Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

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Avian
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Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by Avian »

Given that the Pageant of Shrikes can target a character within a unit, would that targeted character be subject to a "lookout sir!" save? I would assume so given that the Pageant doesn't say that he isn't. However I think the WE book predates this rule, which effectively makes the Pageant pointless for anything except whittling down a unit a tiny bit before a combat, and frankly there are better magic items to do this.

Also, given it's not subject to the usual targeting restrictions, can it be shot into a combat and from within a combat?

Thoughts?
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by popisdead »

No LoS! and unless you are Skaven shooting at slaves you cannot fire into CC.
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by Findecano »

Avian wrote:Given that the Pageant of Shrikes can target a character within a unit, would that targeted character be subject to a "lookout sir!" save? I would assume so given that the Pageant doesn't say that he isn't. However I think the WE book predates this rule, which effectively makes the Pageant pointless for anything except whittling down a unit a tiny bit before a combat, and frankly there are better magic items to do this.

Also, given it's not subject to the usual targeting restrictions, can it be shot into a combat and from within a combat?

Thoughts?
The only attacks that automatically generate a Look out sir roll are template attacks like stone throwers, cannons and magical vortex spells. Other attacks that target characters may allow a Look out sir roll but only if they explicitly say that they do in their rules (an example of this would be the golden hounds spell in the lore of metal).
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Pigey
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a

Post by Pigey »

popisdead wrote:No LoS! and unless you are Skaven shooting at slaves you cannot fire into CC.
Which is a shame. Best archers in the world should be able to fire into CC! (picturesque)
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WizzyWarlock
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a

Post by WizzyWarlock »

popisdead wrote:No LoS! and unless you are Skaven shooting at slaves you cannot fire into CC.
Not sure, just a thought popped into my head. Isn't not firing into CC a targeting restriction? And doesn't Pageant ignore targeting restrictions?
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Mollesvinet
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by Mollesvinet »

This has come up before, as RAW then you can actually shoot into close combat. I have my doubts whether it is intended or not, sniper didn't exist back then and that is what they are describing afterwards.

Some argue that shooting into close combat can lead to non intended situations, like removing the last enemy and thus getting one of your units out of close combat. This is not different than a scattered stone thrower though.
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by Drstrangelove »

I always wondered about that too. But I've only ever taken the item once so have never felt the need to find out the answer.
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Re: Pageant of Shrikes and a "look out sir" save?

Post by Jossebuschman »

I raised this issue a while ago (as others before me probably have).
There is no satisfying answer, but my conclusion is that this is allowed.

The main question is: what are targeting restriction?
This is not clearly defined in the rulebook, nor was it in 6th ed (or 7th).
There are good arguments to suggest that not being able to shoot into combat is indeed a targeting restriction and always was, which implies that it was always the intention that it can shoot into cc.

http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24754

The best answer is probably to ask what your gaming club thinks about it. In my experience most players allow it. It isn't all that powerful to begin with.
Also, in about two weeks this whole discussion will cease to be of any import (hopefully).
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