The new lore of Athel Loren?

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Dalsgaard
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The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Dalsgaard »

I think it is safe to say that we will get a new lore in the upcoming book.
I am curious to hear what your predictions/wishes are. I wont say I have enough gaming experience to give a qualified bid on it, but I will give it a go anyways:

Attribute: Harmony with nature. The wizard ignores miscasts on 6+

Signature: Treesinging as is, but change "partially within a forest" to within 6" of a forest.
1. The hidden path. Works as moonstone, but can be cast on any unit
2. Conjure forest. Remains in play. Place a forest within 24" Disappears if dispelled.
3. Skin of magic bark. Remains in play. The target unit gains +2 toughness and immune to flaming attacks.
4. Bow of Loren. D6+1 S6 hits, AP
5. Call of the hunt. Range 18" +1A and +1S
6. Ariels blessing. The unit restores half of lost wounds/models

It might be insanly owerpowered or really silly and weak. What do you think? How would your list look like?
Last edited by Dalsgaard on 11 Apr 2014, 16:19, edited 2 times in total.
albertoalter
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by albertoalter »

Really really Overpowered i think...

Lore Attribute is HUGE,
Ariel blessing is impossible to see (think, 40 Eternal Guard, when they,re 15 you restore the whole unit. Better then VC),
Skin of Magic Bark, it's ok if you pick out Unbreakable
Also Hidden Path is too strong, maybe is ok if only to character, but is still strong.

I think that your lore would get too much high casting level, and it become useless...

Just my 2 cents
Last edited by albertoalter on 12 Apr 2014, 01:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Dalsgaard
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Dalsgaard »

Yeah, thought so :-) I play MSU, so I didnt really think about huge units. Edited it...
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

I think you have created a powerful lore. I like it.

The extra range of Tree singing is awesome and makes sense.
Cool idea for the moon stone spell.
I really do think we'll get a spell to conjure a forest.
+2T & immune to flaming...love it! Immune to flaming special rule ..."Mossy skin" :p Haha!
Bow of Loren...like it a good magic missile spell
Call of the hunt.. is that the ability to make an additional movement or charge in the magic phase? ...I can't remember!?
Ariels blessing is a bit over kill, I think it would have to be D6 wounds or something.

The casting maybe quite high for some of them. Do army lores get a buff version of spells like the BRB lores?

...I'd actually use this lore! Plus GW would see an increase in sales of citadel woods Haha!

Good Job Dalsgaard! :D
Long live the King in the Woods!!!
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Dalsgaard »

Gwill_of_the_Woods wrote:I think you have created a powerful lore. I like it.

The extra range of Tree singing is awesome and makes sense.
Cool idea for the moon stone spell.
I really do think we'll get a spell to conjure a forest.
+2T & immune to flaming...love it! Immune to flaming special rule ..."Mossy skin" :p Haha!
Bow of Loren...like it a good magic missile spell
Call of the hunt.. is that the ability to make an additional movement or charge in the magic phase? ...I can't remember!?
Ariels blessing is a bit over kill, I think it would have to be D6 wounds or something.

The casting maybe quite high for some of them. Do army lores get a buff version of spells like the BRB lores?

...I'd actually use this lore! Plus GW would see an increase in sales of citadel woods Haha!

Good Job Dalsgaard! :D
Thanks! :-)

I think I went a bit far with the 6th spell, but I wanted a really good one like dwellers, but with a positive effect. All the biggest spells are destructive, so it could be cool to be the army with the REALLY good augment spell.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

I agree and like your way of thinking. A positive big spell buff! :D
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Avian »

Could you post the version of the lore you had before your edit so that i can compare the two please?
I really like the idea of being able to summon extra forests, it would work well for the army. Many of the newer Lores have two versions of their spells the small one and a larger one that is harder to cast. what do people think they might do for the larger ones with these spells? For example on the forest one it could be a magic forest that you randomly generate from the table in the main book.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Dalsgaard »

Sure! The first overpowered version:

Attribute: Harmony with nature. The wizard ignores miscasts on 5+

Signature: Treesinging as is, but change "partially within a forest" to within 6" of a forest.
1. The hidden path. Works as moonstone, but can be cast on any unit
2. Conjure forest. Remains in play. Place a forest within 24" Disappears if dispelled.
3. Skin of magic bark. Remains in play. The target unit gains +2 toughness, are stubborn and immune to flaming attacks.
4. Bow of Loren. D6+1 S6 hits, AP
5. Call of the hunt. Range 18" +1A and +1S
6. Ariels blessing. The unit restores all lost wounds/models.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Avian »

The one you've just posted could perhaps be used for the upgraded version of the spells? they would need to have VERY high cast values though

If as some rumours have been saying we get Ariel back and (and it's a big if) she keeps the +1 to all attempts to cast LoAL she would be a very VERY powerful character as she would be level 4 so she would get a +5 to all attempts to cast the Lore and it would make it more than possible for her to cast these without too much trouble.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Avian wrote:The one you've just posted could perhaps be used for the upgraded version of the spells? they would need to have VERY high cast values though

If as some rumours have been saying we get Ariel back and (and it's a big if) she keeps the +1 to all attempts to cast LoAL she would be a very VERY powerful character as she would be level 4 so she would get a +5 to all attempts to cast the Lore and it would make it more than possible for her to cast these without too much trouble.
Not to go off subject, but was Ariel a loremaster of Athel Loren?
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Avian »

Gwill_of_the_Woods wrote:Not to go off subject, but was Ariel a loremaster of Athel Loren?
Everything I've seen says she was but I can't say for certain as I wasn't playing when she was about.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Dutch »

Few questions, facts and personal opinions relating to the lore:

1) High magic and Dark magic both have two signatures, will lore of Athel Loren also have two? They could half-arse this by using the tree singing in its current form as 1direct dmg & 2move wood(augment?). Hope they don't take that shortcut

2) With Lore of Life and Beasts, and Dark & High magic in mind particularly, it is important the lore is stand alone and has a unique vibe. That said I expect a spell similar to Bladewind, which also puts a unit in combat with terrain. Walk between worlds would be perfect as the Hidden Path, lets see how they make this unique? Then there is myriad spells in Life and Beasts which would fit perfectly in Athel Loren. Personally think the lore will be a 50/50 split on unique new spells and reiterations. The one new spell I'd of been certain of is a summoned Wood, though this clashes with SoM. If I could create one spell it would be a bark/scaly skin augment which had varied power levels (6/5/4+)

3) I cannot predict my own valid front running lore attribute. Which irritates and excites in equal measure.

4) Finally if they create Ariel (they better!) I think she should get Ariels Blessing as a personal spell and be Loremaster Athel Loren with hefty bonuses to cast.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by WizzyWarlock »

I like the idea for the 6th spell, but I'd do it like a reverse Dwellers with a T test. So a T test for each lost wound in the unit, with a success restoring the lost wound or model. With standard Elves that'll be 50% on average, while those closer to nature will have a better chance, Dryads on a 1-4, Treekin on 1-5, Treemen only failing on a 6.

As for the rest: Conjure Forest I would put as level 5 with a higher casting value, but remove the Remains in Play. Enough casts and you can cover the board in them. Then switch the current level 5 to level 2, as +1A/+1S isn't really that much, I'd actually add +1T onto that and call it Force of Nature, or something similar, then create two other higher casting versions so:

10+ : +1A/+1S/+1T
16+ : +2A/+2S/+2T
24+: +2A/+2S/+2T - all units within 12".

The level 3 I would also remove the Remains in Play part and make it until the casters next magic phase, but also add on a 5+ Scaly Skin. Finally, the level 4 I'd make more versions of:
8+: D6+1 S6 AP
14+ 2D6+2 S6 AP
21+: 3D6+3 S6 AP

It's powerful, but what isn't in the new books?
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by iampetty »

Dalsgaard wrote:I think it is safe to say that we will get a new lore in the upcoming book.
I am curious to hear what your predictions/wishes are. I wont say I have enough gaming experience to give a qualified bid on it, but I will give it a go anyways:

Attribute: Harmony with nature. The wizard ignores miscasts on 6+

Signature: Treesinging as is, but change "partially within a forest" to within 6" of a forest.
1. The hidden path. Works as moonstone, but can be cast on any unit
2. Conjure forest. Remains in play. Place a forest within 24" Disappears if dispelled.
3. Skin of magic bark. Remains in play. The target unit gains +2 toughness and immune to flaming attacks.
4. Bow of Loren. D6+1 S6 hits, AP
5. Call of the hunt. Range 18" +1A and +1S
6. Ariels blessing. The unit restores half of lost wounds/models

It might be insanly owerpowered or really silly and weak. What do you think? How would your list look like?
Hidden Path is ok, but add something like, "free 10 inch move" if they don't happen to be in a wood. Cause otherwise that spell doesn't have an awful lot of uses.

Conjure forest would need to be a signature I think. You can place a wood anywhere within 24 inches, and any unit that touches the wood wood takes D6 strength 3 hits.

Skin of magic bark would probably need to be +1 toughness if you're going to make them immune to flaming attacks. It would just be too good for Treemen and Treekin otherwise. But you could make it a Remains in Play.

Generic magic missile? I guess. Although Strength 6 AND Armor Piercing seems a bit much.

I would dump Call of the Hunt. The evolution of the fluff has strengthened the separation between Orion and Ariel, and "The Hunt" is an Orion thing. Not an Ariel thing.

A healing spell would make sense, but the way you have it is way way WAY too good. The other healing spells in the game are D3+1 (Regrowth), D6+1 (Regrowth + Throne of Vines), D6+Wizard Level (Invocation) and D3+1 (Tomb Kings Lore Attribute). I know what you were going for, but Dwellers is a dumb spell and everyone hates that it exists. I find its best to try to ignore it in terms of talking about balance. D3+wizard level would be fair I think, and you could give them a small buff as well, such as making them Stubborn, or an extra WS for a turn or something.

I think the ultimate spell should involve attacking units with roots (as is described in the Black Library books). Something like 36-48 inch range, a unit takes D6 strength 4 hits for every rank, strength 5 if they're within 6 inches of a wood, strength 6 if they're in a wood, and their movement value is halved until after your next magic phase. It would give them some reliable long range strength, while also giving them a chance to slow down a fast unit, or potentially mulching a large unit.

As for the Lore Attribute, 6+ for miscasts seems pretty...not useful. I would say, make it a flat 6+ that is increased by nearby Athel Loren casters, and nearby woods, to a maximum of 3+.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by WizzyWarlock »

Dalsgaard wrote:Generic magic missile? I guess. Although Strength 6 AND Armor Piercing seems a bit much.
It always amuses me comments like this. Us Wood Elf players have had it tough for so long we've become resigned to it and anything better feels overpowered. D6+1 S6 AP hits is a bit much? Amber Spear is S6/S10 with D6 wounds and penetrates like a bolt thrower, no armour saves. Death's Fate of Bajuna is 2D6-T hits, wounding on 2+, no armour saves. Need I even mention Banishment from Lore of Light? Curse of the Horned Rat. 4D6 wounds, no saves, creates enemy models out of the dead. Doombolt, a signature spell no less, 2D6 S5 or boosted to 4D6 S5. Rancid Visitations - D6 S5 hits, make a toughness test or take another D6 S5 hits, continue until everything is dead or successful test.

While I don't want the Wood Elves to become overpowered, I do want a fighting chance...
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by iampetty »

WizzyWarlock wrote:
Dalsgaard wrote:Generic magic missile? I guess. Although Strength 6 AND Armor Piercing seems a bit much.
It always amuses me comments like this. Us Wood Elf players have had it tough for so long we've become resigned to it and anything better feels overpowered. D6+1 S6 AP hits is a bit much? Amber Spear is S6/S10 with D6 wounds and penetrates like a bolt thrower, no armour saves. Doombolt, a signature spell no less, 2D6 S5 or boosted to 4D6 S5.
Amber Spear will reliably kill 2, maybe 3 people at the base level. Granted, my opinion of it is sort of biased because every time I use it, it either fails or gets saved. And the higher value of Amber Spear is 15. Doombolt is base 12+. I was sort of assuming Athel Loren would be a bunch of low casting value spells, so you would try to get all four rather than throwing all your dice at one and hoping you can just out muscle your opponent with dice. A 7 or 8+ D6+1 Strength 6 is still a very good spell if it has good range. I mean, Wood Elves' lore isn't really supposed to be artillery. That's Dark Elves' forte. So having one strong burst would be fine IMO.
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Re: The new lore of Athel Loren?

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Was it in the high magic that a unit could be made Ethereal? ...or was it in the old lore of Athel Loren and just Ethereal movement or against shooting?

I like the idea of having the moonstone spell though. It would really tie in nicely with having the Forest Summoning spell.

I can't the spell attribute being ignoring a miscast on a 5+.

I liked the idea of someone on this site , about all WE casters having Treesinging anyway. Without rolling for it. Maybe that could be the attribute?! :p
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