Plastic kit predictions

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Pigey
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Pigey »

http://gamezoneminiatures.de/silvanus.html

There you go!

The pegasus should be around ;)
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by NonnoSte »

Man! I must be really dumb if I couldn't found them on their website!
thank you so much for the help.
Sorry for the brief OT.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Pigey »

No worries!

I sincerely hope that if GW makes some riders of the sort they follow the Gamezone style.. Those warhawks we have are dead-ugly...

EDIT: just thaught about eagles as MC, with not one, but two elves on them.. what do you think of that?
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by bernh »

I think we might get a Stag Rider kit, that can be used as a Lord, a Wizard or a new special character.
However, I can't see us getting a unit. Even in the books, the stags are really only used by very prominent nobility.
There are fluff text about wood elven unit called Stag Knights in Storm of Magic book.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by @allmyownbattles »

After watching the dwarf release, I'm pretty sure the wood elves will get similar treatment.

Kit One: treeman - with options for ancient/character.

Kit Two: Eternal Guard/Waywatchers.

Kit Three: Wild Riders/new cav.

Kit Four: Wardancers/uber dancers new kit.

Plus two or three characters.

The Wood Elf range is such a similar state to the dwarf one, in terms of metal and Finecast models (worse even), that I think we can rest assured the core plastics will go untouched (unless for amalgamation into duel kits). The new stuff will all be aimed at switching into plastics, other than one or two new duel add-ons.

I'm also pretty sure, after the dwarf debacle, that one or two kits will be left in metal - these will probably be the war hawks. The only way I can see this changing is if the wardancers are left in metal (as the dwarf slayers were) and the war hawks and eagles are merged into a new plastic 3+ unit, with optional parts to build a lord/hero.

If they end up getting a big release, sweet. But I think we'll get the minimum possible.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Samoht »

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Warhawks to go to plastic and be a dual kit with a new flying unit, I think they need to go plastic more than Wardancers or Waywatchers, but I think you're right that Wardancers are ripe for a dual kit with an 'uber dancer' combo.

If I could choose, I'd pick Waywatchers to stay metal.
Last edited by Samoht on 23 Feb 2014, 22:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by WizzyWarlock »

Samoht wrote:I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Warhawks to go to plastic and be a duel kit with a new flying unit, I think they need to go plastic more than Wardancers or Waywatchers, but I think you're right that Wardancers are ripe for a duel kit with an 'uber dancer' combo.

If I could choose, I'd pick Waywatchers to stay metal.
I'm the other way around, I think the Wardancers look amazing as they are. The Lord model, which is sadly no longer on sale, is probably my favorite Wood Elf miniature in the range. The Waywatchers, on the other hand, I find to be a bit too cluttered visually, and I'm not a big fan of the poses either.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Samoht »

I suppose I liked the visual flair of the old Wardancers spiked hair, I find they currently look less dynamic and dramatic, they also don't look as visually distinct from other units now. Having said that the new poses and everything else about the models is better than the older ones. I'd like a combo of old and new for them. That's not to say I don't like them, they're fine and if they don't update them I won't be disappointed.

The Waywatchers are in a similar state for me, not terrible models, could be better, they just don't feel like as much a missed opportunity as the Wardancers do.

However if neither unit had anything done I wouldn't be too bothered, the rest of our specials and rare need it much more. Aside from special characters, I also think our character range is pretty great too. We've got some great looking mages and lord choices.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by frogboy »

I'm with you on that Wizzy I don't like the current WW models. I'd like to see a dual kit with Waywatchers and scouts, people keep talking about an Eternal Guard and Waywatchers but I can't see it, EG and WW have nothing in common even if they were wearing the same clothes, which would look weird, they have completely different fighting styles and would need completely different stances and positioning of the arms ?

I think we will keep our Eternal Guard in metal, possibly a new Dual kit for the Wardancers and their new Urbre death dancers counter part. What I'd most like to see though would be New Wild Riders. (And hopefully some of the other wish listing that's been doing the rounds)

:D
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by @allmyownbattles »

Samoht wrote:I suppose I liked the visual flair of the old Wardancers spiked hair, I find they currently look less dynamic and dramatic, they also don't look as visually distinct from other units now. Having said that the new poses and everything else about the models is better than the older ones. I'd like a combo of old and new for them. That's not to say I don't like them, they're fine and if they don't update them I won't be disappointed.
Although the old Wardancers now look dated, at least they looked mean. The poses of the current ones are weird, like an elf pilates class. They're in need of the Witch Elf treatment. I'd buy those - even for the stupid price of £35.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by WizzyWarlock »

@allmyownbattles wrote:Although the old Wardancers now look dated, at least they looked mean. The poses of the current ones are weird, like an elf pilates class. They're in need of the Witch Elf treatment. I'd buy those - even for the stupid price of £35.
I would if the amount needed stayed the same. I currently have 20 and that's enough for me. The thing with GW is they're setting that price of £35 to the core range, which is outrageous.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Findecano »

WizzyWarlock wrote:
@allmyownbattles wrote:Although the old Wardancers now look dated, at least they looked mean. The poses of the current ones are weird, like an elf pilates class. They're in need of the Witch Elf treatment. I'd buy those - even for the stupid price of £35.
I would if the amount needed stayed the same. I currently have 20 and that's enough for me. The thing with GW is they're setting that price of £35 to the core range, which is outrageous.
I'm not sure what you mean "setting that price of £35 to the core range", witch elves were that price point because the box also made rare sisters of slaughter, the cost of sets seems to be slightly more complex than one price for core, one price for rare etc, but their pricing philosophy essentially comes down to charging as much as they think they can possibly get away with.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by WizzyWarlock »

Findecano wrote:I'm not sure what you mean "setting that price of £35 to the core range", witch elves were that price point because the box also made rare sisters of slaughter, the cost of sets seems to be slightly more complex than one price for core, one price for rare etc, but their pricing philosophy essentially comes down to charging as much as they think they can possibly get away with.
And that's their new trick, mixing two ranges into one so people will say exactly what you just did, "Also makes rare so it's okay.". But it's not okay. They've done the same with the Dwarf release and I can guarantee it'll be a continuing trend. Let's say they release a new box set, 10 Glade Guard or 10 Waywatchers for £35. I have 65 Glade Guard models here, that would be £245 for those models, while I only have 10 Waywatchers, so £35. But because they have rare in the box, that makes it okay? I don't think so...
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by godswearhats »

I see it as an opportunity. They launch dual kits for $50 / £35, and you get everything you need to build 20 models, except 10 torsos. What if some enterprising artists were able to sell you a set of alternate torsos for $10 / £7. Would you buy it? Then you'd be getting the full 20 models for $60, which is not a terrible deal.

We are seriously considering running a Kickstarter to do this.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Niedfaru »

godswearhats wrote:I see it as an opportunity. They launch dual kits for $50 / £35, and you get everything you need to build 20 models, except 10 torsos. What if some enterprising artists were able to sell you a set of alternate torsos for $10 / £7. Would you buy it? Then you'd be getting the full 20 models for $60, which is not a terrible deal.

We are seriously considering running a Kickstarter to do this.
Do it! I would support it. I'm sure many others would too. :D
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by frogboy »

godswearhats wrote:I see it as an opportunity. They launch dual kits for $50 / £35, and you get everything you need to build 20 models, except 10 torsos. What if some enterprising artists were able to sell you a set of alternate torsos for $10 / £7. Would you buy it? Then you'd be getting the full 20 models for $60, which is not a terrible deal.

We are seriously considering running a Kickstarter to do this.

It would be difficult to market it without infringing on GWs property and still grab people's attention to let them know what it is really used for.

dude want to buy 10 elf torsos... :confused:

dude check out these elf torsos ! You can totally use them to make stuff using GW bits and get your money's worth out of the new GW dual kit boxed sets... =I= :ninja: arrrrgh run it's the inquisition, they know it's us !!! :cry:

Good luck
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Niedfaru »

frogboy wrote:
godswearhats wrote:I see it as an opportunity. They launch dual kits for $50 / £35, and you get everything you need to build 20 models, except 10 torsos. What if some enterprising artists were able to sell you a set of alternate torsos for $10 / £7. Would you buy it? Then you'd be getting the full 20 models for $60, which is not a terrible deal.

We are seriously considering running a Kickstarter to do this.

It would be difficult to market it without infringing on GWs property and still grab people's attention to let them know what it is really used for.

dude want to buy 10 elf torsos... :confused:

dude check out these elf torsos ! You can totally use them to make stuff using GW bits and get your money's worth out of the new GW dual kit boxed sets... =I= :ninja: arrrrgh run it's the inquisition, they know it's us !!! :cry:

Good luck
Nope, after the Chapter House case, GW can no longer stop third party companies from explicitly marketing bits for their models. :D
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by valmir »

I would imagine it would depend upon the nature of the materials being made. Despite the Chapter House case, this is a massively grey area, and an area that shifts in its greyness depending upon jurisdiction. If you're making a torso, GW would have enough to claim that (a) you are infringing upon their property in terms of aspects of style, dimension and disposition (i.e., you've needed to make a product that interfaces with the existing arms and legs); and (b) your product is damaging their commercial interests. They may not win in court, but this is more than enough to force you to spend a lot of money on lawyers in order to actually get it to court.

The idea that torsos might be an "accessory", to "enhance" GW's model range would be a difficult sell. The argument that you're providing a product that they are not is simply false. If your product in any way is deemed to be copyright infringing, there is basically no fair use argument to be made.

Not saying that I don't wish this were possible, but GW have revealed themselves to be highly litigious, and the problem with civil law is that it costs money - a lot of money - to be sued, even if you should be on the winning side.
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by godswearhats »

The Chapter House case allows Chapter House to continue to sell bits that not only fit into existing GW kits, but also allows them to say that they are explicitly for those kits on their website. Check out this page for an example.

I'm not worried about the legal side any more at all. I'm more worried that people wouldn't buy them :-)
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by valmir »

godswearhats wrote:The Chapter House case allows Chapter House to continue to sell bits that not only fit into existing GW kits, but also allows them to say that they are explicitly for those kits on their website. Check out this page for an example.

I'm not worried about the legal side any more at all. I'm more worried that people wouldn't buy them :-)
Yeah, it's not really that simple. Chapter House provides a whole bunch of accessories - weapons, shoulder pads, add-ons, etc. They don't sell a single thing where you get to double the amount of miniatures you've "bought" from GW. In the case of torsos, there's a much more direct case to be made that they'd be using GW IP to make money of their own, to GW's direct detriment.

The court's judgment basically said that producing add-ons or accessories compatible with GW products, and advertising the fact that they were compatible, does not infringe upon or dilute GW's intellectual property. There is an argument to be made that producing torsos is not the same as producing an "add-on". I'm not saying necessarily that that argument is correct (indeed, there's also a compelling case to do with the customer's "right to use" the product they have purchased), but GW's legal department simply wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't litigate in a grey area like this.

Almost a third of GW's complaints against Chapter House were upheld by the court. I'd be interested to know what those actually were...

(caveat: I'm not a copyright lawyer, although I have a certain amount of professional experience in the complicated assignation of intellectual and moral rights)
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by godswearhats »

I would definitely seek legal advice before doing it.

Frankly I doubt I have the time right now!
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by valmir »

The crappy thing is that, even if you're right, it costs soooooo much money to fight a lawsuit like this. I don't know how Chapter House managed (but I got the sense at the time that their lawyers were working pro bono).

If you do do it, though, you can put me down for, like, a LOT. :D
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Dalsgaard »

So what do you think our chances are to get a dual great eagle/great owl kit? Or do we have some other chances to get a new monster?

I know the general consensus on that we are getting a treeman/ancient dualkit, but could you imagine a possible new treeman comes with another option? Like a flying tree (lame, i know)
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Gwill_of_the_Woods »

Dalsgaard wrote:So what do you think our chances are to get a dual great eagle/great owl kit? Or do we have some other chances to get a new monster?

I know the general consensus on that we are getting a treeman/ancient dualkit, but could you imagine a possible new treeman comes with another option? Like a flying tree (lame, i know)
I would want a dual kit of owls and falcons as Warhawk Riders!

Flying tree? :confused:

If they were going to split a Treeman kit it would probably be, regular treeman, special character/ancient and/or treeman as a warmachine type upgrade. That's what I think.

...Again, flying tree? :confused:

Haha! :p
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Re: Plastic kit predictions

Post by Dalsgaard »

Haha! Yeah sorry about that brainfart. I guess I was thinking of the high elves phoenix and tried to think of a BIG flyer that would fit with a treemankit. That would take some imagination from the sculptures.

I am actually not hoping for a warmachinetree. Well it had to be kinda short ranged, like even better strangleroots or something. It could be cool though with a Treeman character!

I love the idea of owls and falcons! Owls bring some magic and falcons harder hitting?
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