dryads in combat any day.
Dryads aren't just of combat though, but they are the ideal core multitasking unit. With skirmish, toughness 4, and forest spirit abilities, they make for cheap screens that don't budge, or take out units (swarms, hosts) that are on the way and pesky to deal with. They drain missile fire (protecting your valuable wardancers from being pounded to flesh gutter for their toughness 3), and are even able to take the occasional charge from a typical minimum cavalry unit, for example. And they usually do more than they take when using for flank or support charges with other troops.
Here's where we have a cheap core asset unit, and a hard hitting special unit. There's a ton of uses for dryads, but wardancers are rather expensive to be used in any other purpose than punching through lines. I find use for both of them in my army: usually fielding 2-3 units of dryads and one troupe of dancers (they get expensive and the fragility shows when there's a lot of them).
As everyone above stated, wardancers (at 50% more cost though) break enemies in home and garden, with their close combat versality. The talismanic tatoos -ward and MR are just assets that help you getting through there. With smaller bases, they punch in more attacks too. What's there to say, sure they are more expensive and take up a special slot, but they outtake dryads in combat any day.
Dryads aren't just of combat though, but they are the ideal core multitasking unit. With skirmish, toughness 4, and forest spirit abilities, they make for cheap screens that don't budge, or take out units (swarms, hosts) that are on the way and pesky to deal with. They drain missile fire (protecting your valuable wardancers from being pounded to flesh gutter for their toughness 3), and are even able to take the occasional charge from a typical minimum cavalry unit, for example. And they usually do more than they take when using for flank or support charges with other troops.
Here's where we have a cheap core asset unit, and a hard hitting special unit. There's a ton of uses for dryads, but wardancers are rather expensive to be used in any other purpose than punching through lines. I find use for both of them in my army: usually fielding 2-3 units of dryads and one troupe of dancers (they get expensive and the fragility shows when there's a lot of them).
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- Trusted Bowman
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- Deathjester
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There is never an armylist that i won't find place for 1 unit of wardancers, and 2 units of dryads.
My wardancers might not do well in combat everygame, but they are a huge deterent, people have seen what they can do, and they can be so hard it's almost not true.
I've used them to take charges from units of knights, then kill all the knights in the second round of combat with killing blow.
Dryads, again may not do spectacularly well, but will provide another base combat unit, which is very effective.
There are 2 MAJOR advantages to wardancers:
They are more versatile (they can choose +1 attack etc.)
And the most important, they are on smaller bases, therefore you can get more into combat increasing the killing power of these evil little monkeys....
Dryads charge a unit on 20mm bases 5 wide.... you can get 6 dryads in combat.
12 attacks
assuming WS 4, you hit with 6 & assuming t4 you wound with 4. -1 AS, assume no save.
so 4 dead.
so 4 CR
Charged unit has: 3 ranks, std, outnumber = 5 & thus wins combat.
Wardancers charging the same unit: 7 in combat.....
21 attacks, 14 hits (hitting on 3's)
9 wounds (wounding on 3's again)
So the wardancers have killed 5 more models than the dryads.
The wardancers win by 4 (assuming the champion doesn't kill anyone).
If you're charging something with a loew armour save, the wardancers can be thrown into the front of a unit, where as you can't really afford to do that with a unit of dryads.
My wardancers might not do well in combat everygame, but they are a huge deterent, people have seen what they can do, and they can be so hard it's almost not true.
I've used them to take charges from units of knights, then kill all the knights in the second round of combat with killing blow.
Dryads, again may not do spectacularly well, but will provide another base combat unit, which is very effective.
There are 2 MAJOR advantages to wardancers:
They are more versatile (they can choose +1 attack etc.)
And the most important, they are on smaller bases, therefore you can get more into combat increasing the killing power of these evil little monkeys....
Dryads charge a unit on 20mm bases 5 wide.... you can get 6 dryads in combat.
12 attacks
assuming WS 4, you hit with 6 & assuming t4 you wound with 4. -1 AS, assume no save.
so 4 dead.
so 4 CR
Charged unit has: 3 ranks, std, outnumber = 5 & thus wins combat.
Wardancers charging the same unit: 7 in combat.....
21 attacks, 14 hits (hitting on 3's)
9 wounds (wounding on 3's again)
So the wardancers have killed 5 more models than the dryads.
The wardancers win by 4 (assuming the champion doesn't kill anyone).
If you're charging something with a loew armour save, the wardancers can be thrown into the front of a unit, where as you can't really afford to do that with a unit of dryads.
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- Shadow Sentinel
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- Bladesinger
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Wardancers V. Dryads
Thanks a lot for your responses. I think I understand the usefulness of the wardancers now.
I'm still building my WE army now, geared for 1,000 points (while we start out, test ect.) we'll move to 2k later. my other question is, how many WD should be put in a unit? it seems like people like units of 8 dryads as fairly cheap/light.
thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Wevoka
I'm still building my WE army now, geared for 1,000 points (while we start out, test ect.) we'll move to 2k later. my other question is, how many WD should be put in a unit? it seems like people like units of 8 dryads as fairly cheap/light.
thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Wevoka
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- Trusted Bowman
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I always take dryads, but wardancers can be rather ineffective agaisnt low armor, high toughness, lots of attacks units. Beast Herds spring to mind. They are really terrible (I dont know why) vs beast herds. I put 10 wardancers agaisnt 16 beasts and got flattened for about 4-5 casulties in return. Otherwise, they're a good option, and i try to include about 8.
The brightest lights cast the darkest shadows...
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- Horsemaster
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How did that happen? :blink: A charging unit using the +1A dance will kill a beastmen each. That means a 5 frontage means 7 in combat and 7 kills. I think they work well against all infantry, even heavy armour, high toughness, so beastmen they should have no problem with...
Anyway, yeah, 8 is a good number.
Anyway, yeah, 8 is a good number.
No, its not Sydney...
Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
- Maeglin
- Bladesinger
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Wardancers are my first choice everytime for the reasons allready listed, in fact i'm still trying in many of the games i play to break my habit of working to my 2:1 ratio i,e 2 Glade Guard to every Wardancer, a hold over from the older versions of the wood elf list.
Adding a proper contibution to the thread, Wardancers just look plain better then dryads on the battlefield!
Overall if you've got the points get the dancers, unless you've got a specific role in mind for the dryads such as a screen or sacraficial unit.
Adding a proper contibution to the thread, Wardancers just look plain better then dryads on the battlefield!
Overall if you've got the points get the dancers, unless you've got a specific role in mind for the dryads such as a screen or sacraficial unit.
Follower of the Trickster God.
While I agree with alot of what has been said i think one thing has been seriously overlooked - fear! Dryards, those 12pts models (yep one of the cheapest models we can buy) cause fear. That means that they can auto break units. Yep wardancers may well be able to win combat but your oppenent can still pass his leadership test - esp as we have very little static combat res. Dryads however only need to win by one point and as long as you have enough of them (or wild riders, dragon, treeman, treekin etc) off your opponent goes!
Overall though I think a mix is required. Wardancers can seriously harm the extreme units - knights/charecters - killing blow, runts - +1A and the big hitters 4+ ward. However they don't want to get stuck in combat -T3 and the inability to repeat your dance means that you can't dish out or recieve as well every turn. Therefore they are not good at your better than average foot trooper ranked up with a 4+ AS. They also seriously have to avoid missile fire (have you ever watched wardancers get HoDA). Wardancers are also special so they are competing against some pretty good units.
Dryards do not hit as hard as wardancers but if used together they should only have to win by one and the fear will do the rest. Also they are more resilent. There are of course those units that cause fear, esp those with magic and then your dryads are not looking so good! Also against high armour wardancers are the unit to use
So they are similiar units - but have different targets. And as most armies have a mixture of those targets take both!
Overall though I think a mix is required. Wardancers can seriously harm the extreme units - knights/charecters - killing blow, runts - +1A and the big hitters 4+ ward. However they don't want to get stuck in combat -T3 and the inability to repeat your dance means that you can't dish out or recieve as well every turn. Therefore they are not good at your better than average foot trooper ranked up with a 4+ AS. They also seriously have to avoid missile fire (have you ever watched wardancers get HoDA). Wardancers are also special so they are competing against some pretty good units.
Dryards do not hit as hard as wardancers but if used together they should only have to win by one and the fear will do the rest. Also they are more resilent. There are of course those units that cause fear, esp those with magic and then your dryads are not looking so good! Also against high armour wardancers are the unit to use
So they are similiar units - but have different targets. And as most armies have a mixture of those targets take both!
Garbod
Can't think of anything intelligent so will just smile
Can't think of anything intelligent so will just smile
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- Bladesinger
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I always take Wardancers because
1) I have a small army so have to.
2) I like the models.
3) On the charge, you can get 3 S4 attacks, which in a unit of 8 with a First Dancer, is up to 25 S4 attacks!!! Admittedly I really only get 5 or 6 into comtact, but that's still 16-19 attacks. A wardancer charge will decimate Orc units, and most things in the game.
1) I have a small army so have to.
2) I like the models.
3) On the charge, you can get 3 S4 attacks, which in a unit of 8 with a First Dancer, is up to 25 S4 attacks!!! Admittedly I really only get 5 or 6 into comtact, but that's still 16-19 attacks. A wardancer charge will decimate Orc units, and most things in the game.
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- Trusted Bowman
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Choose Dryads and Wardancers both,they make a very effective team.Dryads are your mainstay with your Gladeguard as they are Core and VERY cheap for what they are.Dryads are versatile and probably your most numerous CC troops.Wardancers are ELITE!!! they are even more versatile than Dryads,they massace light to medium infantry and can get enough casualtys to win a combat Vs big blocks of troops without assistance(but you should allways combine charges if possible),Can assasinate characters and do quite well against heavy cavalry if supported,they have WS6! and the possibility of a 4+ Ward,plus you can give them are very nasty character to really make them good.Dryads are great screens and allways seem to have many uses against any opoements.You should take alot of Dryads(2-3 units of 8 with a Branchnymph in 2000pt games) in my opinion,they make excelent troops in my opinion and can support any other CC unit you have(2 units of Dryads combining charges are pretty damn effective),if need be you can sacrifice them,their great for filling in gaps in your line.And as
for Wardancers,ALLWAYS have atleast one unit in your army as they are really good,able to peform a number of tasks all in the same battle.Once again Dryads and Wardancers work very well together.
for Wardancers,ALLWAYS have atleast one unit in your army as they are really good,able to peform a number of tasks all in the same battle.Once again Dryads and Wardancers work very well together.
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Let us play the time-honored game of heart seeker from afar
Let us play the time-honored game of heart seeker from afar
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- Horsemaster
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I think I had a game yesterday the really accents the difference in both units uses. I had a dryad unit screening a wardancer unit against a LM player. 3 Sallies shoot the dryads, killing a single dryad (Okay, a bit lucky but not overly lucky) but then his CoR's charge the dryads and absolutly run them into the ground without even trying and then overrun into the wardancers. Now the wardancers take the charge and use KB in the next turn to wipe them out completely with their attacks. Later in the game the salamanders (Only 2 left) get a clear shot due to a really stupid mistake by me and they take out 5 wardancers.
No, its not Sydney...
Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
Nope, not Melbourne either...
Come on, u can do it...
You got to have had a load of luck being able to take a charge from a unit of cold one riders. I mean, that's a load of attacks, and even if they only hit on 4+, they'll would on 3's or 2's, and, OUCH. What did you have in the wardancer unit? And how was the CoRs?Puppyblue wrote:then overrun into the wardancers. Now the wardancers take the charge and use KB in the next turn to wipe them out completely with their attacks. .
I've taken two units of eight Dryads and one unit of eight Wardancers with musician in every game I've played. Those three units give me a ton of flexibility in how I play, and allow me to do a lot of different things, depending on the opponent.
My Wardancers are my main combat unit, and I tend to send them at my opponent's second strongest unit, my Great Eagle baits and redirects the strongest, while my Dryads screen, cover flanks and try to give support in combat where needed. My Wardancers also make for a very nice hiding spot for my Spellweaver against all of those attacks that can single out individual characters. The Magic Resistance of the Wardancers tends to make them a less delicate target with the Spellweaver than any other unit he could go in.
I've been toying with a list that will add another unit of eight Dryads though. For the points they can do so much, I'm just concerned about their inability to flee a charge. It would throw off the 1:1 ratio I have of units that can flee to units that can't.
My Wardancers are my main combat unit, and I tend to send them at my opponent's second strongest unit, my Great Eagle baits and redirects the strongest, while my Dryads screen, cover flanks and try to give support in combat where needed. My Wardancers also make for a very nice hiding spot for my Spellweaver against all of those attacks that can single out individual characters. The Magic Resistance of the Wardancers tends to make them a less delicate target with the Spellweaver than any other unit he could go in.
I've been toying with a list that will add another unit of eight Dryads though. For the points they can do so much, I'm just concerned about their inability to flee a charge. It would throw off the 1:1 ratio I have of units that can flee to units that can't.